Could someone please tell me.....
- Thread starter Miss Demeanors
- Start date
Miss D,
I read about your horrible experience - and sypathize like the rest of the TFLers. Whether you have a gun or not, or plan to obtain one or not, I wanted you to know there was something smaller and less expensive available than the big, heavy, expensive safes.
Also, I wanted to let you know the "down" side of many trigger locks sold in gun shops, department stores, etc.
Larry,
Please read my post again. The little GunVault "safe" opens in a second or two - literally. It's made to be bolted to the bed (or anything heavy and close) and opened by "feel". No lights, no combinations, and no need for coffee and cigarettes. (It also has a backup key.)
If you get the Dillon catalog, The Blue Press, you can see what they look like. And, yes, they're sold many other places as well.
Harumph! Now that you and Jeff are neighbors, I suppose you won't wait for me to carpool to Washington, eh?
I read about your horrible experience - and sypathize like the rest of the TFLers. Whether you have a gun or not, or plan to obtain one or not, I wanted you to know there was something smaller and less expensive available than the big, heavy, expensive safes.
Also, I wanted to let you know the "down" side of many trigger locks sold in gun shops, department stores, etc.
Larry,
Please read my post again. The little GunVault "safe" opens in a second or two - literally. It's made to be bolted to the bed (or anything heavy and close) and opened by "feel". No lights, no combinations, and no need for coffee and cigarettes. (It also has a backup key.)
If you get the Dillon catalog, The Blue Press, you can see what they look like. And, yes, they're sold many other places as well.
Harumph! Now that you and Jeff are neighbors, I suppose you won't wait for me to carpool to Washington, eh?
I just noticed: Miss Demeanors is now a SENIOR MEMBER. Ya got promoted, 15 or so posts went by pretty quickly didn't they?
Congradulations.
PS There used to be decoder rings given out when you made that point but Rich stopped doing so. LOL (Sorry Rich, I had to put that in.)
------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
Congradulations.
PS There used to be decoder rings given out when you made that point but Rich stopped doing so. LOL (Sorry Rich, I had to put that in.)
------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
Gunz-n-Rosie
New member
Hooray Miss Demeanors! You're a senior member too. Now there are at least two non-gun-owning senior members at TFL. 
Hope you all don't mind our company. I am afraid that I too missed out on the secret decoder ring. 
I had been planning on using mine to translate people's signatures which had been written in Latin.
Psst... if you don't post for awhile Jim V really will make a thread with your name on it asking where you are. Yikes!
Hope you all don't mind our company. I am afraid that I too missed out on the secret decoder ring. I had been planning on using mine to translate people's signatures which had been written in Latin. Psst... if you don't post for awhile Jim V really will make a thread with your name on it asking where you are. Yikes!
Miss Demeanors
New member
Geez I am here G&R! I cant believe that I am Senior yay! Over at Acme it takes 30. So G&R there are 2 of us and approx how many of them? Imagine what the posters at wb would say, "they are all satanic stay away before they suck you in!" he he. Well this place is fun so dont worry I will keep posting!
Jeff, I'm just outside of Lakeway, real close to Hurst Harbor Marina and Sam Hill restaurant. Ain't all that far!
Dennis, I understand what the safes you describe are, I just don't understand what they're supposed to be for. I've known people who can unholster and put 5 shots in 5 different targets in around 2 seconds, and while I am not interested in that level of expertise I don't see why I'd like to ADD even 2 seconds to my reaction time. Case in point, some of you have no doubt seen it, others not:
"For reasons that may never be known, John Michael Levi turned on his White Post, Virginia neighbors one day in a rampage that jeopardized the lives of a couple and their three children. The mother had already compiled for police a 19-page typed log chronicling Levi's offenses, which included minor acts of vandalism. The situation instantly turned grave, however, one Sunday night when Levi entered the family's home with a sawed-off shotgun and a pistol threatening to kill everyone. As the mother and two daughters ran upstairs to escape onto the roof, the 15-year-old son and his father scrambled to load the family gun. Levi pursued the father up the stairs, reportedly declaring, 'It's time to die.' The father finally ended the confrontation with a deadly shot of his own." From The Winchester Star, Winchester, VA, 3/2/99.
