all these guy that suggest a larger caliber how many round do they shoot a week i betting not much guns a paper weight my buddy got ar-15 a dream gun but it sits in his gun cabnet cause he can't afford to shot it. my brother got a sw 41 snub nose can't afford to shoot my 22 might only be a plinker but i get to the range every week. where everyone is getting fewer and fewer shooting time cause money tight i rather see you buy a smaller caliber join a range and enjoy the sport of shooting then buy a large caliber not afford to shoot look at all the pro and cons and guy just in general if you are going to teach you woman to shoot start her out on a 22 so she will enjoy shooting i seen a girl this week try shooting a home defender mind you see never shoot before she ended up spliting her nose left the range in the meat wagon and her boyfriend said to the police what i shoot it all the time it aint got that much kick i bet she never shoots again. i know i started out on a 22 sure most of you did to remeber if you are going to advise some you know and they aint shoot much dont put a cannon in there hands someone going to get hurt that guy didn't even see it was his fault my gf started out on a 22 would not put any other gun in a beginner hands food for thought when when giving advise on shooting find out begginer intermiate advance this info will help you decide where to start
Concealment vs power
- Thread starter devil2006
- Start date
Edward429451
Moderator
300 dollars and HD is describing a used 357 Mag.
Thin k you asking about two situations, here
First you asking about a good CPL firearm and second what for home use.
Who else in home MAY have access to the HD firearm, what training do they have??
Will the wife need to use, what size is she? Can she handle recoil? Some type of shotgun might be ideal, or a 4" revolver/pistol, or maybe a M1 Carbine???
Need additional info for the home situation.
What have YOU trained with? what is comfortable for you to shoot accurately??
Use that as a basis for determining what to carry.
First you asking about a good CPL firearm and second what for home use.
Who else in home MAY have access to the HD firearm, what training do they have??
Will the wife need to use, what size is she? Can she handle recoil? Some type of shotgun might be ideal, or a 4" revolver/pistol, or maybe a M1 Carbine???
Need additional info for the home situation.
What have YOU trained with? what is comfortable for you to shoot accurately??
Use that as a basis for determining what to carry.
+1 on a small 357 revolver. The Ruger SP 101 is an exceptional choice, and I'd even consider the Taurus revolvers in your price range. Lots of Taurus haters our there, but the two Taurus revolvers I've owned were both flawless. That said, Ruger revolvers are built like tanks and would be my first choice.
Plus, an added bonus in a 357 revolver is the ability to shoot 38 loads for target work. Also, IMO everyone should own a wheel gun.
Plus, an added bonus in a 357 revolver is the ability to shoot 38 loads for target work. Also, IMO everyone should own a wheel gun.
stickhauler
New member
The Ruger LCP is a fine small pistol, it's my choice for when I have to go somewhere a larger pistol works. I can either pocket carry it or I have a case that looks just like a case for a Android cell phone that works well.
My usual carry is a Ruger SR-9 C in a Don Hume belt holster, wearing a T-shirt, and a regular shirt worn over it, unbuttoned, and not tucked in. I refuse to buy larger pants that would accommodate an inside the waist holster.
I can belt carry up to my 1911 that way with no issues dressed that way.
For home defense, I prefer a shotgun, I have a Mossberg 500, I believe the name they use for it is the "Enforcer." It's a pistol grip shotgun, with extended magazine tube that carries 8 in the magazine.
My usual carry is a Ruger SR-9 C in a Don Hume belt holster, wearing a T-shirt, and a regular shirt worn over it, unbuttoned, and not tucked in. I refuse to buy larger pants that would accommodate an inside the waist holster.
I can belt carry up to my 1911 that way with no issues dressed that way.
For home defense, I prefer a shotgun, I have a Mossberg 500, I believe the name they use for it is the "Enforcer." It's a pistol grip shotgun, with extended magazine tube that carries 8 in the magazine.
Just a little tidbit from an old geezer: don't worry too much about concealability, . . . get a gun YOU like, . . . one YOU can shoot well, . . . one that YOU will carry.
It all boils down to if YOU don't like it, . . . you won't carry it, . . . you won't get proficient with it.
