Confessions of a *gag* McCain Supporter
- Thread starter Monty
- Start date
Wuchak posted:
Sorry ATTT but the Clinton years were a whole lot better than the Bush years have been. I didn't like Clinton but he did a better job than George and his crew. When Clinton left office the economy was good, we were talking about budget surpluses, we weren't involved in a war, and the powers of the Federal Government were much smaller. It didn't take the Republicans too long to turn all that around.
When Clinton left office we were in full recession. The surpluses were "projected" surpluses and included the Social Security fund. The general fund was not in surplus. Clintons lack of action on terrorism certainly contributed to the attacks on 9/11. Those attacks were actively being planned a long time before Bush took office. Clinton, like Bush, increased the powers of the Federal government, where ever he could. For example, the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban happened under Clinton.
Now, don't get me wrong. Bush has indeed increased the power of the federal government in ways that scare me, just as Clinton did. Bush's economy has not been that bad until the past 8 or nine months, especially considering the recession Clinton left and the immediate attack on 9/11 less than a year after Bush took his oath. Let's not make Clinton out to be some kind of hero. He did some good, but he did a lot of bad. Bush is similar IMHO. If Clinton had been tougher on Saddam and terrorism in general, maybe Bush would have had no opportunity to take us to war.
Frankly the current Republican party scares me.
Me too, in the general sense.
-They had the Patriot Act sitting on a shelf for a long time just waiting for the chance to push this this package that tramples our rights. I think they were jumping for joy when the Towers fell because they knew their chance to get this abomination passed had arrived.
I don't agree with this at all.
There's a reason they only posted the full text 15 minutes before the vote. They think it's perfectly ok to allow federal agents to write their own search warrants and to make it a crime for you to tell anyone if you are served with one. No calls to your attorney to find out how to proceed or you go to prison. It's not even clear if you state that you have been served with one in court without committing a crime that can/will send you to prison. Seems to me that being able to speak freely is a fundamental right of all people. Here in the US it's supposed to be guarded by the Constitution.
This is scary, I agree.
-They have been behind the expansion of the police state and the erosion of our civil liberties under their stupid "War on Drugs".
Clinton's war on guns resulted in an expansion of police powers and erosion of our civil rights, as well. Clinton also prosecuted the war on drugs, just as all presidents have since it started.
-They seem to be proud that the US now has a greater percentage of our people in prison than any other country in the world. One in 100 people is now behind bars. Most for non-violent drug offenses.
Most of our prison population is full of violent criminals and illegal immigrants who have committed crimes, including drug violations. So, you may be correct in one aspect, but not entirely correct. The war on drugs is a failure, but it doesn't account for the majority of our prison population. George Will recently wrote about this:
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will062208.php3
-They believe that it's perfectly fine to lock people up indefinitely without charging them with a crime.
I don't have a problem with this if they are people fighting US forces on a battlefield and are not affiliated with any nation state, and are not wearing any uniform. They should be labeled as enemy combatants. They should be have a military tribunal to deal with them.
-They believe that it's fine to TORTURE people!
This can get into what the meaning of "TORTURE" is. Some people claim that if you put a pair of underwear on a prisoners head and take a picture of them, that's torture. I would part ways with that definition of torture.
Does this sound like a group that has basic respect for people? Right now they cannot use some of these powers on US Citizens but you can bet they are hard at work figuring out how they are going to do exactly that. They are already getting in trouble for having abused some of these new powers and using them on US Citizens. No surprise there.
I am getting the feeling that the federal government, no matter who is in charge, has no respect for the people anymore. This is an issue which is larger than Bush, Clinton, Democrat, or Republican.
Somehow we made it through WWI, WWII, the Korean War, Vietnam, Desert Storm, and numerous other conflicts around the world without torturing people. Now that we are fighting a bunch of people hiding in caves suddenly it's necessary? With terrorism they have exactly what they have drooled over for decades. An invisible enemy that can never be defeated so war becomes perpetual and the erosion of our civil liberties to fight it just increases.