Interesting that we did not hear about that while "compromises" were being discussed in Congress, eh? But really, he and his son had to go load the family gun before responding? Let's see, take a vote on the proper course of action, open the safe, find the key, remove the trigger lock, go to the next room for some bullets, return to load the gun, call mommy to ask for permission to defend your family, is there anything else we can do to eliminate "self-defense" from the American vocabulary?
As a self-defense tool a gun is worse than useless if you can't get to it, and if you need to, seconds count. If they don't, call 911.
And I have a van, we can all carpool together, or just barricade here if necessary.
Larry P.
Dennis, I understand what the safes you describe are, I just don't understand what they're supposed to be for. I've known people who can unholster and put 5 shots in 5 different targets in around 2 seconds, and while I am not interested in that level of expertise I don't see why I'd like to ADD even 2 seconds to my reaction time. Case in point, some of you have no doubt seen it, others not:
"For reasons that may never be known, John Michael Levi turned on his White Post, Virginia neighbors one day in a rampage that jeopardized the lives of a couple and their three children. The mother had already compiled for police a 19-page typed log chronicling Levi's offenses, which included minor acts of vandalism. The situation instantly turned grave, however, one Sunday night when Levi entered the family's home with a sawed-off shotgun and a pistol threatening to kill everyone. As the mother and two daughters ran upstairs to escape onto the roof, the 15-year-old son and his father scrambled to load the family gun. Levi pursued the father up the stairs, reportedly declaring, 'It's time to die.' The father finally ended the confrontation with a deadly shot of his own." From The Winchester Star, Winchester, VA, 3/2/99.
Interesting that we did not hear about that while "compromises" were being discussed in Congress, eh? But really, he and his son had to go load the family gun before responding? Let's see, take a vote on the proper course of action, open the safe, find the key, remove the trigger lock, go to the next room for some bullets, return to load the gun, call mommy to ask for permission to defend your family, is there anything else we can do to eliminate "self-defense" from the American vocabulary?
As a self-defense tool a gun is worse than useless if you can't get to it, and if you need to, seconds count. If they don't, call 911.
And I have a van, we can all carpool together, or just barricade here if necessary.
Larry P.
Jeff White
New member
Miss D,
Oh, I'm farther South then Pekin. I live in what's call South Central Illinois. Near a little town called Kinmundy. It's about 70 miles East of St Louis.
I am honestly surprised that more people from Chicagoland don't realize how big the state is. I once had a couple flag down my squad car and ask how long they had been in Kentucky. I smiled and told them that they had another 100 miles to drive to Kentucky and they commented on how "long" the state was.
Jeff
Oh, I'm farther South then Pekin. I live in what's call South Central Illinois. Near a little town called Kinmundy. It's about 70 miles East of St Louis.
I am honestly surprised that more people from Chicagoland don't realize how big the state is. I once had a couple flag down my squad car and ask how long they had been in Kentucky. I smiled and told them that they had another 100 miles to drive to Kentucky and they commented on how "long" the state was.
Jeff
Miss Demeanors
New member
Jeff W., I have never heard of that town, but have been down that way. Youre in all those cornfields right? LOL I have driven down there cutting through East St. Louis going somewhere into Missouri. I also have driven through there going into Arkansas. So believe me I know IL is big, seeing that we were driving for hours and hours It does get confusing down there compared to up here where there are so many people and traffic, houses, apartments, condos, ect. and they are all not that friendly here either, at least the ones I have come across.
It does get confusing down there compared to up here where there are so many people and traffic, houses, apartments, condos, ect. and they are all not that friendly here either, at least the ones I have come across.Larry,
The idea of such little safes is to have the gun readily available to the authorized user yet safer from unauthorized users.
In an ideal world, kids would never touch what they were told to leave alone. However, if you're not going to have the gun on your body at all times, even when you get up in the middle of the night to go potty, or when you take a shower (yes, or a bath) then some people feel the gun should be secured.
Me? I wear the thing. Or I have a firearm (9mm, .357 magnum, .45, or 12 ga.) stashed within a second or two of my grasp at all times. (And I mean, "ALL" times.) Also, I have no little kids around the house at the moment.
However, when small children come to visit, I think it is foolhardy negligence to leave guns accessible to small children. (I would hope you agree.) Therefore, the little safe.
