Cowboy Revolver, Which one ?

My mistake in wording , it is called a retractable firing pin on the Cattleman II . The firing pin protrudes when pull the trigger and retracts when you take your finger off the trigger . It does not have the first small click notch with this system , the notch that is the safety notch on the other models , so you only have 3 clicks now and all of their SAA are going to this system by the end of this year I was told .

I do like the 4 click models better than the Vaquero's ,but not the retractable firing pin models .

If you want an Uberti that is more like the insides of a Colt don't get the Cattleman II or any that have the retractable firing pin .
 
Both Uberti's -- the 44-40 and the newest 32-20 are "New Model".
In that they have a spring-loaded button retainer on the cylinder
pin and crescent-shaped ejector rod tab.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/uberti-cattleman-single-action/

But then Taylors describes these exact features:
A New Model frame includes a steel, forged frame with widened
sights, spring-retained cylinder pin, and modern crescent shaped
ejector tab.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand...eries/1873-s-a-cattleman-new-model-frame.html

On neither does the firing pin automatically retract when the trigger
is released, and both have four clicks.


Someone make me smart here....,
 
Leaning toward the SmokeWagon,
Does it have the retractable firing pin ?

Also what say you? 4.75" or 5.5"
Which balances better ?
 
Howdy

There are several confusing terms being bandied about in this thread. Perhaps I can add a little bit of clarity.

'New Model' 'Old Model' Uberti

When the Colt Single Action Army first came out in 1873, the cylinder pin was held in place by a screw that angled up from the front of the frame. You can see the screw in this photo of an old Colt. It is at the front of the frame just under the cylinder pin. Notice how subtle the screw is, mostly buried in the frame of the gun. Colts from this era are said to have the Black Powder Frame. More about that in a little bit.

PR15293c__63314_zpskif8bsfh.jpg






Colts from this era had what is known as a bullseye ejector rod handle. Basically the shape of a donut with a hole in the center.

14395886_12_zpsn4chmg6z.jpg






The problem with the old angled screw was you needed a screwdriver to take the cylinder out of the gun for cleaning. And in the Black Powder era, you needed to clean the cylinder pretty often. So in 1892 Colt started phasing in the modern transverse, spring loaded cylinder pin latch on a few target models. By 1896 it was a standard feature.

Black%20Powder%20Bevel_zpsw4ze6fxz.jpg






At some point, I'm not really sure when, Colt changed the shape of the ejector rod handle to the present crescent shape.

Crescent%20Ejector%20Rod%20Handle%2002_zpsuo5gbcvw.jpg




OK. So Uberti or Taylors, or somebody is playing around with terms here. What they are calling the New Model is simply the way the Colt has been made for well over 100 years, with the spring loaded cylinder pin latch and the crescent shaped ejector rod handle. The 'Old Model' is what they are calling the guns with the Black Powder frame now. Uberti has cashed in on the appeal of the older design, mostly because of the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting, and is building some of their replicas of the SAA with the old fashioned Black Powder Frame, with the angled screw and bullseye ejector rod handle.


But take a look at this websight again. Notice how Uberti has changed the shape of the angled screw from the original. It is now a big, ugly, knurled screw that sticks far out of the frame, nothing like the original design.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/uberti-cattleman-single-action/


The reason is obvious. The screw head sticks out from the frame and is knurled so you don't need a screw driver to remove it, supposedly you can grab it with your fingers and remove it if it has not been torqued down too much. Personally, I think anybody who buys this design is kidding themselves if they think it is duplicating the old Black Powder Frame design. You can buy a replacement screw that duplicates the design of the original, but what's the point? Then you go back to needing a screwdriver to remove the cylinder. The transverse spring loaded design has been around for a long time, and it works fine and you don't need a tool to remove the cylinder pin if you want to wipe off the cylinder and the cylinder pin at the range.

But I digress.

One other thing. Shooters ask all the time if they have to shoot Black Powder only in a revolver made with the old fashioned Black Powder frame. If it is an original Colt, yes, absolutely. Colt did not warranty the Single Action Army for Smokeless Powder until 1900, several years after the modern transverse spring loaded latch appeared. But the modern replicas with the Black Powder Frame made with modern steel are perfectly fine for Smokeless Powder.



"Clicks"

What is it with guys who have to hear four clicks when they cock the hammer? Do they really think that makes the gun better? I have 1st Gen Colts and 2nd Gen Colts that have all four clicks. I have an Uberti Cattleman that has all four clicks. I have Ruger Three Screws that have four clicks. I have Rugers I have converted with half cock hammers that have three clicks. And I have Ruger New Models that only have two clicks. The only time you can hear all four clicks is when you are fondling the gun while watching an old Western on TV. At the range, if you hear all the clicks you are not paying attention to your shooting, and are cocking the hammer awfully slow.

