Condi Rice for President
- Thread starter Dusey
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MicroBalrog
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She has stated she does not want to run. Isn't that basically enough?
Hugh Damright
New member
Handy,
Egalitarianism is more a Northern trait. I consider it valueless. It leads to things like women soldiers and homosexual marriage. That is why I say that Southerners have values when they recognize that there are differences between the genders and the races.
I do not think a black woman president would be immoral and wrong as you suggest. I do think a homosexual president would be immoral and wrong. But I think a black woman president would be a bad idea for many reasons. Although I have found that egalitarians cannot be reasoned with, I will make an attempt to briefly point out a few of my concerns.
One of my concerns about having a black woman as POTUS or Secretary of State regards how that fits foreign cultures. For instance, in some cultures a woman cannot show her face. And other cultures, Japan for instance, simply do no respect blacks the same as whites. Sending a black woman delegate to Japan is about like sending a dwarf or something ... not that there is anything wrong with being a dwarf, but I wouldn't consider it a courtesy to send a dwarf to a foreign land as my delegate, and I think some might think it an insult.
It has been my experience in life that blacks and women tend to be concerned with their own issues, their special interests, more than the general welfare. It has also been my experience that they tend to promote/appoint other blacks and women, not because they are the best qualified, but because of their race/gender.
And part of it is that people simply like a delegate who resembles them. I would prefer a Southern white heterosexual male POTUS, and I am proud of it. If you think it shouldn't matter whether a POTUS is a Southern white heterosexual male or a black Yankee lesbian, then I guess we disagree. But let me make clear that I do not see your egalitarianism as such a high horse as you presume.
Egalitarianism is more a Northern trait. I consider it valueless. It leads to things like women soldiers and homosexual marriage. That is why I say that Southerners have values when they recognize that there are differences between the genders and the races.
I do not think a black woman president would be immoral and wrong as you suggest. I do think a homosexual president would be immoral and wrong. But I think a black woman president would be a bad idea for many reasons. Although I have found that egalitarians cannot be reasoned with, I will make an attempt to briefly point out a few of my concerns.
One of my concerns about having a black woman as POTUS or Secretary of State regards how that fits foreign cultures. For instance, in some cultures a woman cannot show her face. And other cultures, Japan for instance, simply do no respect blacks the same as whites. Sending a black woman delegate to Japan is about like sending a dwarf or something ... not that there is anything wrong with being a dwarf, but I wouldn't consider it a courtesy to send a dwarf to a foreign land as my delegate, and I think some might think it an insult.
It has been my experience in life that blacks and women tend to be concerned with their own issues, their special interests, more than the general welfare. It has also been my experience that they tend to promote/appoint other blacks and women, not because they are the best qualified, but because of their race/gender.
And part of it is that people simply like a delegate who resembles them. I would prefer a Southern white heterosexual male POTUS, and I am proud of it. If you think it shouldn't matter whether a POTUS is a Southern white heterosexual male or a black Yankee lesbian, then I guess we disagree. But let me make clear that I do not see your egalitarianism as such a high horse as you presume.
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That is a ridiculous, sexist, racist thing to say. Rice is a better candidate by far than the last three presidents we've had. I'd better stop there before I say something that will get me banned.
I acknowledge that there are problems with women, particularly black women, as ambassadors to other nations that treat women differently from men. Since Hillary is a serious candidate, I don't think that's a good enough reason not to support Rice. I'm also not convinced we should be considering another country's views when choosing our own president. Are we not a sovereign nation? If you want us to be the World's police(wo)man, then by all means vote for someone who will be appealing to other nations. If they don't like our president, we can send someone else to represent us. Most nations think Bush is an idiot, and receive him merely out of courtesy. I don't see how an intelligent "minority" would be any worse.
Do you have evidence that our Secretary of State does those things?
The connection between egalitarianism and increased support of minorities is questionable. Suggesting that individualists/libertarians aren't as likely to support minorities is silly. Egalitarians may support minorities for no reason, but there are plenty of reasons to support Rice if she decides to run for President.
Amazing...
how one short post can insult:
blacks, women, foriegners in general, asians in particular, dwarves, muslims, southerners, notherners, gays, lesbians and white males without feces for brains.
