Controversial Topic Warning!! Is owning a gun for SD/HD similar to...

It's not the odds, but the stakes.

If you need it, YOU REALLY NEED IT.
Click to expand...

I think this logic pretty much sums it up for me. It's not quite like having a knife on you just in case you need to cut something. I don't normally associate my knife's use with anything life threatening (opening boxes, cutting 550 cord, etc.), but if I need to pull a gun out, I need to freakin' pull my gun out! Chances are if I'm doing that, I'm defending myself or my wife.

Being prepared never hurt anyone. I also really enjoy collecting, shooting, cleaning, building, modifying, and learning about firearms, so I don't just own them for SD/HD.
 
I own firearms because I enjoy collecting them and shooting them.

I do carry a pistol because I have seen it be a lifesaver. I do not want to be ever caught without the means to defend myself because I just didn't feel like picking it up and putting it in my pocket or holster.

Statistically, the odds of your house burning down is once every 1200 years.

I have fire insurance anyway. The risk to me, personally, is too great, and the impact of losing my home and everything in it, is also too great, to not have insurance.

Same thing with the pistol. The odds are very low, nearly zero, that I will be a victim of violence, especially with my lifestyle, but the impact of a violent encounter is too great to not have the means of warding it off.
 
For a large number of defensive uses, a fixed blade knife, OC Spray, and working out combined with situational awareness would keep them just as safe. They suffer higher risk of failure, but for a large number of uses (I'll say maybe half) that would be all a person would need and it would cost less than $50.

Firearms cover the rest of the uses. 92% are stopped by producing a gun, so an unloaded revolver would work over a larger capacity semi auto such as my CZ 75.

I have a sneaking feeling that most people that carry enjoy guns. I can't imagine there are many gun owners (especially regular carriers) that don't enjoy them.

This doesn't make their defensive uses any less legitimate. If you need one, you probably really need it. There are an estimated 500,000 to 3 million defensive uses ever year, so your odds are closer to 1 to 100 vs. 1 to a million.
 
You're posing a classic risk management scenario. If there are quantifiable risk probabilities and costs, it's an easy analysis. (ie.; if a bridge has historically washed out every 3 years, cost to replace is X, the average annual cost is ...)

You can find the statistics for your area and concerns, and come up with a risk factor. If you remove the emotion, it's a pretty simple calculation.
 
Last edited:
guns, seat belts, fire extinguishers, door locks at home.... its only foolish to not try to prepare for those crimes/accidents which happen everyday.
 
The fire insurance/extinguisher example is great. When I was going to college I had a '79 camaro, myself and a friend put a new transmission in it one weekend, forgot to tighten a cooling line, thing caught on fire on monday on my way to school. I didn't have any means to put the fire out, a passer by stopped and pulled out not one, but two fire extinguishers. Saved the car. I would never want to be in a situation where I depended on anyone to be the guy that happened to have the gun to save me. Probably will never have another car fire, probably won't ever need a gun either. But, would rather be prepared than be at the mercy of strangers to save my life.
 
I have already had two incidents where I needed a firearm to keep from being robbed/attacked by groups of people. Both times were in middle-class to upper-middle-class neighborhoods. Luckily no shots were fired in either case.

The argument is not hypothetical to me. Anybody who wants to tell me I'm wrong doesn't care what might happen to my children if I am not armed so they don't deserve any respect from me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ezmiraldo said:
Controversial Topic Warning!! Is owning a gun for SD/HD similar to never flying airplanes because they rarely crash, but when they do crash, chances are everyone dies?

Or, is it similar to regularly buying lottery tickets while knowing that the odds of winning are 1 in 1,000,000?

Seems like for most of us (non-LEOs, non-military, people who do not have dangerous "security-type" jobs, who do not work counters in banks or gas stations, who are not being actively threatened, and who do not live/work in crime-infested areas) chances of being assaulted/attacked/robbed inside and outside of one's home are extremely low. There is always a chance, but it is very low.
Click to expand...

The boldfaced section is why I carry a weapon. While I feel safe in my neighborhood, I remind myself that most victims of home invasion feel safe in their home until the event happens. We don't ever think it will happen to us, until it does. Further, I feel if I wait until I am being threatened to secure a weapon to protect my family and learn how to use it, then I have waited too long and have put my loved ones and myself in jepordy.
 
Over a decade ago, I was burglarized... I do not carry a gun due that reason alone... But it is a small factor.... I've also been verbally threatened in my own front yard by a trespasser who first threatened my spouse... Again only a factor... There has been self defense shootings in my neighborhood.

I've used a pistol to dispatch a dangerous animal more than I've used a spare tire... In the country of course....

The main reason I choose to carry is because it's my right to do so.... Just like in most cases my vote for president doesn't matter, but I do it because its my right...

I like to shoot guns for fun and to get outside more than anything.
 
Also many towns have no local law enforcement.... The town in which my job is located has one officer.
Some areas only a handful of officers cover 1000 or more square miles.
 
I never carried a gun (or rarely carried a gun) until some circumstances changed which required that I go to areas that have a higher crime rate. Everyone must evaluate their own situation. I am not one of those that believes that everyone needs to carry a gun for personal safety.
 
