Cops writing other cops tickets.

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Frankly I'm not sure why LEOs want people to stay in their car so badly, at least not after the LEO is already out of his car.

It's:

A) Harder to tell if someone has a gun pointed at you when they are in the car

B) Harder to tell if they are drunk or high

C) Sometimes harder to tell how old they are

D) Harder to stop them from driving off


If you do get out of your car, have the courtesy to wait until the LEO is already out of theirs. Nothing makes a LEO more nervous than sitting in his car having a potential shooter out of his car and looking at him. The LEO is vulnerable while sitting there, don't make it worse for them.

That said, there isn't a reason to get out of your car most of the time. Just be nice, and if they get out of hand, take them to court. Most LEOs will not try to kill or rob you, so I wouldn't worry too much on that matter either.

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
Bad medicine is so far out in the ozone I'm not going to go there. Stay in your car! If you need convincing, go to any wrecker yard and look at the number of crunched up driver doors. On foot on the roadway is a quick way for your family to collect your life insurance. Also, bad guys get out. They want the freedom of movement. To clarify other points: Radar detectors don't work as a general rule. (Most police radars work on a burst principle and lock you in about 1/40 of a second) I look upon them as an additional fine for being stupid. After all, why are you paying 2-300$ to avoid a 50$ fine? Won't even go on your record if you just take a DE course. (20$) If you are expecting a flurry of tickets, I suggest you reevaluate your driving habits. I Will write another officer in a heartbeat. Never personally caught one for speeding, have hit them up for safety violations/unsafe trailers and such. (Ditto for pretty women) HATE to run code. As soon as the lights go on every loon for miles is going to try and ram you. I can actually get to a call faster without them. As an aside, if your area has volunteer firefighters, don't go on the road at all. Nothing instills greater fear in police than the thought some idiot in a 1988 Chevy with a Kmart rotating beacon, bald tires, and no shocks is running code to a dumpster fire on the other side of the county. Our volunteers are so bad locally that myself and other officers have made an agreement. If any of us get hurt, the other officers will draw on the volunteers if they show up. At least I'll have the chance of living until the paid EMS get there. Lastly, it's amazing how many "Former officers" there are. There is a reason for that. We've canned 26 officers this year alone. Most other departments do the same. One officer was fired for dating a man she met on a burglary call, and then lying about it. Equal opportunity at work!
 
The last time I saw a cop speed he was on his way to lunch at subway. We were side by side at a light. Anyway he was speeding as I was not. So I pulled in to subway as he was walking inside I asked if he was on a call as he sat down. I called the cheif to report what I saw. It is up to him to do somthing. How many oficers would right a ticket to someone speeding on the way to lunch. He was out of his county in an unmarked car and was an aviation cop( Chesterfield VA ) In Henrico county VA. If on a call sure go fast but not on a call watch your speed I am.
 
12-34 -
Just curious. Would the story have had a different ending (even allowing for the presence of the radar detector) if the encounter had started off something like this?

exLEO: Remains in car with paperwork at the ready and hands on steering wheel.

12-34: Approaches car and inquires, "Sir, do you realize why I pulled you over?"

exLEO: "Yeah. (sigh) Jeez, you'd think I'd know better - I've sat on the other side of the radar gun enough times myself... Oh, well. Ya' got me, fair and square."

Speculation on my part -
12-34: "Well, you were 13mph over. Try to watch it a little better. Oh, and at least have the decency to hide that detector a little better from now on. Have a nice day."


I've found that courtesy goes a long way when dealing with LE - or anyone else, for that matter.

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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
"Power corrupts. Absolute power - is kinda cool!"
Fred Reed
 
Well I am at a loss. BadMedicine will be a headline and it's only a matter of time. Sorry BadM but I just don't understand your logic. A LEO pulls you over and asks you to stay in your vehicle as you are about to exit. You decide not to listen and instead get out and stand there, he will probly ask you again and in a more alert state. And you are gonna refuse based on your beliefs? He'll probly draw his gun at that point because he thinks you must have some kind of problem, and you will draw yours too??!! WTF!? Why would you do that? You are asking to become a statistic and since you have a CCL you will be front page for the antis as to why we can't be trusted. I really don't intend to flame you but that is not thinking too clearly.