Please remember not everyone expects the BGs or jack-booted thugs to burst into the house requiring a 0.01 second return burst of fire from the homeowner. Some folks like to have their gun accessible, loaded (unlike your spooky example), yet secure from little hands. A typical (big) gun safe provides security but the gun is inaccessible - as you so pointedly explained in an earlier post.
The small gun safe provides security from children, a moderate level of security from theft, and still provides quick access (at a single place) to a readily usable handgun.
And to say that the addition of 1-2 seconds totally negates the effectiveness of the handgun is simply oversimplification. If you want to leave your handguns "lay around" where you can get them, it may be appropriate for your situation. (It works for me most of the time!)
For parents with small children, and people who routinely have children as visitors, the small safe provides a safe compromise between the big gun safe (which precludes quick response) and a total abandonment of the responsibilities of gun ownership.
Again, it depends upon each person's situation. I'm not trying to tell you how to store your guns - I'm stating an option for those who may have a need.
Ye Gods, Larry! It sure beats a trigger lock on an unloaded gun!
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited June 25, 1999).]
The idea of such little safes is to have the gun readily available to the authorized user yet safer from unauthorized users.
In an ideal world, kids would never touch what they were told to leave alone. However, if you're not going to have the gun on your body at all times, even when you get up in the middle of the night to go potty, or when you take a shower (yes, or a bath) then some people feel the gun should be secured.
Me? I wear the thing. Or I have a firearm (9mm, .357 magnum, .45, or 12 ga.) stashed within a second or two of my grasp at all times. (And I mean, "ALL" times.) Also, I have no little kids around the house at the moment.
However, when small children come to visit, I think it is foolhardy negligence to leave guns accessible to small children. (I would hope you agree.) Therefore, the little safe.
Please remember not everyone expects the BGs or jack-booted thugs to burst into the house requiring a 0.01 second return burst of fire from the homeowner. Some folks like to have their gun accessible, loaded (unlike your spooky example), yet secure from little hands. A typical (big) gun safe provides security but the gun is inaccessible - as you so pointedly explained in an earlier post.
The small gun safe provides security from children, a moderate level of security from theft, and still provides quick access (at a single place) to a readily usable handgun.
And to say that the addition of 1-2 seconds totally negates the effectiveness of the handgun is simply oversimplification. If you want to leave your handguns "lay around" where you can get them, it may be appropriate for your situation. (It works for me most of the time!)
For parents with small children, and people who routinely have children as visitors, the small safe provides a safe compromise between the big gun safe (which precludes quick response) and a total abandonment of the responsibilities of gun ownership.
Again, it depends upon each person's situation. I'm not trying to tell you how to store your guns - I'm stating an option for those who may have a need.
Ye Gods, Larry! It sure beats a trigger lock on an unloaded gun!
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited June 25, 1999).]
Miss Demeanors
New member
Being a mom of a 4 y/o I would have to say that I think that if you can afford to buy the gun you can afford to get yourself some type of safe, that is if their are little children in your home. I know mine likes to get into everything, and there is no possible way to watch a kid every second. IF I owned a gun, I would prefer to keep it locked up just so she could never get near it. Although i do understand the point of not having quick access in case you need it in an emergency. I see there are alot of different types of gun safes out there, I guess what types of people enter your home is what you have to make your decision based on. If you leave it out at night, what happens if the kid wakes up in the middle of the night, comes in your room, you are sound asleep, and gets ahold of that gun? That is what worries me. If you dont have children in your house then this doesnt apply. Kids at my daughters age are very curious let me tell you! Something is better than nothing, whether it be a big safe, a little safe , a medium safe whatever, just as long as it cant get into the little ones hands.
Miss Demeanor,
I grew up in a home were there firearms available to my curious little self, My father would take me shooting and at first I would just put up targets and help police the area, and generally just be a nusiance. My real joy came when we got home and I could bring the guns out of the car into the house, becacuse then I could clean them. at an early age about 7 my father would let me clean his dirty firearms----this helped show me how the firearms worked and this method gave me an appreciation of the responsibility that owning a firearms infers. I was immersed in the safety of the firearms.......and youve heard these already, this at one time was a litinay everone knew....