I have 2 carry guns I rotate out, . . . a full size all steel 1911, . . . and a 4 in XD45. Both are big, . . . both are big bore, . . . both are heavy, . . . but a long time ago I decided that it was worth it to me not to get into a firefight and wind up needing more gun or more ammo.
Once you decide you are good with it, . . . you like it, . . . you will figure out how to dress around it, . . . and IT IS worth it in the long run, . . . if for nothing else, just the peace of mind.
One of your best bets for the most gun for each buck: check out some of the bigger urban gun shops for their police trade ins. Vance's Guns in Columbus, Ohio sometimes has for instance Sig 228's for something like $325. Police trades have a lot of holster wear, . . . but usually are virtually brand new inside. I know a guy who has one just like that.
May God bless,
Dwight
It all boils down to if YOU don't like it, . . . you won't carry it, . . . you won't get proficient with it.
I have 2 carry guns I rotate out, . . . a full size all steel 1911, . . . and a 4 in XD45. Both are big, . . . both are big bore, . . . both are heavy, . . . but a long time ago I decided that it was worth it to me not to get into a firefight and wind up needing more gun or more ammo.
Once you decide you are good with it, . . . you like it, . . . you will figure out how to dress around it, . . . and IT IS worth it in the long run, . . . if for nothing else, just the peace of mind.
One of your best bets for the most gun for each buck: check out some of the bigger urban gun shops for their police trade ins. Vance's Guns in Columbus, Ohio sometimes has for instance Sig 228's for something like $325. Police trades have a lot of holster wear, . . . but usually are virtually brand new inside. I know a guy who has one just like that.
May God bless,
Dwight
I don't have nearly as much experience as some of the guys here, but my Keltec P-11 has served me reliably, and has about 400 rds down through it, without a single malfunction. (Well, OK, there was one FTE when in the hands of a first-time shooter, likely limp-wristing.) Easy to conceal, cheap, pretty accurate.
morrisammo
Inactive
if you're going to practice,,, save your money get a glock, 9mm is fine, power is a myth,, bullet placement is the truth,
if you're not going to practice,, get a Taurus Revolver one with a full grip,, not that stubby,, thing,, 38 or 357,,, but shoot 38's in it,,
both guns are good guns,, no safety's switch to find,, with a revolver,, you can load it,, close the cylinder, and you,, know it is loaded,,
with an auto,, you load the magazine and must,, chamber a round. it is not a big thing,, but if you don't practice that,,,, you will have safety,, issues,, from your lack of,, practice,,
again Bullet placement,
if you point a 9mm at someone,,, I bet they will not say,,, that's only a 9mm.
you need a .45!!
if you're not going to practice,, get a Taurus Revolver one with a full grip,, not that stubby,, thing,, 38 or 357,,, but shoot 38's in it,,
both guns are good guns,, no safety's switch to find,, with a revolver,, you can load it,, close the cylinder, and you,, know it is loaded,,
with an auto,, you load the magazine and must,, chamber a round. it is not a big thing,, but if you don't practice that,,,, you will have safety,, issues,, from your lack of,, practice,,
again Bullet placement,
if you point a 9mm at someone,,, I bet they will not say,,, that's only a 9mm.
you need a .45!!
This stream-of-consciousness stuff is for the birds.
blkwulff, my apologies up front because I don't mean to be a post snob. Your opinion and input is just as valuable as anyone here, but this post is almost impossible to read. Please, for the sake of my sanity and others', take the time to use some punctuation.
morrisammo
Inactive
I'll qualify,, my comment,,,
9mm and .38 are as small as I would go,,,
but you don't need a .40+ cal,,, 458 mag this and that,,
smaller, calibers are better than nothing,,
I do not knowingly get it to trouble, and if trouble was coming after me.
That is why you have Police, the Army, and friends with Rifles! Not handgun anything,,
Rifle is the key word,,
a handgun is a last resort tool.. to break contact and get away.
9mm and .38 are as small as I would go,,,
but you don't need a .40+ cal,,, 458 mag this and that,,
smaller, calibers are better than nothing,,
I do not knowingly get it to trouble, and if trouble was coming after me.