Just my opinion of course, do with it what you will.




I cannot comment much on the newest Uberti design with the firing pin that withdraws into the hammer when the trigger is released. I first saw a video about it back last spring I think. I have not seen one yet. I doubt if I would buy one, but I don't buy many new guns these days anyways.

Here is the video I saw about the new Uberti design back in March of 2016. The discussion about the new hammer design appears about half way through.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbnlwovDTw8


Here is Uberti's blurb about the new design. Note: This video incorrectly mentions Transfer Bar technology. This design does not use a Transfer Bar in the sense that Ruger uses a Transfer Bar. It is more properly an actuator bar that shoves the firing pin forward when the trigger is pulled. When the trigger is released a spring retracts the firing pin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecOGRmMtFow


Rugers: the 'original model' Vaquero was manufactured from 1993 until 2005. It was nothing more than the standard Blackhawk model with the top strap recontoured to the shape of a Colt and the adjustable sight removed. Had the same Transfer Bar type of action as all New Model Rugers making it completely safe to carry with six rounds under the hammer. The 'original model' Vaquero was discontinued in 2005 with the introduction of the New Vaquero. (A really dumb choice of names, what are they going to call the next one, the Newer Vaquero?) The New Vaquero is simply a scaled down version of the older model. The old Blackhawk design was larger in size than a Colt, and the older Vaquero model was the same size. The New Vaquero more closely duplicates the dimensions of the Colt. As with all Rugers, there are no leaf springs inside a New Vaquero, all have been replaced with coil springs. this also increases the part count because all the coil springs need a plunger to transfer its energy to the part is works. Other parts of the mechanism of a Ruger are radically different than the old Colt design too, particularly the way the cylinder stop is actuated. Rugers can be a handful to take apart and get back together again, but there are excellent videos on the Ruger website showing how to do it. Does a Ruger feel different than a Colt? Of course it does. But I can tell you I bought my first Blackhawk in 1975, and never felt that it was a particularly clunky gun.


Leaning toward the SmokeWagon,
Does it have the retractable firing pin ?

I'm pretty sure no, but why not call up Taylors and ask?

Also what say you? 4.75" or 5.5"
Which balances better ?

Completely subjective decision. It's up to you, you will have to handle them to decide. There were three standard barrel lengths for the SAA, 7 1/2" 5 1/2", and 4 3/4". The most popular barrel length was 5 1/2". Personally, I never much cared for the appearance of the 5 1/2" barrel, always looked boring to me. I like the extremes.

SecondGens_zps1cfdcbb0.jpg



Two other things. Some of these replicas are sold with finishes they call 'charcoal blue' or various funky names. A very bright, almost robin's egg blue. It is not a robust finish, I had a Cattleman with that finish and within a year the blue had all worn off the backstrap simply from the sweat of my hand. Modern blues are much more robust.

Also, be sure what type of rear sight you are getting. Many of the modern replicas come with a narrow 'V' type rear sight, just like on the early Colts. Much more difficult to sight in than a more modern squared off rear sight.

This photo shows the squared off rear sight of a 2nd Gen Colt on the left, and the 'V' groove of an Uberti Cattleman on the right. Even though the 'V' groove is more authentic to the older designs, I find the squared off 2nd Gen rear sight much easier to use with my old eyes.

2ndGenColtandUbertiCattleman_zpsbe079bb7.jpg
 
Negative.
I love it when people quote magazine articles to me like I haven't read them a million times. I'm arguing what you said, not the article. The basis for that theory is the fact that those guns are also available as 45 ACP convertibles and the ACP runs at 21kpsi. The Uberti replicas are available as convertibles too. To say that the Ruger is 50% stronger is just incorrect.


It's a cowboy gun. Why would you want to push the .45 Colt up to 20k PSI?
No, it's a single action revolver and it can be used for any of a number of purposes. Some people like to use them for things other than cowboy action matches. :rolleyes:


Some of these replicas are sold with finishes they call 'charcoal blue' or various funky names. A very bright, almost robin's egg blue. It is not a robust finish, I had a Cattleman with that finish and within a year the blue had all worn off the backstrap simply from the sweat of my hand. Modern blues are much more robust.
That's because it's not actually charcoal blue. It's nitre blue and nitre blue is a very fragile finish. Real charcoal bluing is the finish that was on the original guns and it is actually more durable than "modern blue".
 
