Country Road Scenario

I don't have a CCW, but I do have a rifle for the occasional hunting trip.

If I'm coming back from a hunt and see this, I would stop at least 20 yards away (if possible, more), prone out, and shoot the guy going for the gun.

Then the guy with the club.

Then I'm getting in my car and getting the hell out of there. No calls on the cellphone.

The reasons for the above actions.

The criminals are presenting an obvious lethal threat/intent, and thus lethal force is appropriate. And as one of the major gun rules states:

Don't point your gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy.

If I'm pulling my rifle out, I'm not doing it to try to intimidate or warn off. It is a weapon, designed to kill, and that's what I use it for.

The man grabbing the gun is the greatest threat. Both because he could return my fire, and because he could instantly kill the officer. Also, if I shot the man with the club first, the other one could take cover behind the officer while still going for the gun.

The man with the club is standing, thus an easier target to hit since he isn't going to be able to take cover behind the officer before I can work the bolt for a second shot.

After they're both down, I'm leaving ASAP.

I don't know if the deputy had already called for backup which may roll up on the scene and see me there with a rifle and 2 (presumably) dead men and a down officer. I'd be just as likely to be shot at as congratulated. No thank you.

I also don't want the hassle that's inevitably going to follow. Wheter I'm cleared or not, there will be legal hassles involved that I would rather not deal with.

That's why no call on the cellphone since that can be traced. The deputy will either recover and get help on his radio, or a passing motorist will.

My grandfather was CHP, so I would certainly have wanted someone to help him in such a situation, but I'm also not going to expose myself to the whims of the CAlifornia legal system where it's a crapshoot on what the DA is going to do.

I would feel remorse for having to kill, but the situation wouldn't leave me any other moral options, in my opinion.

If I don't have my rifle with me (the usual situation) then I'm doing a U-turn and speed dialing 911 constantly till I get a connection. Then situation, location, description. Not having a firearm on me, I wouldn't be expected to attempt to intervene, thus no liability. Thank the screwed up legal system for that.
 
More likely than not, there wouldn't be a bullet to be found. A 30-06 A-Partition is likely to go completely through the felons and into the forest, assuming it doesn't hit a car.

And even with a bullet, that doesn't do them any good without other evidence like a license plate # or vehicle description to lead them to the rifle to match it to, does it?

And the rifle would be slagged with an oxy/acetylene torch as soon as I get home and dumped in VERY deep hole in one of the many abandoned mines that dot the hills. I'm not fanatically attached enough to my rifle to keep evidience around. Same for the couple of boxes of ammo.

If destroying my gun so I can remain a free man to take care of my family makes me a criminal after having done the right thing, then I guess I'd be a criminal and proud of it.
 
All I know is that I'd rather explain to anyone why I stopped and helped than try to explain to my face in the mirror why I didn't. St. Michael would stand with me on this one, no matter what the outcome.
 
CMichael,

No disrespect intended. From all of your response to this thread and all of the other threads that you have responded to, that I am aware of, you make it plain that you have no practical experience with the exercise of force that may have the potential to prove fatal. And that is okay, as I said, I mean no disrespect.

As a general rule, if two or more people begin to beat on a person that they know is trained in the employment of potentially deadly force, they will not stop until that opponent is dead.

In the hypothetical posed by this thread, the police officer has only a few more seconds to live. Drive by and make the call if that is what is best for you. I mean that sincerely. But please don't bother to go back, the BG's will be long gone, as will the police officer.

Peace
 
We had a variant on this theme on I-20 in West Texas, about 20 years ago. A deer hunter and his son, headed home from camp, saw a Highway Patrolman and a driver by the side of a stopped car. The DH, in his mirror, thought he saw a struggle begin.

He stopped to watch, some 200 yards up the road. About the time he exited his car, he saw the driver of the stopped car shoot the Patrolman.

He got out his .243 and killed the murderer. He then used the patrol car's radio to call in.