That is why you have Police, the Army, and friends with Rifles! Not handgun anything,,
Rifle is the key word,,
a handgun is a last resort tool.. to break contact and get away.
Harry Callahan
New member
devil2006,
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you would definitely benefit from a class(NRA)in which you are introduced to gun safety and familiarized with guns of all kinds. This will help you choose a gun and also give you the confidence in knowing what you want and how to use it safely and effectively.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you would definitely benefit from a class(NRA)in which you are introduced to gun safety and familiarized with guns of all kinds. This will help you choose a gun and also give you the confidence in knowing what you want and how to use it safely and effectively.
I might as well throw in my 2 Cents.
From what I gather you probably do not own a handgun of any description. You also said you were looking for a house gun, so probably the wife will need to be able to shoot it.
Then we have concealable.
I would look at a police trade in revolver. I just bought a S&W model 64 in pretty good shape for $335 total cost. That is a Medium Frame 4" Heavy Barrel 38 Special. It is accurate, pleasant to shoot, and not excessively heavy for belt carry. A very good all around handgun, and reasonable affordable.
I always like to start women or any new handgun shooter for that matter, out on a K frame size 4" revolver. I would normally start someone on my 617 which is a 4" K Frame size 22 LR, with no recoil first. Then move on up to the 38 Special. The K Frame 4" is simple, reliable, and accurate.
A problem non-shooter women have with semiautomatics is limp wristing them. This will bring on a jam. Someone who is not gun friendly does not need a stopage at a serious moment. They will not get it cleared and shooting again untill after things are over. A K Frame S&W will shoot 6 times with almost complete confidence.
If your budget was not tight I would recommend a S&W 617 with a 6 shot cylinder in a 4" barrel version as ideal for your first handgun purchase. A second more affordable option would be a Taurus. As was mentioned above a 550 round brick of Federal 22 shells is $18.50 at Wal-Mart. You can afford to shoot it enough to get good with it. While not a perfect home defense gun, hitting your target with a 22 is better than missing with something bigger.
I personally like all my K, L, and N Frame revolvers to go bang 6 times. You can get 10 shot models, and that might be a better choice when this is your Only/First handgun purchase, for more fire power.
For the second gun I would then go with a K Frame S&W in a Model 10, 13, 15, 64, 65, 66, or 67. All the listed guns are 38 Special or 357 Magnum, which will shoot 38 Special. I would get a 4" model. All the above listed guns have the same grip and size as the 617 in 22 LR. They feel exactly the same. They will all fit in the same holster. So you can get a good holster for the 22 and it will work with your 38.
The L Frame 581, 586, 681, and 686 will also work, but may not fit your holster depending on what you get.
Now that we have some experiance, and are handgun friendly I would pick up a J Frame S&W Airweight again in a 38 Special. My choice would be either a 637 or a 638. The 637 has an exposed hammer and is easy to cock or un-cock for single action shots. The 638 has a shrouded hammer so it is less likely to catch the hammer in your pocket. It can still be cocked, but the hammer is not nearly as exposed. I have the 638 version myself. It is light enough to carry in a jacket pocket or purse 24/7/365.
I shoot mine quite a bit, and use lead bullets with the minimum dose of Clays recommended for the bullet weight to keep down wear and tear on the gun.
If I were to go with a small concealable semiautomatic I would probably look at a Kahr 9mm. I have a rocket scientist buddy who analizes everything to death before purchasing. He and his wife both have airweight 38 J Frames, and he also carries the Kahr 9mm. I trust his analisis of things completely. If he told me the sun was not comming up tomorrow, I would purchase more batteries and coleman fuel. When he comes to a conclusion, I have never heard of him being wrong about anything. He is not a real rocket scientist, he is into bottled water, and holds I believe over a dozen patents dealing with that. If he decided on a Kahr 9mm, that is good enough for me.
If one gun is all you plan to buy, I would be looking at the Police Trade in 4" 38 or 357 revolvers I mentioned first. Have someone revolver friendly look it over and make sure it locks up and functions properly. Most are a little beat up from holster wear, and having the butts beating into things, but most are mechanicly in great shape, and will last a life time. Adding a new set of grips can help the guns looks a lot most of the time.