1. never point a firearm at anything your not ready to destroy.
2. the gun is always loaded, even if you just unloaded it...
Now I wasnt supposed to go to the gun closet and take em out, and to tell the truth for the most part did not, but there were times I did take them and reclean them or just take em out to look at em--but I was already armed with the mindset of caution, Im 43 now and i started shooting when I was pre teens and I have never had an AD (accidential discharge), and if I ever had the gun would not have been pointed at an individual. As far as a safe is concerned, the only reason I have safe's is to protect my valuables from theives. Common sense should dictate that in an individuals home he/she decides how things are done not the government with mandated laws, they also accept the responsibility for there actions or lack there of........I dont normally have multiple firearms laying around, but if a child w parent came over then i would instruct said parent to ensure there wonderful little muchkin stays out of that area or would remove the firearms from around them. I agree that safe's the small safes that are supposedly quick to access are another tool for the homeowner who might have children running around---along with trigger locks they should not be mandated........and that parent who's child is there has the responsibility to make sure that there little tyke is not exploring my home...lol...fubsy.
I grew up in a home were there firearms available to my curious little self, My father would take me shooting and at first I would just put up targets and help police the area, and generally just be a nusiance. My real joy came when we got home and I could bring the guns out of the car into the house, becacuse then I could clean them. at an early age about 7 my father would let me clean his dirty firearms----this helped show me how the firearms worked and this method gave me an appreciation of the responsibility that owning a firearms infers. I was immersed in the safety of the firearms.......and youve heard these already, this at one time was a litinay everone knew....
1. never point a firearm at anything your not ready to destroy.
2. the gun is always loaded, even if you just unloaded it...
Now I wasnt supposed to go to the gun closet and take em out, and to tell the truth for the most part did not, but there were times I did take them and reclean them or just take em out to look at em--but I was already armed with the mindset of caution, Im 43 now and i started shooting when I was pre teens and I have never had an AD (accidential discharge), and if I ever had the gun would not have been pointed at an individual. As far as a safe is concerned, the only reason I have safe's is to protect my valuables from theives. Common sense should dictate that in an individuals home he/she decides how things are done not the government with mandated laws, they also accept the responsibility for there actions or lack there of........I dont normally have multiple firearms laying around, but if a child w parent came over then i would instruct said parent to ensure there wonderful little muchkin stays out of that area or would remove the firearms from around them. I agree that safe's the small safes that are supposedly quick to access are another tool for the homeowner who might have children running around---along with trigger locks they should not be mandated........and that parent who's child is there has the responsibility to make sure that there little tyke is not exploring my home...lol...fubsy.
Miss Demeanors
New member
Ok I am going to pack my bags now and you all can tell me where Matthew lives, I will just live in front of his house, I have my own cardboard box!
joegerardi
New member
Miss D:
SCRAPE, SCRAPE (Sound of soapbox being dragged out.)
I have been following this thread without post (until now) because there was little I could add. Most here know me as the shy, quiet type (senior member in 2 days! ) but I feel that I have something to add at this point: Re: safes and trigger locks - I have 3 children, and though they don't live with me, when they come to visit in August my pistols will be left out (though unloaded) and available. And, though my kids have never even seen a real gun, I haven't any worries, I raised them properly and they will be told NOT to touch them without instruction from me. Does your little one play with knives? Matches? Cleaners? The Stove? Drugs? I would hazard not. Why? Because you taught her that it's wrong and could hurt her. You showed her the danger of these items. I would venture that every parent here (and we ARE representative of gun owners in general) have taught their children that guns ARE dangerous. DO NOT TOUCH WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!!! And whilst knives, matches, et al., are required in a home, truly, guns are not. That we *choose* to have them is tacit acceptance that we are going to be responsible for them- i.e. we are going to make sure that anyone in our homes will be made aware that the gun is off limits. In my experience, once that fact is made clear, I find it's the adults that want to touch them more than the youngsters. To most kids an overly emphatic NO is final.
More than anything else, it seems to me that most Americans are ready to accept a panacea: That we will trust our government to take care of us; we will trust our police to protect us; That more laws means more security. I get the feeling that the people around this joint are more geared to taking care of their own. There children are raised with morals and mores (Damn! Where's the accent agout when you need it?); their lives are to be conducted with decency and responsibility. They will teach their children right from wrong, and the children will listen and learn. Having come from New York City, another anti-gun haven, all I can say is this is the kind of people I want to associate with, either on line with these folks here, or out shooting with friends.
