Cops expel CCW carriers from movie theater

"Digging their own graves" is a bit of a stretch. What percentage of movie goers care? 1?

In fact, I'd bet the number who are either supportive or indifferent outnumber the concerned CCers 50:1 or better.

Do I agree with the decision? Nope. Would I boycott? Yep, I did Chuckie Cheese when they put their sign up. Does it affect the industry? Nope.
 
The theater is considered a public convenience under the law and it allows usual and customary public access. There is no requirement that any person, American citizen or no, to surrender any rights to enter the facility. In fact, entry to the lobby area does not require any fee or pass. One may enter without a ticket to purchase items at the snack bar. The fact that you are already in the facility is acceptance of your presence absent any wrongdoing on your part to allow your removal; and the possession of a paid ticket makes it even more so.
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Jim Peel. You do that in your state of Colorado and you can be arrested for criminal trespassing. The concealed carry laws in this state are clear that private business, which all theaters are unless they are state owned, can refuse to allow open or concealed carry in their establishments. Therefore, the "No Guns" sign at the Aurora theater is legal and anyone caught with a weapon is breaking the law. I am not clear if it is considered a weapons violation, but I believe it is just trespassing.

From RMGO: 18-12-214 Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.

(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs/concealed-carry-permits
 
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If the theater was posted with appropriate signage, in TN that carries the weight of law and they should not have entered the premises armed. That employee did the right thing based on the wishes of the management who had chosen to post the premises.

The three carriers would have known better since they had to attend an 8 hour training class to get their permits, and the laws are covered pretty well in that class.

They are lucky they were just asked to leave, because they could have been arrested and had their carry permits revoked.

Like it or not, that's how the law works in TN.
 
LeadFistExpress said:
You do that in your state of Colorado and you can be arrested for criminal trespassing.
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It is only trespass if one is asked to leave and refuses. Absent any proof that I actually saw the posted signage their only option is to ask me to leave. I would, of course, do so immediately -- right after I collected my entry fee from them.

The issue is the search of my person and belongings. I am not required to allow a search; and if it is a requisite for entry I will simply ask for a refund and leave.
 
Digging their own graves" is a bit of a stretch. What percentage of movie goers care? 1?

In fact, I'd bet the number who are either supportive or indifferent outnumber the concerned CCers 50:1 or better.

Do I agree with the decision? Nope. Would I boycott? Yep, I did Chuckie Cheese when they put their sign up. Does it affect the industry? Nope.
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Have you worked in the Cinema business? Because I have, specifically Box office sales.

Some Cinema companies are going bankrupt and closing down because of the lack of business. Prices are higher than ever, and if you ever wondered why Concession food is so expensive, its because thats the only way they make profit right now.

$5 for a soda? $4 for a box of candy? $8 for a popcorn? Seriously.... Anyone who has a brain knows a soda costs a dollar.

If Cinema's further discourage pro-2A citizens like many of us here, I believe it may be detrimental to their business. Lets say for example that 10% of the movie-going population are legal CC-er's; thats still 10% of their business. and for real world figures, 2 out of the 3 people living in my home are legal CC'er's, so me and my roomate will not support a theater where I would feel unsafe. Three of my local theaters are at the brink of going out of business -- literally. Factor that with the current state of the struggling economy right now and they can be literally digging their graves...
 
It might also be true that after Aurora the non-gun public feels safer if they are assured that no one in the theater has a gun, legal or not, evil intent or not. The management understands that and that's why a "no guns" sign gets put up. I don't think there are many people who themselves are unarmed but feel they are safer if other everyday citizens are, given that CC permits don't usually come with extensive combat arms and situational management training requirements like badge-carrying police have to meet, and that's the general perspective, right or not, that non-gun people have of private gun carriers.

Is it possible that there was an armed off-duty police officer or two in the audience, but their training led them to the conclusion that engaging with the shooter in the bedlam and the dark would put too many innocents at risk? That might also have been the case with prudent "civilian" CCers. "An armed citizen could have stopped the carnage before it got as far as it did" is too simple.

It's also true that armed private citizens' coexistence with non-gun people in public situations varies greatly with where that happens because attitudes about guns are not consistent across the country. What is acceptable to the general public in Colorado, for example, wouldn't be close to what is acceptable in New York, for example.
 
Lets say for example that 10% of the movie-going population are legal CC-er's
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The real percentage of patrons is likely far less than that.

Counting the number of people with permits in a given area is one thing. Counting the number who actually carry on a regular basis is another. On top of that, we have to ascertain how many actually go to a specific theater, and of those, how many are actually affected. Then, we have to figure out how many of those would actually boycott.

