Cowboy Revolver, Which one ?

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I like my 357mag Uberti Hombre, only wished I would've bought 2 in each caliber (357 & 45 Colt). There was a dealer on Gunbroker that had to buy into a dealership with Beretta or Benelli. He had a load of 45 colt & 357 mag Hombre's for $250 each. Couldn't beat the price but should've bought more.

I'm curious how the Pietta 1873 revolvers are.
 
What was the issue you were addressing? (Check one):

- Dave Scovill advocates the RCBS 270 at 1,100fps out of a Blackhawk?
- Dave Scovill advocates the RCBS 270 at 1,100fps out of a New Vaquro?
- Dave Scovill advocates the RCBS 270 at 1,100fps out of a SAA Clone?
- Dave Scovill advocates the RCBS 270 at 1,100fps out of a 2nd Gen Colt?
Any of them that are available as a convertible with an ACP cylinder.
 
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Out of the two Cimmaron/Uberti guns I own this one is my favorite.
I had the custom stag grips made to fit my hand and it sure made a difference in shooting this gun.
The load I'm shooting is a 270gr WFN cast bullet on top of 12grs of HS-6 running 1100 fps thru my chronograph.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
Driftwood covered almost all of the bases.
Cimarron's Evil Roy comes with a timing / trigger pull job done by a good gunsmith and lighter (Wolff) springs. If I read all the "stuff" about the Evil Roy, it sounds like it's the only Cimarron offering that offers all of that.

On the other hand, Taylor's offers several guns with that same work already done. They call them their "Deluxe" versions. There is a Smoke Wagon and a Smoke Wagon Deluxe. There is a Ranch Hand and a Ranch Hand Deluxe. The Deluxe versions are roughyly $200.00 more than their non-Deluxe versions, virtually the same price as a Cimarron Evil Roy..

I have a thing for brass trigger guards and brass back straps. A couple years ago I bought a Uberti Cattleman for that reason. It had the V notch rear sight, it wasn't perfectly timed. I put a set of Wolff springs in it which made a big improvement, but the trigger still had noticeable creep and that did nothing for the timing. I sent it off to a very reputable gunsmith highly recommended on the SASS forum to time it, do a super trigger job on it, give it an 11 degree forcing cone and make the rear sight a square-bottomed notch. That gun now runs like a jeweled watch, has a light crisp trigger with zero creep and is very accurate. It does not have a retracting firing pin and it does have four clicks, but the first click is very faint. The Uberti's have a safety feature not found on original Colts: As you squeeze the trigger and let the hammer down, wait until you hear the first click, then release the trigger and continue letting the hammer down. The hammer will the come to rest about 1/8" away from the frame (the firing pin is not protruding through the frame) and the trigger is locked until you cock the gun again. So it is "safe" to carry with 6 rounds loaded. I think something about this feature "mutes" that first click when cocking.

OK, so there I was with two old-model Ruger Vaqueros in 44 mag (44 Special for SASS matches) and one nice Uberti in 45 Colt. I found that I far prefer the Uberti. So I just recently bought a Taylor's Ranch Hand Deluxe (brass trigger guard and back strap). It is perfectly timed, has a light trigger with zero creep, and the square-cut rear sight notch. It runs every bit as well as the Cattleman I had worked over. It has the same safety feature as the Cattleman and its first click is also faint. It is a beautiful gun, nice color in the case hardening and stunning deep blue. Haven't fired it yet, so can't attest to its accuracy. And ... here it is.
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And here is my other Uberti (Cattleman) with its figured maple grips. I am right now fitting a set of white corian grips on the Ranch Hand that will be shaped just like the maple gunfighter grips on the Cattleman.
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The Uberti's have a safety feature not found on original Colts: As you squeeze the trigger and let the hammer down, wait until you hear the first click, then release the trigger and continue letting the hammer down. The hammer will the come to rest about 1/8" away from the frame (the firing pin is not protruding through the frame) and the trigger is locked until you cock the gun again. So it is "safe" to carry with 6 rounds loaded. I think something about this feature "mutes" that first click when cocking.


Back up the bus a minute. With a regular Uberti, or a Colt for that matter, if you lower the hammer to the first click, the so called 'safety cock' notch, and release the trigger, the hammer is then back about 1/8" or so. This is the old 'safety' position of a Colt, and it is absolutely not safe to carry the gun fully loaded with six rounds and the hammer down on a live cartridge.

Absolutely not safe. Drop the gun on its hammer and likely as not the skimpy 'safety cock' notch, or the sear itself, will shear off and the gun may fire. And it may be pointing up at you.

For a while Uberti was building a hammer block into the hammer. It looked like this. The part under the firing pin. This feature did make the revolver safe to carry with six live rounds in it. But not all Ubertis come with that feature.


