Cop doesn't like guns in hands of citizens

[Gary Conner]

That LEO is entitled to his opinion just like the rest of us and as long as he
understand he is paid to enforce the law and not his personal opinions, I don't
see a problem

I see a problem with someone swearing to uphold something they do not believe in, or do not understand. Article VI states that the Constitution, and ONLY the laws of a state which are "in pursuance of" the Constitution, are lawful. We don't need a Supreme Court decision to read article VI, it simply says what it says. And therefore, any law or mandate not in pursuance of the Constitution should be disregarded by a law enforcement officer.

If the LEO does not understand that, he cannot recognize an Unconstitutional law or unlawful order. Then, we wind up eventually with entire police forces willing to obey unlawful orders to unconstitutionally relocate and disarm entire populaces, a la New Orleans.

I spoke personally with an Assistant Police Chief of a major city a few years ago who at the time was a guest on a radio call in program. He and the host were discussing how the city police department is a "paramilitary force" and described residents of the city as "civilians."

I called and spoke with him, and asked him what the 2nd Amendment said, and what it meant textually. He answered that he "was not a constitutional scholar" and therefore, did not wish to discuss it.

So yes, it is important that a police officer, who swears to support something, kind of have a clear understanding of what he is pledging.

If he or she does not, then he or she should not be entrusted with the type of authority, weaponry, and resources made available via my tax dollars.

That is just a simple fact. Someone can say (till the cows come home) that their job is simply to "enforce the law", but that is incorrect. Their job is to understand the law, and enforce only what they honestly and intellectually believe to be, a constitutional law. Because that is what they pledge to do.

 

[SIGSHR]

Again, LEOs are civilians too, the only people in this country who are NOT
civilians are military personnel on active duty.
Regarding LEO bashing, I have tremendous respect for LEOs, in the big cities
especially they spend much if not most of their time dealing with the dregs of
society, in Central New Jersey where I live they are the ones out there at 2AM dealing with the carnage from DUIs or assisting the firemen, they are out
there in freezing rain and snowstorms, working nights and weekends and holidays. I salute them, as I salute our military personnel.
However, those who know me are often surprised that I generally have a critical attitude towards military personnel, I point out that I think my background-4 years active duty in the Army, 1967-1971, including a year in
Vietnam as a grunt, 3 years in the Reserves, then taking ROTC in college
and retiring from the Reserves as an LTC after 22 years-gives me the right
to criticize, and I do not consider it mud slinging or sour grapes to point out
dereliction of duty or incompetence. I often upset people when I say that I
have found military people often lacking in integrity, I note that most vets
agree with me. In the case of the NYPD, their unsavory reputation is well
deserved, and they brought it on themselves. Remember the Knapp Commission of the 1970s that found widespread corruption, and another commission 20 years later that found pockets of corruption still existed, and the "Code of Silence" that is passed off as a mark of loyalty and fraternity
but is used by the 1%ers as a way of hiding their misdeeds.
I also note the "Us vs Them" attitude has been well documented, not only
in NYC, but also in Chicago, LA, and other cities, indeed I have read-and have
been told-that even NYPD retirees who remain in NYC realize that they are
no longer "one of the boys" once they retire.
I also note that race relations are at their worst in those cities and states
that have had liberal and left leaning governments for years, and in reaching
out to Sharpton and company Bloomberg realizes that many residents of NYC
do feel alienated from their ertswhile representative government and in acting
the way he did he engaged in a preemptive strike and released the pressure
before it build up too much.
I note that the military has taken a hardline against war crimes in Iraq, and
those who think they can get away with Vietnam style nonsense of mistreating civilians, gunning them down and then planting weapons and claiming self defense, etc. are finding out it's a different ballgame.
And finally I blame Bloomberg's hoplophbia, and when NYC is forced to recognize the RKBA and can no longer act like a semi-autonomous city-state
that practices "Cafeteria Constitutionalism" and its people have their full rights
as citizens, events like the one we are discussing will become even rarer.

 

[tyme]

Any demographic you can name has its share of a** holes: girls scouts, cops, mailmen, bikers, moms, etc. ... 8-12%

The difference is that jerks in those other demographics can't use force to impose unconstitutional restrictions upon you or me.

 

[calvinike]

Powderman,
You are a breath of fresh air. I hope you can convince your more Neandrathal brethern to your views. We do need cops like you.

'Thanks.

 

[Homerboy]

SIG:

I agreed with your post about almost everything, but your mudslinging at the NYPD is uncalled for. Yes, corruption did exist in the past, but it has all but been eradicated. What little corruption that exists topday is mostly due to the scum the city has taken to hiring in the interests of diversity, and to combat the absymal starting salary city cops now have. People are being hired with criminal records. There are whole units whose job is to test officers on the street. I know I've been tested several times, and when an officer takes anything at all (including a free cup of coffee or sandwich from a merchant on the beat), he will be terminated.

NY Cops are the lowest paid, overworked, and trustworthy PD in the nation. Despite the rabble rousing of Al Sharpton and the like, they are also the most restrained in the use of deadly force. I can honestly say (and why lie on an anonymous board?), that I have NEVER seen a cop take money. When one does, we were glad to watch him do the perp walk on the 6 O'Clock news. You have a far higher chance of meeting up with corrupt cops in small towns without the scrutiny or supervision that NY cops are forced to work under.