He got quite an award from law enforcement, with statewide appreciation. I'd venture that he's got a "get out of jail, free" card insofar as traffic laws, as well...

Back to this scenario: I live in a similar area. LEO backup can be over an hour. Given the circumstances of the very first post, I'd use my truck as a shield; high beams, etc., etc., and yell, "Freeze!" Absent instaneous frost, I'd shoot until common sense said the situation was under control.

I'd like to believe that 50+ years of pistol shooting would allow me to not hit the officer! Sheesh! (If, weaponless, they took off running, I wouldn't shoot. I'd find them, later. It's my turf. No locals would do such a thing to a LEO, and "tourons" don't know the country.)

Were this in the days before Texas' CHL law, I'd have used the same pistol I use now. :D (Some 80% of CHL licensees did NOT buy a new pistol for their carry.)

Art
 
Having lost a very close friend and co-worker in a similar situation I would like to think that everyone would step forward and try to assist the officer. In the case of my friend, a bystander observed the assault (it was 2 on 1) and rather than stopping and assisting the deputy, or at least honking or yelling out I am going to go call for help, he drove on home ("it was just another 5 minutes up the road I figured he would be ok for that long") and called 911. By the time we arrived the BGs had disarmed and killed my friend with his own weapon.
 
grab 870 behind truck seat loaded 8 rds of #4 buck, lock and load and fire killing first guy who probably HAS the gun out since you saw him reaching for it,then if the other doesn't stop beating leo
or comes at me he's dead,I'm SURE any leo that was in that situation would be very gratefull, plus CLEO and governer. doubt
any charges would be placed on me.one or two seconds leo could be dead,this is where moral obligation and LAWS don't jive!:cool:
 
I agree with CMicheal in that this is a much uglier situation than most are giving it credit for. This thing will work out one of four ways if you hop out and yell, “FREEZE!”

1) The BGs stop, lay down, and wait for you to take further action
2) BGs run away
3) BG1 rushes you to give time for BG2 to get the gun
4) BG2 gets the gun loose and has it pointed at you

1) Is really the most complicated. How do you secure the scene? You should assume these two are only on the ground until they can think up a way to get you disarmed, and possibly pick up a second gun. Will they wait around for you to cuff them? Maybe that’s how the deputy wound up face down on the pavement. Maybe you can radio in from the squad car. BUT, if you’re in a cell phone dead zone, you could also be in a dead zone for the police radio as well. Both rely on line-of-sight to a tower (could be the same tower!).
2) Almost as bad as #1. How do you treat the officer? How do you call it in (see #1 about the radio)? You’ll have to stay there covering the woods (because those guys are still out there!) until another motorist comes along. Remember, its at night in the woods so they could be less than 20' or so away.
3) Not bad because BG1 is justifying deadly force to be used on both of them
4) Gunfight. Really BAD!

Also, in this situation you don’t know if BG1 had a gun and he’s just beating the cop for fun before he shoots him.

I agree with nbk2000. Dust them both. It’s your word against whom? If the police radio doesn’t work, go back to civilization and call from a payphone. Do it anonymously so BG1’s and BG2’s family members don’t come out of the woodwork and try to sue you for everything you’re worth. It also allows me to administer first aid to the cop. Hopefully he won’t remember too much about me if he’s bad enough to need it. My gun hits the nearest lake.

If the cop calls to me I’ll hang around. I’ll say they charged me and I used my gun to “stop” them. The cop was delirious, didn’t remember they attacked, etc. Whatever. Lawyers watch too many “Gunsmoke” reruns and think you can shoot the gun out of the BG’s hand.
:confused:
 
My wife scolded me for my positon on this. So if I do attack this is what I will do.

I would park directly in front. Turn on my brights. Use the car door for covern. Shoot them both. I would wait until the guy near the officer stands up so I can get a clean shot. I don't want to hit the police officer.

Michael
 
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