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I used to have a Cattleman with that feature, but I don't own it any more. The Cattleman I still have came with the two position cylinder pin that acted as a kludgey safety. I removed it because as a safety device the two position cylinder pin is next to useless. With the two position cylinder pin replaced by a conventional cylinder pin, the gun must be carried with only five rounds in the cylinder and the hammer MUST be down on an empty chamber.

Very recently Uberti introduced a new hammer and trigger mechanism that employs a retractable firing pin, but that is a completely different story.
 
Well, Driftwood, I'm not talking about just drawing the hammer back to that first click. Do that and you can still pull the trigger and drop the hammer. The "safety" I'm talking about is much more positive than that and the trigger is locked so it can't be pulled. But the very reason you mentioned is why I have "safety" in quotes. Strike the hammer hard enough and likely something in the mechanism will break and the gun could still fire. But it's still a lot safer than having the firing pin resting on a primer or the hammer just sitting in that first-click notch. The dude in this video is talking about what I'm talking about at about 8:04 where he loads all 6, pulls the hammer all the way back then slowly lets it down until he hears the first click then releases the trigger and lets it down the rest of the way. This is totally different from letting the hammer down and then pulling it back into that first click.
https://youtu.be/OpucW40fFgs
 
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Well, Driftwood, I'm not talking about just drawing the hammer back to that first click. Do that and you can still pull the trigger and drop the hammer. The "safety" I'm talking about is much more positive than that and the trigger is locked so it can't be pulled. But the very reason you mentioned is why I have "safety" in quotes. Strike the hammer hard enough and likely something in the mechanism will break and the gun could still fire. But it's still a lot safer than having the firing pin resting on a primer or the hammer just sitting in that first-click notch. The dude in this video is talking about what I'm talking about at about 8:04 where he loads all 6, pulls the hammer all the way back then slowly lets it down until he hears the first click then releases the trigger and lets it down the rest of the way. This is totally different from letting the hammer down and then pulling it back into that first click.

Oh my goodness, where to start?

If you listen to the guy in that video, he clearly states the Smokewagon he is holding has a hammer block built into the hammer. The hammer block he is talking about is the same one in this grainy photo I posted earlier. You can see the part of the hammer block mechanism just below the firing pin. So yes, for Uberti hammers equipped with that hammer block you can load six into the chamber. I used to have an Uberti Cattleman with this hammer block built into the hammer. To tell you the truth, despite what the video says, and what the owner's manual says, I would not trust it. I remember how tiny the parts were and if you dropped the gun on its hammer, chances are something might break.

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Well, Driftwood, I'm not talking about just drawing the hammer back to that first click. Do that and you can still pull the trigger and drop the hammer.

That is simply incorrect. I don't know any more subtle way to say it.

Let's take a look at some Colt parts. Uberti Cattleman parts without the built in hammer block are basically the same. There are two arrows in the photo. One is pointing to the tip of the trigger, which is called the sear. The other arrow is pointing to the so called 'safety cock' notch on the hammer. When you pull the hammer back to the first click, the sear drops into that first notch. Notice there is an overhanging lip on the notch that traps the sear. If you try to pull the trigger while the sear is in that first notch, you cannot pull the trigger, the sear is trapped. The hammer will not drop. If the hammer drops, something is broken. Now notice how thin the sear is. And notice how fragile the overhanging lip on the 'safety cock' notch is, as well as the overhanging lip on the next notch, the half cock notch.

If you squeeze the trigger hard enough with the sear trapped in the 'safety cock' notch, you can break the lip right off. In that case, the hammer will drop if you pull the trigger from the 'safety cock' notch. By squeezing the trigger very hard you might instead snap the sear off the trigger, ruining the trigger. Same thing with the half cock notch.

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Generations of single action revolver shooters have known that the so called 'safety cock' notch on the hammer of a Colt, or an Uberti, is not a reliable safety. Keep a live round under the hammer, with the sear trapped in the 'safety cock' notch, and drop the gun on its hammer, and one of those fragile parts is likely to break, discharging the firearm. Its even been known to happen when a cowboy slung the stirrup of his saddle down and the stirrup struck the hammer. Heavy enough of a blow to fire the gun and send a round into the cowboy's leg.

It could happen with the old Ruger Three Screw single action revolvers too. Even though all the leaf springs had been replaced by coil springs, they still had the same three notches on the hammer. I remember reading an article by Mike Venturino years ago where he stated he arrived at a local range to find a man lying on his back, covered in blood. The man had been shooting an old Three Screw Ruger, and it had discharged when he dropped it. The man died before they got him to the hospital.

Here is the hammer from an old Three Screw Blackhawk. Look carefully and you can see the over hanging lips on the 'safety cock' notch and the half cock notch. They are just as fragile as the overhanging lips on the notches of the Colt hammer. That's why Ruger discontinued making the Three Screw Blackhawks in the 1970s and completely redesigned the mechanism to include a Transfer Bar. A Ruger equipped with a Transfer Bar is safe to carry completely loaded with six rounds. Drop it on its hammer and nothing happens because the Transfer Bar is not in position to transfer the blow from the hammer to the firing pin.