I'm an older guy and live a pretty safe, sedate life in a remarkably low-crime area. I fully expect to live out my life without ever having to deal with a violent confrontation. The odds are definitely with me.

However, as long as the risk factor remains other than zero, I choose to be as prepared as I can afford to be.

BTW, in my nice, safe neighborhood, I have had two good friends and one acquaintance who, in the past 15 years or so, were murdered in their homes (and none was an act of domestic violence).

YMMV

W.
 
I think a good case can be made for carrying despite the low likelihood of it being needed versus the seriousness of not having a gun when it is needed, but what is not logical is the amount of thought and effort put into the choice of the gun to carry. On this and other forums there is endless (it seems) discussion of which caliber is the best for self defense, which gun is the best, whether a revolver can do the job as well or better than a semi-auto, etc., etc., and so on. I usually just smile to myself at the absurdity of those on these forums that talk about carrying two or even three guns, or those who have a gun hidden in each and every room of their home, or those who feel anything less than a 15 round 45acp is a waste of effort.

To me, carrying a gun is a bit like buying flood insurance: it is highly unlikely where I live but if the cost is low it is worth it against the small but real risk of flooding. Obsessing about which gun, or carrying multiple guns is like buying insurance against having your home hit by a meteorite and endlessly preparing for such an occurrence.

Bottom line: if you feel better about spending your life preparing for a small but real threat, good for you. Likewise if you make a modest effort to prepare for a very modest risk. To each their own.
 
Same reason I have life insurance

I like the fire extinguisher analogy -
I've owned a modern-production, ABC-compliant, fully-charged and regularly-checked fire extinguisher in my car and home my entire life. I've never so much as pulled the pin on one outside of my training as an RA in college.
Click to expand...

I have always compared it to having life insurance when people wonder why someone wants to carry a gun. I have a life insurance policy so that if the worst case scenario ever played out, my family is financially protected and their lives will be easier while dealing with me being gone (or my wife being gone). Carrying a weapon is the same thing, but instead of financial security, we are talking about their physical security, If that worst case scenario were to ever happen, I want a means to protect myself and my family from that harm.

Beyond that, I have the personal reason of not being able to live with myself if something were to ever happen to my family and I decided to not be prepared and was unable to defend my family.

I hope this helps as deciding and being dedicated to carrying a weapon is not an easy choice, and is an intimately personal one.
 
While the % chance of a random person needing a gun to protect themselves or family is very low, when it happens to you, it's 100%. Be prepared.
 
One can find oneself in a situation where the gun is not used, nor drawn, but simply the fact the you have it on your person brings a certain amount of relief.

There have been three times when I've found my self in perceived peril. All three ended without incident. But I could have very well been a victim had I not been prepared to defend myself.
 
Psy I don't know that I would still consider your area remarkably low in crime if people you know are getting killed in their own homes.

I don't expect to need it but if I need it then I REALLY need it.

I like what someone said on the first page. It's not about the odds, it's about the cost.
 
OP. Never feel that way. You have millions of brothers and sisters just like you. I carry 24/7 the only time my gun is away from my body is when I'm in the shower or I'm asleep, and even then it's less than a foot away from me. Welcome to 2013.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There have been conservative estimates ranging from 100,000 DGUs (defensive gun uses) to 350,000 per year. Let's use 100,000. There are 318 million people in the United States. Let's pretend they're all adults. That would mean 3 out of every 10,000 people in the US use a firearm defensively each year. Looks unimpressive, right?

Wait.

There are only 80,000,000 estimated gun owners in the US, which means that only 80,000,000 US citizens COULD use a firearm defensively. Still assuming the 100,000 number, we now have 1 out of every 1,000 owners using a firearm defensively each year.

Wait.

There are around 9,000,000 total concealed carry licensees in the US, and only a few states where people carry without a license. To account for off duty LEOs, we'll add 1 million carriers. To account for people with multiple CHLs, let's subtract 500,000. Of the 7.5 million non LEOs, let's assume a HIGH estimate of 33% actually carrying each day. 2.5 mil plus 1 mil equals 3.5 million carriers -- roughly a pool of 1% of the US population, who could use a firearm defensively outside of the home.

So, using intentionally conservative estimates, we have:

About 318,000,000 potential victims suffering 440,000 gun crimes. That's 1:1,000 victimization rate.

vs 1:1000 owners with DGUs each year...

...and that doesn't account for the slant that would result if we found a way to account for the number of violent crimes that take place outside the home, which reduces the pool of possible DGUs.


While this is all estimation, I have been conservative at every point, and the rate of DGU exceeds the rate of victimization, when accounting for possible victims and possible defenders.

I'm sure there are people who could do this far more justice than I could. I am simply amazed that I have never seen DGUs expressed as a rate among those who could possibly effect them.

Do I think it's actually practical to carry? Well... Yeah. One of those DGUs was me.
 
Addendum:

Edited to correct sleepy math...

With about 5.3 million violent crimes committed each year vs 318 million people, that's 1 in 60 victimized.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top