Are you sure we never tortured anyone in all of those wars and conflicts? We may never have had a policy that "waterboarding" was OK, in very narrow circumstances. But even under Bush, random, brutal, torture, has never been the policy.
The Republicans are a flippin' scarry bunch. Obama might tax me but McCain just might drag me away in the middle of the night and lock me up and torture me. If he thinks it's ok to do it to one group that has not been convicted or even accused of a crime then he thinks it ok to do it me.
I thought one of the reasons the moderates and the media had so much respect for McCain is because he broke from Bush and said that he would not allow even waterboarding, as he considered it torture, and he knew what torture was all about. I think your paranoia with respect to McCain dragging you off in the middle of the night is more about Moveon.org propaganda.
I'll never vote for another Republican in this lifetime. Their true colors have shown through and what is see is a group that is so power hungry they have lost basic respect for humanity.
I am not very pleased with the Republican party for many reasons. However, there are still honorable republicans out there. If you will never vote for another republican, does that mean you will now always vote for democrats, or are you going to resort to the third party route, vote for none of the above, or abstain from voting?
Sorry ATTT but the Clinton years were a whole lot better than the Bush years have been. I didn't like Clinton but he did a better job than George and his crew. When Clinton left office the economy was good, we were talking about budget surpluses, we weren't involved in a war, and the powers of the Federal Government were much smaller. It didn't take the Republicans too long to turn all that around.
When Clinton left office we were in full recession. The surpluses were "projected" surpluses and included the Social Security fund. The general fund was not in surplus. Clintons lack of action on terrorism certainly contributed to the attacks on 9/11. Those attacks were actively being planned a long time before Bush took office. Clinton, like Bush, increased the powers of the Federal government, where ever he could. For example, the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban happened under Clinton.
Now, don't get me wrong. Bush has indeed increased the power of the federal government in ways that scare me, just as Clinton did. Bush's economy has not been that bad until the past 8 or nine months, especially considering the recession Clinton left and the immediate attack on 9/11 less than a year after Bush took his oath. Let's not make Clinton out to be some kind of hero. He did some good, but he did a lot of bad. Bush is similar IMHO. If Clinton had been tougher on Saddam and terrorism in general, maybe Bush would have had no opportunity to take us to war.
Frankly the current Republican party scares me.
Me too, in the general sense.
-They had the Patriot Act sitting on a shelf for a long time just waiting for the chance to push this this package that tramples our rights. I think they were jumping for joy when the Towers fell because they knew their chance to get this abomination passed had arrived.
I don't agree with this at all.
There's a reason they only posted the full text 15 minutes before the vote. They think it's perfectly ok to allow federal agents to write their own search warrants and to make it a crime for you to tell anyone if you are served with one. No calls to your attorney to find out how to proceed or you go to prison. It's not even clear if you state that you have been served with one in court without committing a crime that can/will send you to prison. Seems to me that being able to speak freely is a fundamental right of all people. Here in the US it's supposed to be guarded by the Constitution.
This is scary, I agree.
-They have been behind the expansion of the police state and the erosion of our civil liberties under their stupid "War on Drugs".
Clinton's war on guns resulted in an expansion of police powers and erosion of our civil rights, as well. Clinton also prosecuted the war on drugs, just as all presidents have since it started.
-They seem to be proud that the US now has a greater percentage of our people in prison than any other country in the world. One in 100 people is now behind bars. Most for non-violent drug offenses.
Most of our prison population is full of violent criminals and illegal immigrants who have committed crimes, including drug violations. So, you may be correct in one aspect, but not entirely correct. The war on drugs is a failure, but it doesn't account for the majority of our prison population. George Will recently wrote about this:
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will062208.php3
-They believe that it's perfectly fine to lock people up indefinitely without charging them with a crime.
I don't have a problem with this if they are people fighting US forces on a battlefield and are not affiliated with any nation state, and are not wearing any uniform. They should be labeled as enemy combatants. They should be have a military tribunal to deal with them.
-They believe that it's fine to TORTURE people!
