Controlled Round Feed, thoughts...

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"The pressure was so high it discolored the action on my CZ 550 Lott!!! I had to use a piece of wood to beat the round back out of the chamber ... not good during a lion charge..."
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Actually I beat the bolt handle, which then still ejected the round with the force being applied on the bolt handle during the beat down. This showed me how well the extractor worked, as it kept its grip even in these dire circumstances! A push feed extractor would have broken or skipped over the rim!
 
I am a Fan of the Controlled Feed Bolt Action Rifle, The Most Dangerous Game that I hunt is Wild Boar, but I use a Ruger M77 for that.

What shocked me, is that Larry Poterfields Dangerous Game Rifle is a Push Feed.
I saw it on Midway USAs Wednesday Night at the Range.
Larry is a Highly Skilled Professional Gunsmith, It suprises me that he would choose a Push Feed for his Safari Rifle. He has probably forgotten more about guns than most people will ever know. :confused:

I buy Reloading Supplies from His Buisness, and Love Midway USA.
 
What shocked me, is that Larry Poterfields Dangerous Game Rifle is a Push Feed
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You can afford that luxury when you have a Pro Hunter behind you with a CRF rifle!:D

Walking the bush along the Russian River in Alaska by yourself is another story. No expensive backup rifleman, no help, and no quarter if you make a mistake...

Besides, some of the most known men do the most dumb things ... that is why some of them get dead, and getting dead in Africa is an easy to do!
 
You can afford that luxury when you have a Pro Hunter behind you with a CRF rifle!
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I doubt that many people consider it a luxury to have someone else shoot your game for you after you've paid the money and spent the time to hunt dangerous game in Africa.

I've heard this argument, but I can't believe that anyone would spend the considerable amount of time and money it takes to hunt dangerous game in Africa and do so with a gun they truly believe is inferior because they know they have a PH as backup.

Even more upsetting would be spending all that money and time and then having your PH actually make the kill because the rifle that you carried over there knowing it to be inferior, jammed after the first shot and he had to do the honors.

So what we've got is one of two possibilities if we truly assume that a person would carry a rifle they believe to be inferior to hunt dangerous game in Africa.

1. A hunter who cares enough about hunting to spend the time and effort to hunt dangerous game in Africa but doesn't actually care about hunting dangerous game in Africa because he doesn't care if his PH does the shooting for him.

2. A hunter who cares enough about hunting to spend the time and effort to hunt dangerous game in Africa but doesn't care enough about hunting to buy a decent rifle.

Both of those are contradictory situations because the person must simultaneously both care a lot and not care about hunting.

We are also forced to assume that this person who hasn't been able to use simple logic up to this point without being clearly contradictory IS able to use logic to decide that it doesn't matter if he gets in a jam due to his inferior weapon because his PH will bail him out.

So now this person has to be both logical and illogical and both care about and not care about hunting all at once.

I have to conclude that it's highly unlikely that anyone would go to Africa to hunt dangerous game with a rifle they actually believe is not up to the task and that's whether or not there's a PH to provide backup.
had problems with a few push feeds to include my Custom shop KS Remington 350 mag.
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What sort of problems?
 
ive used both and have never had a problem with either. Ive got a buddy who goes to africa just about every year and probably owns near a 100 rifles. i asked him what his favorite rifle for africa was and he said his custom shop 416 rem 700. I asked him about his opinion on controlled round feeding and he said he had never had a single problem with a push feed gun and asked many guides and hunters about this question and had never once heard of an actual problem with a push feed gun. He said that a few guides told him that back in the day when factory ammo was sketchy at best for quality that some problems with over pressure would crop up and cause stick extration and that in that case the guides would prefer a mauser with its bigger and stonger extractor but bottom line is if your in that prediciment your not going to get the bolt open without beating it anyway and by that time whatever wants to stomp you is going to have done it allready. Same goes for feeding upside down. If your into that much trouble chances are 99 percent of us arent going to be cool enough to get it done anyway. there may be small advantages to controled round feeding for a guide on a dangerous game hunt that has to protect his client but for the normal guy on safari its a moot point. More a discussion for so called internet experts then any real world differnces.
 
The controlled round feed rifle is better machinery to me. I grew up in a tool and die shop that my late dad owned. I used to turn parts by pulling on the lathes leather belt when I was a child. He would not let me turn on the motor.