(soap box put away.)
PS: Don't get me wrong, most of them are nuts, but responsible nuts. (I was getting WAY too serious there!)
[This message has been edited by joegerardi (edited June 25, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by joegerardi (edited June 25, 1999).]
SCRAPE, SCRAPE (Sound of soapbox being dragged out.)
I have been following this thread without post (until now) because there was little I could add. Most here know me as the shy, quiet type (senior member in 2 days!
) but I feel that I have something to add at this point: Re: safes and trigger locks - I have 3 children, and though they don't live with me, when they come to visit in August my pistols will be left out (though unloaded) and available. And, though my kids have never even seen a real gun, I haven't any worries, I raised them properly and they will be told NOT to touch them without instruction from me. Does your little one play with knives? Matches? Cleaners? The Stove? Drugs? I would hazard not. Why? Because you taught her that it's wrong and could hurt her. You showed her the danger of these items. I would venture that every parent here (and we ARE representative of gun owners in general) have taught their children that guns ARE dangerous. DO NOT TOUCH WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!!! And whilst knives, matches, et al., are required in a home, truly, guns are not. That we *choose* to have them is tacit acceptance that we are going to be responsible for them- i.e. we are going to make sure that anyone in our homes will be made aware that the gun is off limits. In my experience, once that fact is made clear, I find it's the adults that want to touch them more than the youngsters. To most kids an overly emphatic NO is final.More than anything else, it seems to me that most Americans are ready to accept a panacea: That we will trust our government to take care of us; we will trust our police to protect us; That more laws means more security. I get the feeling that the people around this joint are more geared to taking care of their own. There children are raised with morals and mores (Damn! Where's the accent agout when you need it?); their lives are to be conducted with decency and responsibility. They will teach their children right from wrong, and the children will listen and learn. Having come from New York City, another anti-gun haven, all I can say is this is the kind of people I want to associate with, either on line with these folks here, or out shooting with friends.
(soap box put away.)
PS: Don't get me wrong, most of them are nuts, but responsible nuts. (I was getting WAY too serious there!)
[This message has been edited by joegerardi (edited June 25, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by joegerardi (edited June 25, 1999).]
Miss Demeanors
New member
Hello joegeradi! I agree with what you are saying but must let you know this, all my kitchen knives are high where she couldnt even get them with a chair, the chemicals are in a cabinet with a childproof lock, matches are stored up high also and any lighters that are around have that child saftey on it. Yes, I do teach her that these things are not to be touched, but curious kids do not always listen, the more you tell them no the more they are curious. I feel safer knowing these items are not within her reach. Of course there are other things that cant be locked up such as the stove, as of now she cant figure out how to turn it on but she does know that it is hot. My daughter is as devious as they come, must take after her mother he he
Miss D-
Rosie gets her info from biased sources such as those mentioned above. One example is how she first stated that "16 kids a day are killed by guns in America", then later after Tom Selleck was on, she obviously had been corrected of this common misbelief (lie!) and she stated that "one child per day is killed with a gun in America", which is still a large exaggeration.
The way the "gun-grabbers" taint these stats is by adding in older people (up to age 25) and including all shootings, even those of gangsters shooting each other as well as teen suicides etc. The truth is, very few kids shoot themselves on accident...many times fewer than we would be led to believe.
For example, more children ages 1-5 die every year from drowning in open buckets than from accidental shootings. Yet, no one is screaming about "safety devices on buckets!" amd "keep all buckets in your home unloaded (empty) or locked up!". We are led to believe that guns are this mass plague on our society when they rank very low in the death rates, and the FAR majority of those deaths are from criminals shooting criminals in the slums. The truth is, most of us will probably never witness, nor ever know anyone that has witnessed, a crime with a gun. If gun crimes were so rampant, then how come no one I know ever has witnessed one or been victim to one? It is just not as bad as it seems. One reason being that gun crimes are exciting and always make it on the news, as opposed to other crimes, and also, the cities we live in are huge, so one person dying of a gunshot in a city of millions appears more of an epidemic than it is.
