Cop doesn't like guns in hands of citizens

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brockgl

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I was talking to a police lieutenant the other day, who said to me quote,

"I do not think most citizens should ever own a gun."

This got me really fired up. I think that every intelligent citizen of the U.S. should carry a firearm. I believe that the country would be a lot safer. I also think that our forefathers believed it was wise for the citizens of this country to arm themselves.

The cop and I got into a discussion about the 2nd amendment, and I told him why I thought it was implemented. I believe the right to bare arms was given so that the citizens would be able to take back control of our government by force if it was ever necessary. It wasn't given to us so that we could merely protect ourselves from the crackhead down the street. It was given so that we could protect ourselves from the government.

He asked me what would happen in a situation where the citizens had to overthrow their government by force.

I said there may come a day when cops are told to enforce laws that are oppressive and immoral, and if that ever happened that I would surely fight back against the cops themselves.

He told me I was ridiculous, because he was just the messenger, and to kill the messenger is ignorant. He said that I should only fight against the heads of state.

I said that he wasn't merely the messenger, but rather the Arm of the Law. And that the arm and the head are members of the same body. I will fight the arm back if it is trying to destroy my freedom. Once the arm is severed I will then go for the head.

I couldn't get across to him, and I have met one other cop in my local area who has a similar view about guns in the hands of citizens.

Would any Police Men or Women like to comment? Does anyone know any cops who feel the same way? Am I wrong in my philosophy? I am willing to be wrong if someone can explain to me why.
 
Most shouldnt carry guns

I would love to see his qualifying scores at the range to tell you if id want him carring a gun.
 
The problem is not that you are wrong but that Some officers are wrong to think the way the one you were talking to. It starts at the federal level of gov't and works it way down. The Consistution is the supreme law of the land. All who take the oath of office swear to" protect and defend the Consistution" but most don't even know what that means or what the Consistution says.
 
Well, I can tell you most emphatically that the vast majority of police officers do NOT feel the same way. You have a right to own firearms, just as we do. We are the same as you--citizens of this great Nation; we just happen to wear badges, that's all.

Some folks pin on badges and have a bad case of cranial-rectal inversion. They think that they can speak for the masses, cure severe illnesses and make things all right with the world with a wave of the magic wand.

Fortunately, most of us are a bit more down to earth. If I were to contact you, give me a minute or two and I'll probably be talking your ear off about firearms and the different aspects thereof. Let me know that you have a valid CCW, and we'll talk holsters and modes of carry. Just came from the range, with a car full of guns? Kewl beanz! We'll talk about shooting up close, long range shooting, windage and elevation, scopes, preferences, handloads, etc...

No, we're not all overbearing dorks. You just haven't met enough of us yet. :)

Signed,

Powderman
(Your friendly neighborhood bigger-gun-nut-than-you taillight chaser)
 
powderman you sound like my local sheriff. He is always bugging me and my brother to let him try out some of our guns when he sees us at the range. He even pulled me over once (lights and all) just to ask if he could borrow my brothers registered MP5 again. Of course my town has a whopping 500 people in it, so don't expect this to happen in your city.

I agree that the cop in question has lost sight of the reason (or maybe never knew) why our founding fathers established the constitution and its amendments.

Thanks for protecting us and have a safe day.
 
No. Two neighbors across the street are LEOs, and we've discussed firearms before. Most of mine (except for the bedside handgun) are locked up in the safe. I don't do any CCW any more. The ones in the safe are strictly for recreational shooting.

My brother, who is a LEO, is firmly against CCW. Maybe that's one reason I don't talk to him much any longer.
 
He told me I was ridiculous, because he was just the messenger, and to kill the messenger is ignorant. He said that I should only fight against the heads of state.
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Oh, great. Another one of those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Defense
http://www.amazon.com/Obedience-Authority-Experimental-Perennial-Classics/dp/006073728X
http://www.prisonexp.org/

That is why we need minimum government and minimum restrictions on what we do and what we can have. Not because having things and doing things is necessarily good, but because people designated as Guardians end up, on average, doing bad things in the name of duty.
 
A police officer that willingly consficates a legal weapon has just violated someone's Constitutional rights. They have just opened themselves up to a huge lawsuit. However...

I know many officers and not one advocates legal citizens not owning guns. I go shooting with many in fact.
 
I'm not an LEO, but one of my best older friends is a local LEO and we have had this discussion lots of times before because him and I shoot together sometimes. Luckily he doesn't feel that citizens shouldn't be allowed to own guns. He actually said that there's some cop friends he knows who he feels shouldn't be allowed to carry guns even while on duty because he thinks of them as a huge liability cases and that they at times brag about wanting to shoot someone. I am NOT saying all LEOs are like that, but it's just what I heard from my LEO friend.

I think another thing is that some people get a little power hungry when they wear the shield and have authority over other people. And they tend to think they can pass judgement over normal people who aren't officers. It can be small things like cops running red lights for no reason or talking on cell phones while driving. All the way up to the topic of this thread.

Anyways, i'm just glad the local LEOs around me are real gun friendly.
 