I operated Bridgeports, drill presses, threaded parts and more. I still have one of his lathes and other tools running in my basement.

A push feed gun is just fine. My eyes enjoy watching the machinery work.

Also those who have had failures with second rate machinery don't post.

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I have to conclude that it's highly unlikely that anyone would go to Africa to hunt dangerous game with a rifle they actually believe is not up to the task and that's whether or not there's a PH to provide backup.
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Your premise is incorrect. Some folks do it because they Don't know better ... this is why some folks get A's in school, and some a C! Everyone is not the same, which your premise is based on... Period...
 
ive used both and have never had a problem with either. Ive got a buddy who goes to africa just about every year and probably owns near a 100 rifles. i asked him
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Some of you guys are funny. This one sounds like a TV commercial, "I am NOT a doctor, but I Play one on TV."

"My Friend said, My doctor said..."

Funny, experts by proxy!!!:)

You have to admit these forums draw out different kind of folks!:eek:

THE POINT OF THE POST IS YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ON THE SUBJECT MATTER. IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED TENNIS, MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T POST AN OPINE ON HOW TO SERVE LIKE Björn Borg!
 
Bill id have to guess ive killed as much game with bolt guns as anyone here. NO i havent been to africa and dont claim to have. Now tell us what you base all your advice on? How many elephants and cape buffalo charges have you stopped!! I shoot and shoot alot. I also listen to guys i personaly know that have experience. Not to someone on the computer that has more keyboard experience then actually game killing experience. Best check on who your slamming. Ive got as much or more experience loading casting and shooting all forms of firearms then most. I use my real name on every fourm i go on and am respected on all of them.
 
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Now tell us what you base all your advice on?
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I have been to Africa 3 times, with one World Record entry in the SCI book!

But, and there always is a but in life, this is not about me, it is not a peeing contest as previously stated, it is your opine based on experience ... NOTE, it doesn't say African experience ... on the CRF in dangerous situations.

That is all...

I will say again, I feel more comfortable with a CRF action when confronted by dangerous game than with a push-feed action. What have you (You, as in you all)???
 
well thats just fine. Keep in mind though that your opinion isnt worth a plugged nickle more then anyone elses and it doesnt give you the right to slam someone elses. I gave my opinion of it too. Didnt slam yours.
 
Sheesh simmer down, guys. I have killed elk with a Remington 700 and a Ruger M77. The only failure I've ever had while hunting was with a sidelock Thomson Center, and that was an issue with the cap. Frankly, the hunting we do is pretty rough on a rifle and it is dusty out here most of the time, especially after the fire came through. I've never had a failure to feed with factory or reloaded ammunition with either rifle. I've never had a failure to extract, either. If I had to count on a rifle to feed upside down, it would probably be a good story to tell later. If I had to go for dangerous game anywhere, I'd take either rifle in a scaled up caliber suitable for the task.

Savage 99, is that a Saiga?
 
well thats just fine. Keep in mind though that your opinion isnt worth a plugged nickle more then anyone elses and it doesnt give you the right to slam someone elses. I gave my opinion of it too. Didnt slam yours.
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You are right, my opinion is maybe less than a nickel, but I am not sure what a plugged nickel is!:) I was trying not to be personal, just point, counterpoint, nothing personal my friend. My style in writing may not come across as such at times as I am direct, but in person it is easier to read facial expression, etc, and not have as much tension depending on interpretation of the written word, which is based on culture, style, and even where you are from!
 
The Guide after getting out of a long recovery and stay in the hospital went back to guiding and bought a controlled round feed bolt action heavy rifle and then thought better of it and went out and bought a second rifle a double rifle.
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emphasis mine.

If I were to hunt dangerous game, from jumbo down to magic grizzly, I'd use a four bore double. That is not likely to happen.

I'm another person that has never had a problem with either CFR or PFR.
Most of the problems people have when it comes time to shoot is operator error.
 
THE POINT OF THE POST IS YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ON THE SUBJECT MATTER. IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED TENNIS, MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T POST AN OPINE ON HOW TO SERVE LIKE Björn Borg!
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That's simply silly. There are lots of thing that can be learned without direct experience. It is the ultimate in the appeal to authority error.
I f a person has hunted any type of medium or large game, it is not a big jump to hunting other types of game. They simply have to be shown where to put the bullet.
I have never hunted bear, don't want to don't care for the taste, but I'm pretty sure I could kill one without too much difficulty.
 