The number would be very small, to the point of statistical insignificance. Whenever a business bans guns or CCW, there's an outcry to boycott, as if a small minority can somehow bring them to their knees.

I've never heard of that actually suceeding.
 
1. No problem from me with asking the Tennessee Three to leave if the theater posted a sign. Whether you want to patronize a business that posts a no firearm sign is a different story.

2. The story of the Colorado guy with a CCL but who open carried bothers me. Apparently Colorado is open carry and the guy was apparently within his rights (nothing about a no firearms sign) BUT he didn't have to do this at a time when moviegoers would be especially sensitive. He exercised very poor discretion. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

3. The story of the Connecticut lawyer is more complex. He also had a CCL but the story is not 100% clear he was carrying concealed. The gun was found "in his waistband" which probably means concealed but, if so, how did others spot it? Then there is the factual discrepancy as to whether he complied with officers' orders. Given his legal background and standing in the community, I'm betting he complied and the chief ordered an arrest anyway.
 
The common thread here is the lack of information from the news outlets. Each incident mentioned here is lacking alot of inoformation that would allow one to come to a proper conculsion about the incident. The last incident mentioned is the closest to home for me and I am waiting for the law suits to follow. Yes, I do believe at this time, that the police over reacted to the situation. I am fully aware of the Colorado shooting, but choose not to associate it with ever case of legal carry into a movie theatre. The media is doing that job well enough without my help. Mind you, I believe in the truth of law in these cases and not the public opinion of them. Some may be poor judgement, but on the other hand, were these people who carried not also scared of the situation in Colorado? Why is it that we forget the CHL carrier may also be acting to protect themselves. Those who legally carry have become the forgotten minority in these discussions. Most care about public opinion. As far as I am concrened, their opinion is just as valid as the geneal public.

Just my rant and IMHO.
 
As for the guys in the article, how did anyone know they were carrying? Because they did something to indicate so. If I go to a theater at the present time, I'd be very careful to keep my weapon concealed. They were either sloppy, or they wanted to make some sort of statement. My money is on the second option.
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Maybe one of the three. Once the police officers ask all present to identify themselves if they are carrying, is there a legal obligation to do so? Probably varies by jurisdiction, but as familiar as I am with the laws here, I honestly don't know the answer. I therefore would be inclined to comply to stay out of trouble that could cost me my CCL, a big lawyer bill, and other unpleasantness.
 
I believe theaters to be in decline and voting with your dollars is more grease on the chute.
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<Rant Mode ON>

Absolutely, but not just because of this issue. Theaters owners don't realize what happened to outdoor drive-ins is also happening to them.

Theaters are in decline because of:
1. Rising prices
2. Distractions from other movie-goers (you can count the Aurora incident as one type of distraction)
3. Less than stellar sound and picture compared to home theaters
4. Having to sit thru a half hour or more (!) of ads
5. Not being encouraged to attend (count the No Guns sign in this category)

On my days off, I sometimes goto a movie and eat lunch while watching it. I was recently denied access (I got my money back) because I had a sandwich w/ me.

Fine.

I waited till that movie was released on Blu-Ray and took it as a free rental from Blockbuster. Both the theater and the motion picture company suffered because of the theater's myopic policy. I suffered not at all.

<Rant Mode OFF>
 
I can't speak for anyone other CHL holder, but if I'm carrying and a police officer asks if I am carrying (either directly or as in this case indirectly) I'm going to acknowledge them and come forward. I went through the trouble and expense of getting a CHL and try to be law abiding. I imagine these three people were of the same frame of mind.
 
If you draw attention to yourself thru open carry and the normally blindered public notices, a potential BG will also notice and may target YOU first. :(

Moral: Don't do anything to draw attention to yourself. :)
 
This Is The Question The Article Asked

After the now infamous “Batman Massacre,” should citizens now bring registered permit weapons into movie theatres for their protection?
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:cool:Absolutely.:cool:

I did when I saw it the next night (it was a very poor movie, BTW) and will always do so from now on. Anyone who can and doesn't is at Condition White.

DVC
 
Last I checked, condition white has nothing to do with whether you're armed with a firearm or a wet noodle. It's about your mental preparedness level.
 
guy seen probably never stood up

thumbs up for tom recognizing the theatres are under microscope andor on high alert right now. many times you're dealing with some teenagers that really have no clue about weapons or laws, whatever. mngmnt possibly didn't mind but when a patron complained, scared police became involved and they are just taking no chances right now.

I read the two stories posted(one in denver and one on boston.com about CT lawyer).....both good reads, CO should NOT prosecute; CT well next time don't hassle the cops who are doing their job and you wouldn't be in this mess. Follow Commands..everyone has a job to do(you're a lawyer in court and not here and that is one reason probably why you were arrested)
 
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