Well that is my 2 cents worth.
Bob
From what I gather you probably do not own a handgun of any description. You also said you were looking for a house gun, so probably the wife will need to be able to shoot it.
Then we have concealable.
I would look at a police trade in revolver. I just bought a S&W model 64 in pretty good shape for $335 total cost. That is a Medium Frame 4" Heavy Barrel 38 Special. It is accurate, pleasant to shoot, and not excessively heavy for belt carry. A very good all around handgun, and reasonable affordable.
I always like to start women or any new handgun shooter for that matter, out on a K frame size 4" revolver. I would normally start someone on my 617 which is a 4" K Frame size 22 LR, with no recoil first. Then move on up to the 38 Special. The K Frame 4" is simple, reliable, and accurate.
A problem non-shooter women have with semiautomatics is limp wristing them. This will bring on a jam. Someone who is not gun friendly does not need a stopage at a serious moment. They will not get it cleared and shooting again untill after things are over. A K Frame S&W will shoot 6 times with almost complete confidence.
If your budget was not tight I would recommend a S&W 617 with a 6 shot cylinder in a 4" barrel version as ideal for your first handgun purchase. A second more affordable option would be a Taurus. As was mentioned above a 550 round brick of Federal 22 shells is $18.50 at Wal-Mart. You can afford to shoot it enough to get good with it. While not a perfect home defense gun, hitting your target with a 22 is better than missing with something bigger.
I personally like all my K, L, and N Frame revolvers to go bang 6 times. You can get 10 shot models, and that might be a better choice when this is your Only/First handgun purchase, for more fire power.
For the second gun I would then go with a K Frame S&W in a Model 10, 13, 15, 64, 65, 66, or 67. All the listed guns are 38 Special or 357 Magnum, which will shoot 38 Special. I would get a 4" model. All the above listed guns have the same grip and size as the 617 in 22 LR. They feel exactly the same. They will all fit in the same holster. So you can get a good holster for the 22 and it will work with your 38.
The L Frame 581, 586, 681, and 686 will also work, but may not fit your holster depending on what you get.
Now that we have some experiance, and are handgun friendly I would pick up a J Frame S&W Airweight again in a 38 Special. My choice would be either a 637 or a 638. The 637 has an exposed hammer and is easy to cock or un-cock for single action shots. The 638 has a shrouded hammer so it is less likely to catch the hammer in your pocket. It can still be cocked, but the hammer is not nearly as exposed. I have the 638 version myself. It is light enough to carry in a jacket pocket or purse 24/7/365.
I shoot mine quite a bit, and use lead bullets with the minimum dose of Clays recommended for the bullet weight to keep down wear and tear on the gun.
If I were to go with a small concealable semiautomatic I would probably look at a Kahr 9mm. I have a rocket scientist buddy who analizes everything to death before purchasing. He and his wife both have airweight 38 J Frames, and he also carries the Kahr 9mm. I trust his analisis of things completely. If he told me the sun was not comming up tomorrow, I would purchase more batteries and coleman fuel. When he comes to a conclusion, I have never heard of him being wrong about anything. He is not a real rocket scientist, he is into bottled water, and holds I believe over a dozen patents dealing with that. If he decided on a Kahr 9mm, that is good enough for me.
If one gun is all you plan to buy, I would be looking at the Police Trade in 4" 38 or 357 revolvers I mentioned first. Have someone revolver friendly look it over and make sure it locks up and functions properly. Most are a little beat up from holster wear, and having the butts beating into things, but most are mechanicly in great shape, and will last a life time. Adding a new set of grips can help the guns looks a lot most of the time.
Well that is my 2 cents worth.
Bob
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Concealability
I just purchased a KelTec PF9, it is a dream to carry, not as powerful and my 45 or 40 but very concealable, practically disapears in an in the waist band holster.
On the other hand its taking some time to get used to the double action trigger after years of single action shooting. I'm doing dime on the blade dry fire exercises but haven't yet been back to the range to test my new skills.