I love it when people quote magazine articles to me like I haven't read them a million times.
I'm arguing what you said, not the article. The basis for that theory is the fact that those guns
are also available as 45 ACP convertibles and the ACP runs at 21kpsi. The Uberti replicas
are available as convertibles too. To say that the Ruger is 50% stronger is just incorrect.
Are you telling me that I can run the Uberti 45 Colts at New Vaquero pressures ?
(Inquiring minds want to know) :D
 
I do not know why people want to push any gun beyond pressure's it was designed for!

TrailBoss work just fine in the Colt 45 and Unique comes in a close second.

If I want more performance than those loadings - the Super Blackhawk comes out.
 
Are you telling me that I can run the Uberti 45 Colts at New Vaquero pressures ?
(Inquiring minds want to know)
If you're one of the thousands of people who have a Uberti with an auxiliary cylinder in 45 ACP, you're already running at "New Vaquero pressures". :rolleyes:
 
.45 Colt cylinder
As far as pressures are concerned, I'm thinking the frame is not the issue.
It is the fact that the chamber walls are thinner on the Uberti 1873, so the cylinder can not take the same pressures as the Ruger New Vaquero.
I don't need it to, I just want to have a nice revolver to play with.

On a side note, I checked two Cimerron Evil Roy's today, one .357 and one .45 Colt. Both are Beautiful, however the .45 had a B/C gap of .011 :eek:
The .357 was .006
Throats on the .45 were .453 - .454

I still think I am going to order a SmokeWagon, just gotta decide 4.75" or 5.5"
 
SmokeWagon,... just gotta decide 4.75" or 5.5"
Pick up & handle both lengths if you possibly can.

The longer 5½" ain't bad at all. Pretty darn good all-round balance.
But the 4¾", Well... the 4¾ just feels like part of your hand.
;)
 
It is the fact that the chamber walls are thinner on the Uberti 1873, so the cylinder can not take the same pressures as the Ruger New Vaquero.
Cylinders are the same size. Actually both are slightly larger than a Colt SAA, yet the Colt is deemed safe for those loads as well.
 
Maybe you need to read more carefully in your Handloader magazines because Dave Scovill has been writing about his 270 grain semi wadcutter at 1100ft/sec loads for years. He designed the RCBS 270SAA bullet.
 
I have a the Smoke Wagon Deluxe with a 5 1/2" barrel . A bought it after looking for a Colt with a 5 1/2" barrel for a year . I am not sorry that I bought it . I compared the action to the Uberti Cattleman my brother just got and it feels a lot better , but his shoots just fine . He bought it over the Smoke Wagon because of the price and he wanted smooth grips . I doubt I would buy a Colt now since I already have the Smoke Wagon , if I ever saw one in .45 with a 5 1/2" barrel at MSRP price .
 
I was unaware that the Colt SAA is rated/equivalent for NewVaquero Tier-II pressures.
[DJ, jump in here]

I'm not going to get dragged into the can of worms of what each brand of revolvers is rated for. Rated by whom? What body has done progressive pressure tests to destruction of instrumented cylinders? I stay within SAAMI recommendations of Maximum pressure and that is all I have to say on the subject.
 
Maybe you need to read more carefully in your Handloader magazines because
Dave Scovill has been writing about his 270 grain semi wadcutter at 1100ft/sec
loads for years. He designed the RCBS 270SAA bullet.
I'm confused as to your point here.

What was the issue you were addressing? (Check one):

- Dave Scovill advocates the RCBS 270 at 1,100fps out of a Blackhawk?
- Dave Scovill advocates the RCBS 270 at 1,100fps out of a New Vaquro?
- Dave Scovill advocates the RCBS 270 at 1,100fps out of a SAA Clone?
- Dave Scovill advocates the RCBS 270 at 1,100fps out of a 2nd Gen Colt?
 
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I have Colt, Ruger and two Uberti Single actions, both of my Uberti guns has had a pretty steady diet of Tier Two loads with no ill effects to either pistol.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
I may be mistaken but I believe the New Vaq has the same pressure rating as the Uberti. It's a smaller gun than the Old Vaq which will handle a lot more pressure. The Rugers I don't care for because of the way the action works and when you get really close they don't look much like a Colt. I have a Uberti/Cimarron in 44-40 that isn't going anywhere. Early style frame and ejector rod with a hammer mounted firing pin and four clicks. It does have a hammer block safety I don't care for but it's not too noticeable. You can see it just under the firing pin.

100_4902_zpswgde0yai.jpg
 
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