Cop shoots self by mistake

I have to assume youve never seen someone who didnt decock the gun prior to reholstering. Something thats not all that uncommon in the real world.
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Carrying an undecocked SIG is functionally equivalent to Glock carry. The same goes for carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked. Assuming no one intentionally carries a SIG cocked or a 1911 cocked and unlocked, one cannot equate the less safe design of the Glock, which offers no form of affirmative manual safety, to the SIG or 1911 that a user may infrequently forget to use the decocker or safety lock.

To make a Glock ND with 6 lb of pressure, all one has to do is touch the trigger. To make a SIG ND with 6 lb of pressure, one has to touch the trigger and not engage the decocker before holstering. To make a 1911 ND with 6 lb of pressure, one has to touch the trigger and either not engage the safety lock prior to holstering, or disengage the safety lock prematurely.
 
Carrying an undecocked SIG is functionally equivalent to Glock carry. The same goes for carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked.
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Actually, the Glock has the edge here, as simply touching its trigger wont cause it to discharge, you have to apply pressure to the trigger and take up the slack to cock it before the 6# comes in. With the others, thats not the case, they are ready to go at that "touch".

Manual safeties arent a guarantee that the gun itself is safer, and actually just add to the complexity of things that you really dont want complex. The only true safety, is the user.
 
I have doint know of any incidents of an officer shooting himself here, it would also be unusual fore police here to approach a car firearm drawn, more training needed.
 
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If you feel the situation isn't yet clear then I would argue you shouldn't be reholstering. If you think looking at your holster for a second or two is going to allow the bad guys to get the drop on you, then keep that gun at the ready. There are different schools of thought on this of course. I think the point is to calm yourself and slow down when reholstering to prevent a ND.
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Just because you feel the situation is clear doesn't mean you should compromise your SA. If you can't reholster without looking at your holster, then you have a gear and training problem.
 
Sorry that I saw this late, but I was amused by the early discussions assuming that this was a pistol without a thumb safety. People who are sure that thumb safeties are the answer often ignore the fact that it has to be activated. While it is probably more likely that the pistol was one without a safety, it is more than remotely possible that it was a pistol with a thumb safety and through some combination of stress, haste, and imperfect training (and no training is perfect), it was not activated. Whether the pistol had a thumb safety or not, it was mishandled. Some continue to insist that a person who can't be trusted to keep their fingers off the trigger, or in this case to holster a pistol with care, will invariably use a thumb safety properly.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Just because you feel the situation is clear doesn't mean you should compromise your SA. If you can't reholster without looking at your holster, then you have a gear and training problem.
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There's a difference here, for me, between what I can do and what might be prudent. I can holster without looking down. My holster is both rigid enough to maintain its shape/opening and I generally avoid flowing clothing that could get caught in the holster itself. My muscle memory is also developed enough to do this.

But this is not me at a static range or even during a course. It's me after I just had to use a pistol to defend my life. Adrenaline, heart rate, emotional state, all these come into play. And again, my clothing and holster might have shifted depending on how I had to move, if I got knocked down, etc. I would rather take 1 second to look at that holster as I slide the pistol home than potentially fumble with it as I try to reholster.

There are compromises in everything we do. To me that pistol isn't going in that holster until I've scanned and the area appears clear. At that point a second is worth it, to me, to make sure I don't have a ND (in this case the officer injured himself, a ricochet could hurt someone else). If it's not worth it to you that's your call, but I feel like there is a decent argument here for looking down.
 
If you can't reholster without looking at your holster, then you have a gear and training problem.
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Perhaps those who reholstered without looking and had the problem were the ones who had the gear/training problem. ;)

We all know NOTHING is 100%. EVERY instance is its own instance, and you proceed as you feel best and prudent.

For most who carry concealed, youre not likely getting the gun back in the holster one handed, and its going to require care in doing so. Hopefully, youve already worked out most of the bugs with what youre wearing in practice, so you can reduce any possible problems. This is something that needs done, everytime you switch up your cover garment. Anyone who practices the least little bit, knows what happens to clothing when a draw is done under the least little bit of stress, and even without it.

Even if you can reholster one handed, it requires care and attention.

If I should decide to reholster, Im going to choose where and when, and not do so, if I feel its not safe to do so. If theres any doubt, Im keeping it out and ready. If I feel its the time, Ill reholster, and still give the cleared holster a glance as the gun goes to it. That split second glance is not taking away from my SA, and increases safety, exponentially.
 