I believe the Kel Ttec PF9 would be a very good choice, especially at the price point of under $300.
For a house gun especially if you have little or now experience, try a double barrelled shot gun or a Judge. Basically point and shoot and big enough the scare the S___ out of most intruders.
I just purchased a KelTec PF9, it is a dream to carry, not as powerful and my 45 or 40 but very concealable, practically disapears in an in the waist band holster.
On the other hand its taking some time to get used to the double action trigger after years of single action shooting. I'm doing dime on the blade dry fire exercises but haven't yet been back to the range to test my new skills.
I believe the Kel Ttec PF9 would be a very good choice, especially at the price point of under $300.
For a house gun especially if you have little or now experience, try a double barrelled shot gun or a Judge. Basically point and shoot and big enough the scare the S___ out of most intruders.
As has been mentioned, just about any reasonable gun is concealable. I carry a 1911, 3, 4, and full sized 5".
I would suggest an older S&W or Ruger 38/.357 revolver as among the most reliable and economically priced. You can shoot .38 special ammo in a .357 revolver. Excellent, reliable guns even if bought used. A 2" 5 shot revolver (S&W J-frame, Ruger SP-101) is very concealable. I often carry a 3" .357 in summer.
The only problem with 38/357 is that practice ammo is more expensive than 9mm.
9mm is also an excellent choice. The ammo is inexpensive compared to other calibers. I would not suggest going to something ultra small, they are harder to shoot (more recoil, which you are not used to.) A mid to large size 9mm is concealable and not too expensive.
Ken
I would suggest an older S&W or Ruger 38/.357 revolver as among the most reliable and economically priced. You can shoot .38 special ammo in a .357 revolver. Excellent, reliable guns even if bought used. A 2" 5 shot revolver (S&W J-frame, Ruger SP-101) is very concealable. I often carry a 3" .357 in summer.
The only problem with 38/357 is that practice ammo is more expensive than 9mm.
9mm is also an excellent choice. The ammo is inexpensive compared to other calibers. I would not suggest going to something ultra small, they are harder to shoot (more recoil, which you are not used to.) A mid to large size 9mm is concealable and not too expensive.
Ken
I'm assuming that the OP is saying he needs a small handgun that is both completely concealable and capable of HD duty. If deep concealibility is a must, then the choices are very limited if you need this handgun to also do double duty as a home defender.
I see a.380 ACP Kel-Tec P3AT or its Ruger clone in the OP's future.
Either is entirely concealable, but neither of these are really great choices for a HD gun, and you're going to have to keep the guns clean and the feeding ramps polished if you expect reliability.
If you just need a gun that is covered by clothing, not a gun that nobody knows you have, maybe a 3" or 4" 38 Special Revolver that's rated for +P ammo would be right for you. IMHO, that would be a much better choice for HD, but it wouldn't be suitable for really deep concealment.
I see a.380 ACP Kel-Tec P3AT or its Ruger clone in the OP's future.
Either is entirely concealable, but neither of these are really great choices for a HD gun, and you're going to have to keep the guns clean and the feeding ramps polished if you expect reliability.
If you just need a gun that is covered by clothing, not a gun that nobody knows you have, maybe a 3" or 4" 38 Special Revolver that's rated for +P ammo would be right for you. IMHO, that would be a much better choice for HD, but it wouldn't be suitable for really deep concealment.
Looking for cheap
How can $300 be cheap? It is compared to the high dollar guns.
I began with cheap. Sigma took a little working on to get good. Taurus PT-111 needed a trip to the factory. Ruger LCP or LCR are in that range and good I expect. Buying used is risky but you can get a better gun that way.
I got the Sigma into good shape and a relative got it away from me. The factory took care of my Taurus and it's my carry.
I bought cheap and made it work.
How can $300 be cheap? It is compared to the high dollar guns.
I began with cheap. Sigma took a little working on to get good. Taurus PT-111 needed a trip to the factory. Ruger LCP or LCR are in that range and good I expect. Buying used is risky but you can get a better gun that way.
I got the Sigma into good shape and a relative got it away from me. The factory took care of my Taurus and it's my carry.
I bought cheap and made it work.