As for getting out of the car, my uncle who was a LEO told me and my dad once that iot was a good idea and to keep your hands to your sides or on the car with your papers in hand. He told us to not approach the LEO unless asked to but that it mad ethe officer feal better to be able to see your hands and that you are not a threat. This was about 20 years ago and maybe things have changed but I can't see why. You can drive off easier if you are in the car and you can hold your gun to your chest and just wait on the LEO's head and upper body to be exposed to take a shot. Seems like more danger to have the guy in the car. But I'm not a LEO and have not been properly trained. But I have always gotten out and made sure the LEO knew I was not a threat and if they ask me to stay in my car then fine, I stay in and keep my hands on the wheel. I have almost always gotten a warning with that method and it's probly because the officer knew I was trying my hardest to make him more comfortable about my intent. If I had ever used BadM's approach I wouldn't be alive today. Sorry for the length but BadM's post just makes no sense to me.

12-34 usually does have a different tone on this forum but I like what he did on this situation. This clown deserved what he got.
 
mk86fcc: yep, that about covers it.

Hukeokc. Gee, i thought i was Tone Deaf... :)

BadMedicine.. are you listening??

[This message has been edited by 12-34hom (edited September 07, 2000).]
 
12-34hom: Sure sounds to me like you did the right thing. He was speeding and them he acted like jerk.

I'm not a LEO. I've had a couple speeding tickets in my day. I'm always polite and respectful. I figure if I don't give the officer any grief, maybe he'll cut me some slack. I'm sure he's gotten his ration of grief that day, no need for me to add to it.
Sometimes it's worked, sometimes it hasn't. Besides, I was speeding and I got caught, so time to accept the consequences without complaining.

Regarding radar detectors, yes, I do use one and yes, it does work. Enfieldj, sorry but I disagree with you. First, my Valentine1 will always beat a radar unit that is left on all the time. I'll detect that radar long before I'm in the radar's range, including around the corner and over the hill. The issue is with instant-on radar. If there is a car in front of me (even 1/2 mile up the road) AND the officer lights up that car, then I will pick up the radar. If there isn't a car in front of me, and the radar car is well hidden, then yes, I'll be toast.

Why do I have a radar detector? Well, here in MA EVERYONE speeds, myself included. If you don't speed, you'll almost be run off the road. And speeding tickets here in MA are very, very expensive. It isn't the fine, it's the insurance surcharge. I recognize that if I do get stopped, the officer is unlikely to cut me a break. I accept that. But spare me from the lecture and just keep it professional if we do ever meet on the side of the road...

Regarding staying in the car, I'll always do exactly what the police officer tells me to do. Doing otherwise is not only illegal but just plain stupid. The officer isn't going to cut you a break if you start giving him a hard time.

Regarding officer safety, yes, it is safer for the officer if you stay in the car. He'll be able to see if you reach for a gun (your shoulders will move). And you'll be seated away from him. It would be awfully hard for you to draw, get out of the car, and then shoot, without him having time to react. On the other hand, if you are already out of the car, then you can close the distance to the cruiser very quickly. And with him in the seat of his cruiser, he'd have a hard time drawing and shooting you through the windshield.

BadMedicine: Anyone who draws on a police officer after refusing to get back in their car deserves a post-mortem Darwin award for improving our gene pool by removing themselves from it.

Jared
 
OK, everyone step back and take a deep breath.

First bombshell: Charles, I agree with you. :eek: Not having been on the other side of the badge (and not wanting to, thanks very much), I don't know what the unofficial protocol is for dealing with scofflaw LEOs, but your report sounds like common sense to me. Cops aren't above the law.

Bad Medicine, what you said above can be construed in court as a threat to murder any LEO who pulls you down for speeding. Way to help the cause, guy. :rolleyes: Realize that daring F-Troop to come get your guns isn't in the same league as telling Officer Friendly that you'll challenge him to a duel in the middle of the street.

As we're over 100K, I'm closing this one. Remember, gents, TTPO.
 
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