This can get into what the meaning of "TORTURE" is. Some people claim that if you put a pair of underwear on a prisoners head and take a picture of them, that's torture. I would part ways with that definition of torture.
Does this sound like a group that has basic respect for people? Right now they cannot use some of these powers on US Citizens but you can bet they are hard at work figuring out how they are going to do exactly that. They are already getting in trouble for having abused some of these new powers and using them on US Citizens. No surprise there.
I am getting the feeling that the federal government, no matter who is in charge, has no respect for the people anymore. This is an issue which is larger than Bush, Clinton, Democrat, or Republican.
Somehow we made it through WWI, WWII, the Korean War, Vietnam, Desert Storm, and numerous other conflicts around the world without torturing people. Now that we are fighting a bunch of people hiding in caves suddenly it's necessary? With terrorism they have exactly what they have drooled over for decades. An invisible enemy that can never be defeated so war becomes perpetual and the erosion of our civil liberties to fight it just increases.
Are you sure we never tortured anyone in all of those wars and conflicts? We may never have had a policy that "waterboarding" was OK, in very narrow circumstances. But even under Bush, random, brutal, torture, has never been the policy.
The Republicans are a flippin' scarry bunch. Obama might tax me but McCain just might drag me away in the middle of the night and lock me up and torture me. If he thinks it's ok to do it to one group that has not been convicted or even accused of a crime then he thinks it ok to do it me.
I thought one of the reasons the moderates and the media had so much respect for McCain is because he broke from Bush and said that he would not allow even waterboarding, as he considered it torture, and he knew what torture was all about. I think your paranoia with respect to McCain dragging you off in the middle of the night is more about Moveon.org propaganda.
I'll never vote for another Republican in this lifetime. Their true colors have shown through and what is see is a group that is so power hungry they have lost basic respect for humanity.
I am not very pleased with the Republican party for many reasons. However, there are still honorable republicans out there. If you will never vote for another republican, does that mean you will now always vote for democrats, or are you going to resort to the third party route, vote for none of the above, or abstain from voting?
armedtotheteeth
New member
I was in the Military during the Clinton years. That man appeared to hate the military. Budgets where cut, immensly. And Retarded operations where planned such as sending the entire US NAVY after drug boats. Keeping Sailors at sea for many months on end to do retarded Operations such as these, with no money for critical spare parts on board.
Clintons cutbacks in the CIA and FBI absolutley did affect Al qaidas ability to operate and train in our own damn country how to kill us. Had the budget not been cut for the CIA/FBI, this critical intel would have been discovered long before 9 11. Clinton dropped the ball, right after he passed the AWB of the 90s. In that amount of time he managed to get a little obscene in in the oval office with a fat chic, and get impeached.
Obama is a Communist. He doesnt even deserve to even BE in our country, Much less , be President. He has his own agenda planned, and I dont like it. He calls it "change" . What will infuriate me is that moron will get elected because he is "cool" by College kids who think he will help save a free or a Polar bear. He will make us look like Ninnies when he pulls out of IRAQ unfinished, only to have to return again and retake the place. He also plans on severly reducing our right to bear arms, maybe even reapeal it all together. Just do a little search on him and the UN global small arms ban. Youll be surprise what he wants, but is hiding!
Clintons cutbacks in the CIA and FBI absolutley did affect Al qaidas ability to operate and train in our own damn country how to kill us. Had the budget not been cut for the CIA/FBI, this critical intel would have been discovered long before 9 11. Clinton dropped the ball, right after he passed the AWB of the 90s. In that amount of time he managed to get a little obscene in in the oval office with a fat chic, and get impeached.
Obama is a Communist. He doesnt even deserve to even BE in our country, Much less , be President. He has his own agenda planned, and I dont like it. He calls it "change" . What will infuriate me is that moron will get elected because he is "cool" by College kids who think he will help save a free or a Polar bear. He will make us look like Ninnies when he pulls out of IRAQ unfinished, only to have to return again and retake the place. He also plans on severly reducing our right to bear arms, maybe even reapeal it all together. Just do a little search on him and the UN global small arms ban. Youll be surprise what he wants, but is hiding!