I guess that leaves just butt scratchin', sheet wearin', mysoginistic, race baiting cracker types.
Southerners do have values, but xenophobic racist/sexist chest thumping doesn't fall under that heading.
Claims that women and blacks tend to look after their own issues instead of the general welfare maybe well founded, especially when confronted with folks who live to put them down and keep them down.
This goes way deeper than theorhetical egalitarianism. We're talking applying the practical fundamentals of democracy here; where each of us is endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, the most fundamental of these is to be respectfully treated as a human being, regardless of race, creed, gender or ability; as well as the opportunity to make the best of this gift from our Creator. That means both scholars and patriots like Ms. Rice as well as hate mongering rednecks.
how one short post can insult:
blacks, women, foriegners in general, asians in particular, dwarves, muslims, southerners, notherners, gays, lesbians and white males without feces for brains.
I guess that leaves just butt scratchin', sheet wearin', mysoginistic, race baiting cracker types.
Southerners do have values, but xenophobic racist/sexist chest thumping doesn't fall under that heading.
Claims that women and blacks tend to look after their own issues instead of the general welfare maybe well founded, especially when confronted with folks who live to put them down and keep them down.
This goes way deeper than theorhetical egalitarianism. We're talking applying the practical fundamentals of democracy here; where each of us is endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, the most fundamental of these is to be respectfully treated as a human being, regardless of race, creed, gender or ability; as well as the opportunity to make the best of this gift from our Creator. That means both scholars and patriots like Ms. Rice as well as hate mongering rednecks.
I am just curious why anyone would give one second's thought to nominating someone whom the prezident hung out to dry for misleading the American public on the "evidence" that allegedly was the cause for invading Iraq. Not saying it's true, but for those of you that are willing to believe everything else coming from Capitol Hill... Do you just like being lied to?
Now that's a point worth debating. I believe that Dr. Rice would have a great deal of explaining to do and that the Dems would rip her in the media incessantly.
However, if were still talking a head to head with Hillery...she brings plenty of baggage to the party as well. Mud wrestling at it's worst.
However, if were still talking a head to head with Hillery...she brings plenty of baggage to the party as well. Mud wrestling at it's worst.
Hugh Damright
New member
Funny ... I was opposed to the action in Iraq until Condi explained it. I didn't see the connection with 9/11, until she explained that it was not an isolated incident (as I recall there was also the U.S. Cole and an Embassy bombing). I came to see that the US could not keep "swatting flies" as Bush described it, but must do something real, like consider States that foster and harbor terrorists to be our enemies.
Maybe she fooled me and she's just lying for Bush. I must admit that I was taken with her personality ... she appeared to me to be a Southerner with integrity, not some lying puppet-girl politician.
It's hard for me to get my mind around ... on the one hand I detest world police and nation builders ... but then on the other hand we cannot just sit on our hands while foreign factions grow stronger and go from using our commercial airlines against us to using chemical/nuclear/biological weapons. This isn't the days of the muskets, and a small group can wipe out a large group. Scary stuff.
I'll add that when 9/11 occurred, I am glad that we had a man there, like George W. Bush, instead of a girl, like .... Al Gore.
Maybe she fooled me and she's just lying for Bush. I must admit that I was taken with her personality ... she appeared to me to be a Southerner with integrity, not some lying puppet-girl politician.
It's hard for me to get my mind around ... on the one hand I detest world police and nation builders ... but then on the other hand we cannot just sit on our hands while foreign factions grow stronger and go from using our commercial airlines against us to using chemical/nuclear/biological weapons. This isn't the days of the muskets, and a small group can wipe out a large group. Scary stuff.
I'll add that when 9/11 occurred, I am glad that we had a man there, like George W. Bush, instead of a girl, like .... Al Gore.
Well then, I guess it's just a shame she doesn't fit with your good ol' fashioned racist and sexist "values", Hugh.
I'm amazed how someone can proudly be a citizen of a country where all are created equal, and use "egalitarianism" as a swear word. Of course, I grew up in an area that didn't "value" lynchings, either. So what do I know?
I think most normal people never really understand that bigots are actually proud of themselves. It's like having pride in poor personal hygeine.