I keep MY guns in a large safe, ALWAYS, unless they are in hand, and I have no kids. I do always have one gun near my person, but all others are locked up in the safe. When I do have kids, I will take measures to ensure their safety, much of it through education, and some through other prevention.
Gun owners are no less caring about kids misusing guns, including our own kids, we are just realistic to the cure and are not prone to knee-jerk reactions. Requiring gun locks opens the door to a whole mess of law suits and everything else, and the fact is, children getting a hold of guns is just not that common in this country of over 270 million people, ~%60 of which live in a home with a gun.
I don't think any gun-owners are per se against gun locks, just the laws behind them. They are already required to be sold with a gun where I live and don't do a darn bit of good to prevent anything. Many companies and stores give them away with a gun, and so do Police. It is just when you make a law that I HAVE to have a gun lock on my gun, that now my home is invaded by govt laws, criminals now know that I have to have a lock on my gun, and I am responsible to be sued or jailed if I don't. Promoting gun locks is one thing, but making me by law put one on my own gun in my own home just ain't right, and I would say that it is akin to the gov't telling me how to raise my child in my own home.
thaddeus
[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited June 26, 1999).]
Rosie gets her info from biased sources such as those mentioned above. One example is how she first stated that "16 kids a day are killed by guns in America", then later after Tom Selleck was on, she obviously had been corrected of this common misbelief (lie!) and she stated that "one child per day is killed with a gun in America", which is still a large exaggeration.
The way the "gun-grabbers" taint these stats is by adding in older people (up to age 25) and including all shootings, even those of gangsters shooting each other as well as teen suicides etc. The truth is, very few kids shoot themselves on accident...many times fewer than we would be led to believe.
For example, more children ages 1-5 die every year from drowning in open buckets than from accidental shootings. Yet, no one is screaming about "safety devices on buckets!" amd "keep all buckets in your home unloaded (empty) or locked up!". We are led to believe that guns are this mass plague on our society when they rank very low in the death rates, and the FAR majority of those deaths are from criminals shooting criminals in the slums. The truth is, most of us will probably never witness, nor ever know anyone that has witnessed, a crime with a gun. If gun crimes were so rampant, then how come no one I know ever has witnessed one or been victim to one? It is just not as bad as it seems. One reason being that gun crimes are exciting and always make it on the news, as opposed to other crimes, and also, the cities we live in are huge, so one person dying of a gunshot in a city of millions appears more of an epidemic than it is.
I keep MY guns in a large safe, ALWAYS, unless they are in hand, and I have no kids. I do always have one gun near my person, but all others are locked up in the safe. When I do have kids, I will take measures to ensure their safety, much of it through education, and some through other prevention.
Gun owners are no less caring about kids misusing guns, including our own kids, we are just realistic to the cure and are not prone to knee-jerk reactions. Requiring gun locks opens the door to a whole mess of law suits and everything else, and the fact is, children getting a hold of guns is just not that common in this country of over 270 million people, ~%60 of which live in a home with a gun.
I don't think any gun-owners are per se against gun locks, just the laws behind them. They are already required to be sold with a gun where I live and don't do a darn bit of good to prevent anything. Many companies and stores give them away with a gun, and so do Police. It is just when you make a law that I HAVE to have a gun lock on my gun, that now my home is invaded by govt laws, criminals now know that I have to have a lock on my gun, and I am responsible to be sued or jailed if I don't. Promoting gun locks is one thing, but making me by law put one on my own gun in my own home just ain't right, and I would say that it is akin to the gov't telling me how to raise my child in my own home.
thaddeus
[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited June 26, 1999).]
Many good replies, here, Miss D., you started a good thread.
When my kids were small, my guns were out of reach. So far as kids are concerned that's all that's necessary. If you want a safe or a lock, fine, that's your business and not mine or the government's regardless of your reason for having it.
But all our recent effort in Congress (or by Slick, take your choice) is counterproductive in the extreme, aided and abetted by the media (read: Rosie!) as illustrated by the case I mentioned earlier in this thread, if those people had not had a gun, or hadn't been able to locate and load it in time, we very possibly would have had another mass murder of 5 people including 3 children within a month of Columbine, think of the shouts for yet MORE gun control to remove weapons from peaceable citizens!