 

[revjen45]

Yeah, the police are for the most part honorable people doing a difficult job better than one might expect. That said, if I have to deal with a deadly threat I am dialing 9mm. When it's all over but the shouting I'll call 911 to satisfy the shyster brigade. Basically, the law is there to supply busy work for legions of lawyers, and to allow political parasites to convince the drooling masses that they are "doing something" about whatever problem is at hand. Ever wonder about the Trial Lawyers being the biggest contributors to the Democrats?

 

[Northern Sod Breaker]

Give them a badge and a gun and suddenly they know everything. There are level headed cops. They are the exception, not the rule.

 

[Al Norris]

SM? You are oh so wrong...

 

[FirstFreedom]

Well said, Gary Connor!

 

[mxwelch]

Give them a badge and a gun and suddenly they know everything. There are level headed cops. They are the exception, not the rule.

Funny, like I said I know many LEOs and none of them are as you mentioned.

 

[mxwelch]

Those of you with the "from my cold dead hands" club should chill a bit. There are far better choices to make than shooting it out with cops. That will only get you and your house lit up, putting your family in danger. If the National Guard was called out in some emergency, be prepared to go out very quickly in a blaze of glory.

Really? So you're telling me that if the federal government all of the sudden decided, against the Constitution, to confiscate firearms you would do nothing? I wonder where we'd be if our forefathers had kept this train of thought.

I know of no sane person that wishes an armed confrontation but should there come a time and a reason for it I'd hope that people would do the right thing.

Let's be clear, I am NOT advocating violence against the government, I believe we have the best form of government in the world, as long as the Constitution is followed. I believe that the vast majority of LEOs would refuse an illegal order anyway...

 

[Wildcard]

I believe that the vast majority of LEOs would refuse an illegal order anyway...

I honestly thought that as well, until Katrina happened. If you really think that the majority of LEO's would refuse an illegal order, you need to get your head out of the sand.

 

[JJB2]

i hate to admit it MX but i'm afraid the people who would stand up and fight it out for our gun rights are very few and far between ....... it would take ALL of US gun owners to stand up and say NO!!!!!! i would hope to think that the law enforcement might lead at such a time but i wouldn't bet a dime on it................................ yep i think our vote is our best weapon...........

 

[crashresidue]

Cheers all,
As usual, I get into these things rather late. I "ghost" here - don't post often.
In 40 years of aviation, I've probably worked or flown with a couple of thousand LEO's.
In that time, I've met one - ONE - that's been an A**HOLE about civilians and weapons.
As an example: the motel that my company had me stay at this fire season was just off the Interstate. We got ALL the trash that flows along that artery staying in the motel. Car loads of young males of all races cruising the parking lot all night long. Crack whores and the associated crime individuals right there with them.
Every night, I'd meet various law emforcement units sitting in the lot watching the "cruisiers".
I'd enter my room, make a cocktail and step outside - still wearing my nomex, to smoke a cigarette. After a couple of days, the LEO's would de-car and approach me. We'd talk - about who I was and what I was doing in the AO, about what fires I'd flown lately, or last year.
A couple of months into the contract, we had an "incident" in the parking lot. I told the officers that I need to retrieve my "gun" from the room and stepped inside to arm her. When I returned to the door, the LEO - not looking at me, asked what I had and how many rounds were loaded. I told him it was a .380 with 8 in this load and another mag with 7.
After the confrontation was concluded - no shots fired, he told me I need to "get MORE gun"!
He recommended a .45 ACP compact - CHEAP - because I was going to have it taken by the police. I might get it back, but don't bet on it.
Sorry, but I can't "bash" LEO's - I've met way TOO many of the good guys carrying a shield.
(Yea, I know, I've got a post from a long time ago bashing an LEO - either here or on THR - but that one was the ONE I mentioned here.)

gentle winds,
cr

 

[mxwelch]

I honestly thought that as well, until Katrina happened. If you really think that the majority of LEO's would refuse an illegal order, you need to get your head out of the sand.

In a liberal city all bets are off. Sorry, should have mentioned that.

 

[Trip20]

In a liberal city all bets are off. Sorry, should have mentioned that.

Here's a graphic of those liberal cities.

 

[marlboroman84]

Hey Trip,
Get that little blue triangle off Memphis man! The town sucks, but we are on a pro-gun upswing. We got alot of pro-guns cops here!

 

[skeeter1]

I can remenber the days when hunters would come back to town from hunting and the ones walking would take their guns right into the diner or bars with them, today they would have a swat team on them for just walking down the street with a gun.

Isn't that the truth. My dad took his rifle (late 1940's) on a streetcar to a gunshop for work in downtown Cleveland. Can you imagine doing that today? I think it's technically still legal, but the cops would be all over you like flies on, well, you know what.

 

[mxwelch]

Here's a graphic of those liberal cities.

What's your point? Wanna add up land mass next? I don't give a rat's rear end who wants them banned. They'll have to trash the Constitution to do it and I'll bet there's enough people who wouldn't stand for it.

 

[brickeyee]

"...I'll bet there's enough people who wouldn't stand for it."

I would hope so also, but am not holding my breath.
The sheeple in the cities are very numerous...