Anyone ever notice that Margarent Thatcher and Indira Ghandi were actually women? My God, how could they possibly deal with foreign nations? That must be why England and India no longer exist.
I'm amazed how someone can proudly be a citizen of a country where all are created equal, and use "egalitarianism" as a swear word. Of course, I grew up in an area that didn't "value" lynchings, either. So what do I know?
I think most normal people never really understand that bigots are actually proud of themselves. It's like having pride in poor personal hygeine.
Anyone ever notice that Margarent Thatcher and Indira Ghandi were actually women? My God, how could they possibly deal with foreign nations? That must be why England and India no longer exist.
oystermick
New member
Well Hugh,
Your life experience is obviously quite parochial. Hugh, this may come as a shock, but most of the world's population is not Southern white heterosexual males. I would submit to you, that battle was lost in Gettysburg, on July 3, 1863 by Southern white heterosexual males who made egregiously bad decisions. Now, given your feeble attempt to put forth an argument that Southern white heterosexual males are superior leaders, would you please explain Jimmy Carter. LBJ, Bob Byrd, just to name three? Sir, get over it.
Your life experience is obviously quite parochial. Hugh, this may come as a shock, but most of the world's population is not Southern white heterosexual males. I would submit to you, that battle was lost in Gettysburg, on July 3, 1863 by Southern white heterosexual males who made egregiously bad decisions. Now, given your feeble attempt to put forth an argument that Southern white heterosexual males are superior leaders, would you please explain Jimmy Carter. LBJ, Bob Byrd, just to name three? Sir, get over it.
armedandsafe
New member
"Incrementalism" is a word used quite often on these forums. How's this for an example: Barr/Rice?
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MeekAndMild
New member
That's probably the most 'difficult' analogy I've ever read here. congradulations.
Then again there are other countries where the family matriarch is the most important political figure. I won't comment about countries where women are not allowed to show their faces except to say you should be glad I'm not president.
"I do believe that the Deep South would vote for a proven black female conservative who is pro-God, pro-gun, as well as a part of the present administration."
+1
I am a fat white 8th generation conservative southern male.
As a direct counter to a Hitlery Klintoon prez bid, I believe that MANY of the Hugh Damrights, not to mention stereotypical barbecue chomping budweiser swilling burp and fart machines with a 7th grade education would see the alternative and cast that vote for Ms. Rice with a clear conscience and pure heart.
What hasn't been said is the thought of her not as prez, but on the ticket in the bridesmaid's slot with someone else at the top of the ticket. Jeb's a smarter guy than his brother, Bill Frist is no slouch, and there's a small roomfull of others who could form a nice ticket with Condi in one slot or the 'nother.
+1
I am a fat white 8th generation conservative southern male.
As a direct counter to a Hitlery Klintoon prez bid, I believe that MANY of the Hugh Damrights, not to mention stereotypical barbecue chomping budweiser swilling burp and fart machines with a 7th grade education would see the alternative and cast that vote for Ms. Rice with a clear conscience and pure heart.
What hasn't been said is the thought of her not as prez, but on the ticket in the bridesmaid's slot with someone else at the top of the ticket. Jeb's a smarter guy than his brother, Bill Frist is no slouch, and there's a small roomfull of others who could form a nice ticket with Condi in one slot or the 'nother.
Funny, Colin Powell's race never seemed to bother anyone, and as a shuttle diplomacy maven, he represented the face of the United States regularly. Now Dr. Rice does that.
The heads of state in even the most conservative countries are used to dealing with women, with blacks, and with other cultures. Could the Islamic countries deal with Dr. Rice? Well, they dealt with
Worrying about whether other countries will think less of us for putting "a black female" into office is silly. We're talking about a personality, not a token. While I support our current President and believe that he is way underestimated in his intelligence, there is NO WAY that Dr. Rice won't come off as at least as intelligent. And truth be told, she'll come off as far smarter.
Oh, and as for her denial of interest, that's simply par for a person waiting to be "drafted" into the position. "If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I shall not serve."
And finally, as a white, Southern, heterosexual male... I have to say that pretty much none of Hugh Damright's comments represent me.