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Well, Driftwood, we must live in different universes with different realities. :)
All I know is that I have two Ubertis and they both operate exactly the same.
Neither one has a hammer block like in your pics!
On both of them, if you let the hammer all the way down and then pull it back one click, the hammer will stay there a little bit away from the frame, but it is easy to pull the trigger and drop the hammer.
On the other hand, if you pull the hammer all the way back to full cock, then squeeze the trigger and gently let the hammer down until you hear a click, then release the trigger and continue to gently let the hammer down, it will come to rest a little bit farther away from the frame than the other way, plus the trigger is solidly locked and you cannot pull it hard enough to release the hammer, and the hammer is solidly blocked (somehow) from moving forward.

I would never trust it enough to carry it that way, and will never load more than 5 rounds with the hammer on an empty chamber.

Conversely, I will never trust any semi-auto with a round in the chamber either.
 
Conversely, I will never trust any semi-auto with a round in the chamber either.

I have no idea why you don't; "different universes with different realities" I suppose. :) Would you "trust" carrying a double-action revolver with all chambers loaded? There's nothing wrong with being "too" safe, if that's possible, but most men can rely on a belt to hold their britches up without an attendant suspenders adjunct. ;)
 
Yes, we must live indifferent universes.

The hammers on my Colts and the one Uberti I still own work exactly as I described. It doesn't matter if I pull the hammer back to the 'safety cock' position from being all the way down, or if I lower it there from full cock. Either way, the trigger is trapped by the overhanging lip on the cocking notch. The trigger cannot be pulled and the hammer does not move from the 'safety cock' position.

Same thing with an old Three Screw Ruger.
 
jimku said:
"On both of them, if you let the hammer all the way down and then pull it back
one click, the hammer will stay there a little bit away from the frame, but it
is easy to pull the trigger and drop the hammer."
If you can do that -- pull the trigger while it's engaged in the 1st/safety notch,
you have a defective hammer.

Hie thee to a gunsmith ASAP. ;)
 
Well, dgludwig, I own several double-action revolvers. I never fire them double-action, only single-action because I can't hit anything beyond about 15 feet double action with any of them :o And I never carry them in a concealed manner where there's a chance of snagging the trigger when holstering it or the trigger getting snagged by other stuff in a pocket.

I have a Kahr MK40 Elite for concealed carry that is DAO. It has a pretty long trigger pull and the action is never cocked until the trigger is nearly full back. I often carry it in a vest pocket. But that long trigger pull isn't stiff enough that I can be absolutely guaranteed of knowing if I happened to snag it while putting it in that pocket. Small as that likelihood is, it just makes me exceedingly nervous. It only takes a half a second to rack the slide, and I would rather contend with that than with accidentally shooting myself. Without a round in the chamber that gun is absolutely safe even if I did snag the trigger. That is not true with a double action revolver. And no, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it beyond about 15 feet, but self-defense probably has about a 90% chance of being up close and personal so I don't consider that an issue.

Yes, I probably could invest a grand or two (maybe three) in ammo and LEARN to master a DA trigger, but I just don't see a need big enough to justify that..
 
Very Nice.

When you get it, pull back the hammer and see if it has the hammer block safety mounted on the hammer. The hammer block is the part just under the firing pin. If the hammer block is not there, treat it exactly as I described.

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Nice pick , I have the same revolver . Now to find some leather .

My Smoke Wagon Deluxe does not have that firing pin block on the hammer .
 
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Well, dgludwig, I own several double-action revolvers. I never fire them double-action, only single-action because I can't hit anything beyond about 15 feet double action with any of them And I never carry them in a concealed manner where there's a chance of snagging the trigger when holstering it or the trigger getting snagged by other stuff in a pocket.

I'm not sure how much experience you have with carrying a double-action revolver concealed, but the likelihood of ever "snagging" the trigger of an uncocked da revolver and causing it to fire inadvertently is extremely slim if not darn near impossible. The hammer might snag on clothing, impeding a draw, but a da revolver, even with all chambers charged, is a relatively safe mode of carry.

Yes, I probably could invest a grand or two (maybe three) in ammo and LEARN to master a DA trigger, but I just don't see a need big enough to justify that..

Not nearly that difficult in my experience. And with a modicum of practice and with some training, a knot on the skinny side of the barn would be in danger of being hit by a bullet fired from a double-action revolver.

But, it's certainly not my business to tell you how safe you feel you need to be in order to feel comfortable in carrying a handgun for self-defense. But I have to make the point that if you insist on carrying any pistol with no round in the chamber, you'd better hope that you will always have both hands available in order to put the gun in action.
 
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