I know many officers and not one advocates legal citizens not owning guns. I go shooting with many in fact.
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Yes, the range that I frequent normally has a number of LEOs in there just practicing or qualifying, and for the most part, they're just regular folks like all of us.
 
Guess we're lucky in in Northern Florida. All of the deputies I know don't have a problem with CCW or guns in general. One of our best friends is a deputy and we have a great time at the range together.
 
Well, I can understand his point of view to some extent - most of the people he has occasion to deal with on a day to day basis in his job are, by definition, scraped from the bottom of the barrel. If he thinks that such people are representative of society as a whole - "most people" - then it's not surprising he thinks that way.

Maybe he's just proceeding from false premises. Perhaps if you showed him the stats that indicate CCWs are less likely to attack you than a gator in Florida, he'd figure this out.
 
Most LEOs with whom I have spoken about private citizens and CCW are strongly in favor of it. I think the majority are proponents of CCW and the ones that oppose it are an aberrant minority.
 
So what if the guy is a cop and doesn't think citizens should have guns? Lots of people think citizens should not have guns. A cop is just another citizen who is in uniform.

Our former police chief didn't think folks should have guns, but the D.A. and the Police Dept's firearms instructor felt pretty much everyone should. The D.A. thought every home should have a pump shotgun as the starting point for home defense. The firearms instructor felt anyone of any in the home that was of sufficient size to shoot a gun should have firearms safety instruction and when of sufficient age to be responsible, defensive firearms training.

These three diverse opinions came via our local 12 week Citizen Police Academy class.
 
DNS is spot on.....

What does his career choice really have to do with his view of firearms ownership?

I have known some cops that were not interested in owning guns themselves and only carried one because it was required

And I know lots of gun owners that think that they should own guns but that most others should not because they are not smart/safe/cool enough
 
I can remenber the days when hunters would come back to town from hunting and the ones walking would take their guns right into the diner or bars with them, today they would have a swat team on them for just walking down the street with a gun.
Maybe with the hornets nest that has been stirred up in the middle east, and other parts of the world everyone had better arm themselves, stock up on ammo, reloading equi. there may come a day when America has more problems here than the cops can handle.
with a billion muslins, a billion chinese and 100 million koreans all wanting to see Americans dead, this is no time to be taking guns away from anyone. It certianly wasn't cops that beat the british and earned us our 2nd amendment. can't really blame the cops thou, it's the politions that we elect that make the laws. Sometime makes me happy that i have a lot more time behind me that i have left in front of me.
I hope not, but There has to be a lot of sleeper cells in America just waiting for orders. JMO
 
I have known some cops that were not interested in owning guns themselves and only carried one because it was required
I play poker with a retired cop every thurs night and he never owned a gun, just had the police issue and fired it at the range. I don't believe he ever held a shotgun.
 
As an leo I believe citizens having guns is a good idea; especially in thier homes. As a burgular would you want to go into a house knowing the people inside were armed? That's why most home burglaries are in daytime and most store burglaries are at night. I also believe guns should be locked in a safe when no one is at home to stop thefts of those same guns. Armed citizens deter major crime more than an leo can ever hope to.

I admit I have met some citizens who just should not own a gun (or even be allowed to reproduce for that matter) but I do not know any cops at present who advocate no citizen carry.

As a side note I have NEVER given a citation to a CCW holder.

Chuck
 
No (out of 50 I've dealt with over the last few years) local deputy has ever had an issue with my holster on my dining room table, though every single one has eyeballed it. One even asked me if I wanted to sell it.*

The FBI, however, doesn't like my having a gun. Can't go into it yet.

* the gun, not the holster.
 
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So what if the guy is a cop and doesn't think citizens should have guns? Lots of people think citizens should not have guns. A cop is just another citizen who is in uniform.
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There is a huge, huge difference.

If a non-LEO citizen is simply ignorant of our laws, it does no immediate harm since a non-LEO citizen is not charged with enforcing our laws.

However, a citizen who accepts a position in law enforcement, by law, swears or affirms to support the Constitution, previous to entering office. If he does not support it, he should not be swearing to do so. That so called "law enforcement officer" who does not support the constitution admittedly, should be reported.

Because when a person wears to support the Constitution, they are promising to support each and every Amendment and Article within the document.

When entering office, they are not allowed to choose from a menu of Amendments they intend to take seriously. They are not allowed to choose from a menu of Articles to say they disagree with should it affect law enforcment.

They swear to support the Constitution, period.

In that document exists not only the 2nd Amendment, but additionally Article VI. Article VI is THE MOST IMPORTANT law which exists in our country under our system of government. I an LEO doesn't support Article VI, then situations such as the New Orleans gun confiscations occur.

A law enforcement officer who does not respect the textual meaning of the 2nd Amendment, or who is ignorant of Article VI, should not be commissioned as a law enforcement officer by any State or Municipality.

A citizen who does not understand it, is simply ignorant, but otherwise mainly harmless.

An LEO who either does not respect our Constitution, or who does not understand it due to ingorance is in a position to exploit power.

So there is a huge difference.
 
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