Country of Origin - effect when buying a handgun?
- Thread starter simonrichter
- Start date
Because the 7.65mm Walther "hits like a brick through a plate glass window"....
Ian Fleming might have known what looked cool, and how to write a great sounding line, but he basically didn't know squat about guns. The Bond movies, I put in two broad categories, the early ones, where the at least tried to stay somewhat close to the Bond that Fleming created, (which seemed to go away with the Rodger Moore movies...) and the later ones, where you just have an over the top action hero called James Bond, who is more or less British...
Country of origin matters a great deal to me, when I am buying historical handguns. New Production? I prefer to buy American, if I can find the features I want. Also the mild patriotic desire for my money to benefit Americans first, if possible. And the fact that, if I do have issues, it get handled in the US, under US laws.
I do have my unreasonable personal standards though. I won't buy a French gun because..well... its French!
I do buy Nazi marked guns. Rather fond of them, in fact. Pieces of a history that should NEVER be forgotten!! (Plus, no evil Nazis are gonna be able to use them while I got 'em!!
)I have one South American gun, a Systema Colt, and its on a par with a commercial Colt Govt model of the era.
I have Russian, US, German, British, Japanese, Belgian and Spanish guns, and guns from I'm not sure where.
What the gun IS matters more than the country of origin, BUT, the country of origin plays a part in what the gun is!
lee n. field
New member
My last four (because the order gets fuzzy in my mind past that),
Philippines (RIA 1911)
Croatia (XDS)
US (S&W)
and Croatia again, an XD.
Looking back I've had guns from all sorts of places. Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia, Russia, China, Brazil, Argentina, Austria, India (Ishapore Enfield), England, Spain. About half the current horde is US made, split between Ruger and S&W.
United Stateist guns haven't been notably better or worse than those made elsewhere, even in the oddball places one does not normally think of for their industrial capacity.
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Answer to OP's question: Yes. The Swiss make excellent watches. The Americans make, or have made, some of the finest handguns. The Italians make nice shotguns.
Some will point to the Germans making some of the finest guns. Maybe Korth, but overall, I'd say there are far more high-end gun manufacturers in the US than in Germany.
Some will point to the Germans making some of the finest guns. Maybe Korth, but overall, I'd say there are far more high-end gun manufacturers in the US than in Germany.
zincwarrior
New member
Like everything, if there is a quality domestic manufactured item I will take it. By manufactured I mean actually made, not just assembled.
Having said that I've never bought a dern ferrener gun.
First, I am not aware of Kreighoff Merkel or Hartman and Weiss making any handguns. But I would offer the following Made in the USA:
Smith and Wesson performance center guns
Les Baer
STI
Wilson Combat
Ed Brown
Christensen Arms
Colt's Python (obviously discontinued) but Colt's custom shop still turns out some nice handguns
Maybe even Boberg, Rohrbaugh, and Seecamp for the pocket-auto makers
I would put most of those makers in the same class as Korth. Sig, Walther, Glock - mostly made in the US anyway, but I wouldn't put any of them up thee with the high-end makers.
I've probably failed to mention a number of other US manufacturers who make equally fine handguns.
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JT-AR-MG42
New member
.
Well, they did during WWII.
Having acquired Erfurt's production tooling from Simpson (Suhl) in 1935, Kreighoff made
P.08s under Luftwaffe contract until the end of the war.
Since most ended up in the channel or buried in the rubble at Monte Cassino,
Kreighoff Lugers (esp. 1940 - 1944)
are pretty hard to find and a lot harder to fund!
JT
This is a yes, and no, kind of thing. Being slightly at odds with the "common knowledge" that P.08 production ended in 42, so I had to do a little digging...
Kreighoff got a contract for 10,000 P.08s for the Luftwaffe and began production in 1934. By 1937 they had "made components for" 13,580 pistols. The overrun was "in anticipation of future contracts".
It appears that the contracted 10,000 were delivered by 1937. Between 37 and 44, approximately 2000 of the overrun guns were also delivered to the Luftwaffe, and the remainder of the overrun were sold as civilian guns through the end of the war.
Kreighoff used the Luger contract to get a "foot in the door" with the Luftwaffe, and used that to get (more profitable) contracts for the survival shotguns (what they are probably most famous for), and also MG-15s, flare pistols and later, the FG-42.
The main reason you have such a hard time finding Kreighoff Lugers isn't so much because they are at the bottom of the Channel or in the rubble of the Italian campaign, although some were, no doubt lost there.
The main reason is that Krieghoff's total production amounted to only .5% (one half of one percent) of all Lugers made.
Sorry for a slight diversion, but what is considered the actual Country of Origin? I am thinking specifically about SIG Sauer pistols that were assembled, beginning in the mid-'90s, in the U.S. from German-made parts that arrived on these shores as pieces of guns, not actual firearms. Being a SIG fan I know that can be a point of contention among SIG aficionados, but I suspect it could be true of some other brands, too.
best answer I can give about the country of origin is what does the gun say on it?
it is general convention, and a matter of law in many places that the gun must be marked with the maker's name and address (city & country)
So, if the parts are made in one place, and assembled in another, I would say the country of origin is what the parts say it is.
Also, as a legal matter, the "gun" exists once the frame/receiver (the serial numbered part) is created in the factory.