Striker fired handguns with no manual safety are simply more prone to these types of accidental discharges, for reasons that should be totally obvious.

I don't understand why some people get so upset over people saying this. Ive owned DA/SA guns and striker fired guns, and Ive always been more cautious unholstering a chambered glock than a chambered sig. Why? Because its easier to make the glock go boom. Pretty simple.
 
I always treated them about the same, regardless what they were. The Glocks just have less to fiddle with and keep an eye on, if youre worried about the safety bits being engaged or not.
 
Is it common practice for police to approach a car with a firearm out of holster. ?
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One OSHP officer said he approached every car holding a J-frame in his jacket pocket. I said I was surprised at that and a Columbus officer present immediately indicate he and everyone he knew either did the same thing or something similar. SOrt of freaked me out, but I guess it is normal.
 
One OSHP officer said he approached every car holding a J-frame in his jacket pocket. I said I was surprised at that and a Columbus officer present immediately indicate he and everyone he knew either did the same thing or something similar. SOrt of freaked me out, but I guess it is normal.
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I was wondering, as a posted erlier its not something happens unless its a terrorist incident. As far as N/Ds the less times you take it out of the holster unless necessary the less N/Ds.
 
Regardless of what type of firearm it was, he pointed the gun at himself and pulled the trigger. I don't care what type of firearm it is, revolver, semi auto, double action, single action, striker fired, safety, no safety..... don't point a firearm at yourself and pull the trigger!
 
Regardless of what type of firearm it was, he pointed the gun at himself and pulled the trigger. I don't care what type of firearm it is, revolver, semi auto, double action, single action, striker fired, safety, no safety..... don't point a firearm at yourself and pull the trigger!
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In fairness we don't know that he pulled the trigger. It may have been something in or around the holster that got in the trigger guard and led to the discharge. It may well have been his own finger, I'm just saying we don't have enough details to say it was definitely him. Even were it something else, it was still negligence to not clear the holster before reholstering.
 
AK103K said:
It was a 1911. Combination of switching up guns and a Sherpa holster I believe
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He was using a Tibetan holster?


To be more precise Tex was performing retention drills earlier in the day with a Safariland thumbdrive holster and a Glock.
He then switched to a Kimber 1911 and a Blackhawk Serpa.
Since he was used to pushing on the thumb drive to release the holster he pushed with his thumb removing the safety of the 1911. Since the 1911 didnt release from the holster as expected he groped at the serpa release and as soon as the gun cleared he put his finger on the trigger since he was working on a speed drill and he was behind the curve.

In other words poor training led to this ND and not the Serpa holster.

I have been using a Serpa for 4 years with 2 different DA/SA pistols and I have never even come close to shooting myself or anyone else.
www.youtube.com/embed/zYvAxLX6OzE
 
AD (accidental discharge) is a concern of many. Some training entities do not allow button release holsters. The IWB holster should be removed when holstering the pistol, especially a Glock.
 
Actually, the Glock has the edge here, as simply touching its trigger wont cause it to discharge, you have to apply pressure to the trigger and take up the slack to cock it before the 6# comes in. With the others, thats not the case, they are ready to go at that "touch".
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Actually, in the scenario I described -- the application of 6 lb of pressure to each trigger -- all three triggers would be activated.

Manual safeties arent a guarantee that the gun itself is safer, and actually just add to the complexity of things that you really dont want complex. The only true safety, is the user.
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The manual safeties I've seen addressed in this thread -- safety lock, decocker, and DA trigger (the latter two combined in the case of the SIG) -- are all guaranteed to provide a safer design than the safetiless Glock. The safety lock, when properly used, requires the handler to make two errors before causing an ND. The decocker safely puts a SIG into condition 2, su o that the handler is provided with much more feedback -- in the form of a much heavier trigger and greater pull length -- informing him that he is making an error before an ND results.

If a safety lock or decocker is not used (likely a relatively rare event) one effectively ends up with the equivalent of a Glock -- a handgun with only passive internal safeties in play (ignoring the grip safety on a 1911) that is easily discharged by applying about 6 lb pressure on the trigger.
 
Maybe I'm extremely fortunate living where I do, but after watching Tex shoot himself in the leg, it makes me wonder if there really are areas in the U.S. where it is necessary to do the "Marshall Dillon Dodge City quick draw." :confused::confused:
 
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