Under normal circumstances a PF will feed just as reliably as CRF, and do it upside down just as well.
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With this I will contend, with push feed there isn't any accomodation to counter gravity.
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With either type the cartridge does not completely snap free from the magazine feed lips until the cartridge is almost all the way into the chamber. Gravity has no chance to work.

I'll repeat, both types feed into the chamber equally well. Both types are just as reliable if clean and clean in spec ammo is used.

The CRF rifles extraction and ejection system is much more rugged and bulletproof and will continue to work with a rifle that is filthy, abused, or with muddy ammo that is loaded into the chamber. That could be an advantage when facing dangerous game, but it is a myth that a CRF feeds more reliably. I prefer CRF, but because it is a more rugged design.
 
I f a person has hunted any type of medium or large game, it is not a big jump to hunting other types of game. They simply have to be shown where to put the bullet.
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Negative ... lions, leopards and some species of bear hunt you back! Seriously, you wound a deer who cares, you wound one of the dangerous ones you have a whole new world where your skill sets are quite different, NOT SIMPLY as you have suggested. This is not a joke, these animals will kill you, and simply put, where to put a bullet on a charging lion that is a blur doesn't come simply! I have seen lions run so fast after stuff ... they are literally a blur, I am not kidding. Do not disrespect them by putting them in any parameter to compare them to hunting non-predators. That is silly by any means!

A broadside whitetail compared to a 1000 pound charging head-on Brownie, and you think it is the same?

No offense, but you may want to reconsider your thoughts with that one. But, and there always is a but in life, you still should develop the skills to handle such, as deer, and elk have attacked before. Just shooting a rifle means nothing to the skill sets we are talking about. One shot boom, take your eyes off the target to rack another, and then line up the scope ... NO, that don't work in the long grass or the elders of Alaska.

A lion can cover a football field in less than 4 seconds, at 20 yards we are talking parts of seconds ... you wouldn't even get your rifle to your shoulder. They are not like a car coming at you at 45mph, they are bouncing up and down whilst going side to side with each paw digging and kicking up dirt to launch, all you see is tawny colors and teeth! Bears busting out of the brush are similar ... a 'Joe' deer or elk hunter wouldn't even get a shot off or be in a position to do so in most cases. This is a hard skill to acquire, and it takes years to develop ... it is not something that should be excused with such disrespect...

This is where EXPERIENCE comes in!
 
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keep in mind though that you can go on 20 safaris and still never aquire those skills. We were at a linebaugh seminar once where they had a charging bear target. these guys are some of the best handgun shots in the world but even that target of a bear comming at them would put so much pressure on them that many couldnt even put a shot on the target let alone a kill shot. I personaly think its more of your mental makeup then it is how well you or your rifle shoots and it sure aint going to make a pinch whether its a remington or a ruger or a mauser! I guess thats why were not dangerous game guides and why there nessisary on a dangerous game hunt.
 
keep in mind though that you can go on 20 safaris and still never aquire those skills.
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This is absolutely true! One of the most famous/notorious PH's is Cotton Gordon, who I knew personally in Colorado. He said ... here I go with a friend said story ... some guys, mainly very rich, some from the middle east of high level of society ... show up with a double-rifle they have never shot, or shot any gun, but want to hunt elephants...

I am mainly talking about self-defense situations where you have to handle it yourself, and lions would not be the case for most of us. We have to have Pros with us while in most African Countries, and Alaska if hunting situations for dangerous game if you do not have relatives as I do there:) Self-defense situations you probably will be without a Pro in most cases...
 
Whatever you get, be sure it works.
An Intrepid Nimrod here bought a major big name gunzine endorsed multi kilobuck CRF. It just HAD to be better than the Remington he took to Africa the first time, right?
Wrong.
It would not feed much of anything, never mind controlled. The maker was not much help, he replaced a bad part with a bad part. Eventually FLG spent a lot of time making a different model's magazine follower fit and get rounds up and aimed at the chamber.

Being a target rather than game shooter I always say there is a special name for people who enter a match with untried gear: Loser.
In Africa or Alaska it could be worse - Dinner.
 
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