Cop shoots self by mistake

I've heard of a couple of instances where a thumb break stub snagged and pulled the trigger upon reholstering. Never was able to confirm.
 
1911 leg, glock leg... I don't hear much about Beretta leg from the 92FS we equipped law enforcement and the military with for many years.

Common thread is that it's not DA/SA. A DA first pull saves legs end of story. And DA/SA has a lighter sa pull (3.3lb on my old p226) than a glock. If trigger safety is just a training issue then so is a different pull on first shot versus subsequent shots. The thing is, if I have a training failure (trigger control) with a glock I might kill myself but with a DA/SA the same failure results in a bad shot because my poor trigger finger strength causes a bad shot not an accidental shot. I'd rather struggle to pull the trigger than struggle not to pull the trigger, basically.

At the end of the day DA/SA is better it seems.
 
At the end of the day DA/SA is better it seems.
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That's making the assumption that a DA/SA pull would have prevented the accident in this case. The details we have are so few that we don't really know that.

The thing is, if I have a training failure (trigger control) with a glock I might kill myself but with a DA/SA the same failure results in a bad shot because my poor trigger finger strength causes a bad shot not an accidental shot. I'd rather struggle to pull the trigger than struggle not to pull the trigger, basically.
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That missed shot could cost you your life, or the life of someone in the background that was hit by that shot.
 
A DA first pull saves legs end of story.
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Thats making the assumption the gun is always in DA. I carried SIG's for a number of years, and Im well acquainted with them. As wonderful as they are, they, like anything else, arent perfect. Ive seen them reholstered without being decocked, and on more than one occasion. Nothing is perfect, especially when human beings are involved.

If you take the time and make the effort to be as proficient as possible with whatever it is you carry, you mitigate some of the issues, but nothing is 100%, especially if/when you introduce stress and/or distractions.
 
Discussion been good so far. Lots of Glocks carried here by LE so it may have been one or not. I carry a M&P 9C & I'm very conscience when holstering the little pistol. No safety so it could fire. I've tried to make the striker drop using the set up I have but can't.......BUT......doesn't make me any less careful. Also worry about dropping the mag while holstered but that's another thread.

 
Thats making the assumption the gun is always in DA. I carried SIG's for a number of years, and Im well acquainted with them. As wonderful as they are, they, like anything else, arent perfect. Ive seen them reholstered without being decocked, and on more than one occasion. Nothing is perfect, especially when human beings are involved.

If you take the time and make the effort to be as proficient as possible with whatever it is you carry, you mitigate some of the issues, but nothing is 100%, especially if/when you introduce stress and/or distractions.
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I have limited first hand knowledge on the subject but this makes some sense to me. The two NDs I was present for (not me! and at two separate work sites) involved people who spent a great deal of time carrying every day. The guy that shot himself in the wrist while dropping a deuce was especially seasoned. Still, we're human and we make mistakes. Given the right number of statistical opportunities perhaps we'd all have Glock or 1911 or Sig leg.

Just a thought.
 
Part of why I like DA/SA is that I can keep my thumb on the hammer as I re-holster, but let's be honest here - if you're negligent enough to shoot yourself with a striker, you're negligent enough to shoot yourself DA or SAO regardless of the secondary safeties.
 
I have a relative that works for a large agency and they had a high ranking officer, very high ranking, shoot himself with his backup gun during qualification. Pulled it from his ankle holster and pow.
 
cslinger said:
The above is not an attack on you or what you posted as it is absolutely a training, training, training issue. I just think a lot of us, me included, tend to look at incidents a bit myopically or through blinders and sometimes forget that training isn't combat and combat is all kinds of stimulus and focus that keeps you focused on staying alive not necessarily trigger discipline.
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There's a reason for the saying "We fight as we train." Also, "Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect."

Training (proper training) instills proper muscle memory and makes routine actions basically automatic. Improper training ingrains bad habits and makes them automatic. IMHO things like taking your finger off the trigger the moment your sights aren't on your target is one of those things that should be practiced religiously, and this case is a perfect example.