Instead, the possession of a firearm PREVENTED a massacre, how much did you hear about it? This "train murderer" running all over the country, all involved police agancies including the FBI say is going to be VERY difficult to find (translation-they are not going to protect us). What is going to stop him most likely is running into someone who is armed. The government already had him once, turned him loose because "the information was not in their computer", thank you very much. He's apparently killed four more people in Texas since then.
There is an agenda out there, and it has nothing to do with "the children" or anything else we'd like to hear about. We're being lied to, and Rosie is helping do it.
Larry P.
When my kids were small, my guns were out of reach. So far as kids are concerned that's all that's necessary. If you want a safe or a lock, fine, that's your business and not mine or the government's regardless of your reason for having it.
But all our recent effort in Congress (or by Slick, take your choice) is counterproductive in the extreme, aided and abetted by the media (read: Rosie!) as illustrated by the case I mentioned earlier in this thread, if those people had not had a gun, or hadn't been able to locate and load it in time, we very possibly would have had another mass murder of 5 people including 3 children within a month of Columbine, think of the shouts for yet MORE gun control to remove weapons from peaceable citizens!
Instead, the possession of a firearm PREVENTED a massacre, how much did you hear about it? This "train murderer" running all over the country, all involved police agancies including the FBI say is going to be VERY difficult to find (translation-they are not going to protect us). What is going to stop him most likely is running into someone who is armed. The government already had him once, turned him loose because "the information was not in their computer", thank you very much. He's apparently killed four more people in Texas since then.
There is an agenda out there, and it has nothing to do with "the children" or anything else we'd like to hear about. We're being lied to, and Rosie is helping do it.
Larry P.
I'm going to add my two cents worth here. I strongly believe that gun safes are mandatory (by virtue of common sense) for parents and persons who have children visit their houses. I can speak from personal experience. I could always find guns hidden around our house (which were never loaded, as my parents weren't "gun" people) and did play with them, including taking them apart. I could find them at relative's houses also.
I'm sure I never stuck them in my mouth or pointed them at people, but I did, probably, point them at walls, not realizing that it isn't too difficult to shoot through a wall.
I support keeping one or two out, but in a closet in your room that can be locked from the kids (how about wearing your gun around and only putting it in the nightstand at bedtime). The rest go in the safe, as it would be hard to account for a dozen guns w/o it. I know that parents trust their kids to do right, esp. after teaching them safe conduct w/ firearms, but I think that curiosity, and failure to account for variables such as penetration could mean disaster. Some kids are know-it-alls, esp. in their teens, and would do stupid things b/c they think they know better. What about the friend who comes over and wants to see the guns? The friend could shoot your kid b/c he didn't know about gun safety. Your kid could joke w/ a gun, such as a 1911, and shoot someone b/c he thought it had a mag safety like your Hi Power. Too much leeway for your kid's judgement, which you would probably say, from experience, is not as good as an adult's, which is b/c mistakes are a learning process and kids are developing the capability to reason effectively, but haven't gotten there just yet, which is a natural phenomena, and no way an insult to your child.
I'm sure I never stuck them in my mouth or pointed them at people, but I did, probably, point them at walls, not realizing that it isn't too difficult to shoot through a wall.
I support keeping one or two out, but in a closet in your room that can be locked from the kids (how about wearing your gun around and only putting it in the nightstand at bedtime). The rest go in the safe, as it would be hard to account for a dozen guns w/o it. I know that parents trust their kids to do right, esp. after teaching them safe conduct w/ firearms, but I think that curiosity, and failure to account for variables such as penetration could mean disaster. Some kids are know-it-alls, esp. in their teens, and would do stupid things b/c they think they know better. What about the friend who comes over and wants to see the guns? The friend could shoot your kid b/c he didn't know about gun safety. Your kid could joke w/ a gun, such as a 1911, and shoot someone b/c he thought it had a mag safety like your Hi Power. Too much leeway for your kid's judgement, which you would probably say, from experience, is not as good as an adult's, which is b/c mistakes are a learning process and kids are developing the capability to reason effectively, but haven't gotten there just yet, which is a natural phenomena, and no way an insult to your child.