If (for example) the frame is made in Germany, the gun is made in Germany, no matter where (or when) the rest of the parts are assembled on it to make it functional.
However, for some government purposes, they make a distinction between guns produced in the US and elsewhere. Such as for a military contract.
The requirement that the gun be produced in the US is met if the maker has a factory in the US. They may only assemble parts made elsewhere, but it meets the letter of the law's intent, if not the spirit.
"yes, these guns are made in the US, here's our factory!" wink, wink, nod, nod..
it is general convention, and a matter of law in many places that the gun must be marked with the maker's name and address (city & country)
So, if the parts are made in one place, and assembled in another, I would say the country of origin is what the parts say it is.
Also, as a legal matter, the "gun" exists once the frame/receiver (the serial numbered part) is created in the factory.
If (for example) the frame is made in Germany, the gun is made in Germany, no matter where (or when) the rest of the parts are assembled on it to make it functional.
However, for some government purposes, they make a distinction between guns produced in the US and elsewhere. Such as for a military contract.
The requirement that the gun be produced in the US is met if the maker has a factory in the US. They may only assemble parts made elsewhere, but it meets the letter of the law's intent, if not the spirit.
"yes, these guns are made in the US, here's our factory!" wink, wink, nod, nod..
I think the way that works is (according to U.S. Customs regs) if 51% of the work is done in the U.S. the "manufacturer" can claim that it is made in the U.S.A. This is how Springfield Armory gets away with putting Made in USA on their Brazilian 1911s.
As far as I'm concerned, the weapon can be made in Lower Slobovia if it is suitable for the purpose and well made of good materials.
jetinteriorguy
New member
Funny, I've never given it a thought. The only non USA gun I've ever had was a CZ P09, which was an excellent weapon. I had mine for about a year then traded it for a S$W 6" Model 28 and I consider it a good trade. Nothing wrong with the CZ, I liked it and it was an excellent gun. I just couldn't really say I loved it, I may get a P07 someday though, I think the slightly smaller size may be better for me. Otherwise it's been all Winchester, Remington, Ruger, S&W, High Standard, Harrington&Richardson, Stevens, Just Right Carbine, and Henry.
Quality, workmanship, reputation would be my first consideration. Country of origin might be a factor depending upon the country. Were it a product made to precision, I'd look at Germany, Switzerland, Scandinavian countries, and Italy. Since the Renaissance and before, Italy and Germany have been leaders in the invention and production of precision made products.
The USA used to produce top-quality consumer goods. Then profit incentive seriously compromised quality. When AMF owned Harley-Davidson, it produced junk. With guns, it appears that if we want quality American made stuff they're probably produced by a new version of cottage industries.
BTW, I believe that the really important stuff used in medicine are manufactured in Germany.
I own all Leopold scopes. They are of very good quality. However, because a hunter does a lot more glassing than looking through a scope, many years ago I busted out big $$$ that I would have rather used on a hunting trip for a pair of high-quality German binos. I will never again use any other binos.
While this is merely opinion of those who are in business of making opinions, I'd go with this opinion being more fact than opinion: Korth is the best revolver ever manufactured, and that includes S&W Model 27 & Colt Python. On the downside, I believe a copy of a Korth goes for somewhere in the neighborhood of 5k, maybe more.
http://www.guns.com/review/2012/02/06/korth-combat-revolver-review-a-near-perfect-357-except-for/
If you want to FUBAR anything, get government involved. Try to fire a derelict teacher. It can't be done. Unions protect the incompetent. Were a worker at a gun manufacturer to screw up precision made products, he ought to be kicked out the back door. Then he'd run to ADA or some other governmental agency that would force the gun company to rehire the moron with back wages and an apology for hurting his feelings. Get government out of business where it does not belong and has never belonged, and American craftsmen can compete with the finest craftsman anywhere in the world, and that includes Germany and Italy.
The USA used to produce top-quality consumer goods. Then profit incentive seriously compromised quality. When AMF owned Harley-Davidson, it produced junk. With guns, it appears that if we want quality American made stuff they're probably produced by a new version of cottage industries.
BTW, I believe that the really important stuff used in medicine are manufactured in Germany.
I own all Leopold scopes. They are of very good quality. However, because a hunter does a lot more glassing than looking through a scope, many years ago I busted out big $$$ that I would have rather used on a hunting trip for a pair of high-quality German binos. I will never again use any other binos.
While this is merely opinion of those who are in business of making opinions, I'd go with this opinion being more fact than opinion: Korth is the best revolver ever manufactured, and that includes S&W Model 27 & Colt Python. On the downside, I believe a copy of a Korth goes for somewhere in the neighborhood of 5k, maybe more.
http://www.guns.com/review/2012/02/06/korth-combat-revolver-review-a-near-perfect-357-except-for/
If you want to FUBAR anything, get government involved. Try to fire a derelict teacher. It can't be done. Unions protect the incompetent. Were a worker at a gun manufacturer to screw up precision made products, he ought to be kicked out the back door. Then he'd run to ADA or some other governmental agency that would force the gun company to rehire the moron with back wages and an apology for hurting his feelings. Get government out of business where it does not belong and has never belonged, and American craftsmen can compete with the finest craftsman anywhere in the world, and that includes Germany and Italy.