When the balloon goes up, your conscious attention is on the fight. That's exactly when it is critical that you have trained your automatic reflexes to do the right things at the right time. Allow me to offer a real-world, non-combat example. I was at the range yesterday, not shooting but helping the owner with a computer problem. Once that was solved, I naturally hung around. The owner was showing a semi-auto pistol to a prospective first-time buyer, and part of the explanation was to show the newbie how the magazine pops out. Mr. Owner popped the magazine out and neatly caught it in his off hand rather than let it fall on the concrete floor.

The owner then went on to tell about the day he was in a competition at a nearby outdoor range. After his first run through the course, a friend came up and asked him, "Do you know how much time you're losing doing that?"

"Doing what?" said the owner.

"You're catching your magazines in your weak hand and then dropping them, instead of just dropping them and reaching for the next magazine.."

Why? Because this is a man who earns his living standing behind a sales counter, showing countless customers how guns work. He's not going to make a habit of dropping magazines from brand new guns on a concrete floor all day and then have to bend over to pick them up, so he unwittingly "trained" himself to always catch the magazine -- and it carried over into the competition. In like manner, I'm sure I'm not the only member here who has read reports of police officers shot (or killed) in the line of duty who were found with an empty gun in one hand and a half-full magazine in the other hand. What happened? They had trained to do "tactical" reloads, and when the real-life gunfight happened, they automatically reverted to doing what they had trained.

Therefore, since we know a handgun being holstered doesn't "go off" by itself, the officer must have had his finger on the trigger. And, since the muzzle wasn't aimed at a target at that time, the only way his finger could have been on the trigger while his mind was otherwise occupied is if he routinely had his finger on the trigger while holstering every time he trained.

Feel free to disagree, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
 
I see none of you people were actually there.So it appears that you all are just making stuff up about this incident because not one of you knows exactly happened. .
 
Hypothesizing isn't exactly making stuff up about the incident, just discussing possibilities, which is done when you don't know the details. Its okay.

We do know that the gun went off while reholstering. We know that reholster discharges usually are a result of some sort of fouling/depressing of the trigger on a gun with no safety or a safety not engaged. This can be a drawstring (noted above), shirt or jacket, finger, part of the holster, or other materials.
 
Striker fired, 1911s, heavy trigger, light trigger, short or long, safety, no safety.

IF YOU KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SHOOT YOURSELF.
 
More than likely; they are designed to fire if the trigger is pulled. Training training training!
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More than likely the officer's finger was not on his trigger, as reholstering involves moving the trigger finger away from the gun. But, he was multitasking so I could be wrong. I suspect he was keeping an eye on the noncompliant perp while reholstering, and his safetiless gun's light trigger was activated by something that intruded into the holster during the chase and scuffle.

While training helps to reduce the likelihood of a straying trigger finger, it does not eliminate it: http://aele.org/no-recall.html. After all, a handgun is designed to comfortably and intuitively accomodate the trigger finger, and brain farts and involuntary muscle contractions, especially while multitasking, do occur. Which is why the US Army insisted on adding a thumb safety lock to the M1910 before accepting the result as the M1911.
 
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It is terrifying how many people I see keep their finger on the trigger when not firing at the range. I have seen LEO do it along with many others. If you don't take your finger off the trigger when not firing, like when holding at low ready, you have a good chance of reholstering with the trigger still in the trigger well.

To be honest I have negligently pulled the trigger twice on firearms and had something get stuck in the trigger on one other occasion that didn't pull the trigger. In all cases the other rules of gun safety were being followed and in all three occasions the firearm was not loaded, but it still shouldn't have happened. If it can happen in dry training or "administrative handling", in two of the cases in situation where I was experimenting/training because of a concern. "Always loaded" means ALWAYS, right? Still, if it can happen in a tightly controlled experiment or administrative handling it can occur in an intense live fire situation.
 
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