Concealed carry: Will my laziness get me killed?
- Thread starter Futo Inu
- Start date
Bullet placement is more important than bullet power.
Also, it is not a wise idea to have too many carry guns, one being the preference. If the carry gun varies, you may find yourself in the "If it's Tuesday, I must have the Glock" situation. Or find yourself dying while trying to squeeze a double action shot from a 1911 type, or thumb off the safety on a Sigma.
Jim
Also, it is not a wise idea to have too many carry guns, one being the preference. If the carry gun varies, you may find yourself in the "If it's Tuesday, I must have the Glock" situation. Or find yourself dying while trying to squeeze a double action shot from a 1911 type, or thumb off the safety on a Sigma.
Jim
Hardball is correct. The best gun for CCW is the gun you have ON YOU. I'm carrying my Wilson Protector as I write this. In the summer months, this is not usually an option. A Glock 27 in an ankle holster is as big a gun as I can comfortably carry as I don't wear a jacket. A .32 ACP pocket gun wouldn't be my first choice, but if it's between the .32 and NOTHING, it's an excellent choice!
Andrew Bornman
New member
When you need a gun you will need it bad. A week ago I faced an armed man attempting a murder. I was unarmed because I got lazy and took off my gun at home. I do not live in a high risk area and so felt safe. What a fool.
As I was confronting the situation I wasn't desiring my .380 Bersa, I wanted my 12ga. When you need a gun you want the most powerful option you have. The rest of the time you think that a little toy is plenty.
Now I think twice before putting on the .380 rather than my full capacity 9mm.
Yes I survived the confrontation unarmed but it was a miracle. The attacker ran at my approach rather than carving me up as the Christmas goose.
As I was confronting the situation I wasn't desiring my .380 Bersa, I wanted my 12ga. When you need a gun you want the most powerful option you have. The rest of the time you think that a little toy is plenty.
Now I think twice before putting on the .380 rather than my full capacity 9mm.
Yes I survived the confrontation unarmed but it was a miracle. The attacker ran at my approach rather than carving me up as the Christmas goose.
HeadHunter
New member
As part of doing some IDPA stage design, I databased every incident in "The Armed Citizen" for 1998-2000; over 300 incidents. Entries for type of gun carried by citizen, were shots fired, how many, results, etc. Granted there are methodological problems with this data sample, but it's not a perfect world.
Bottom line - have a gun, any gun, and be willing to use it. When shots were fired, the mean number of shots fired was 2, median 2, mode 1. Most common caliber used by citizens was .38/.357, second most popular was .22/.25. "Heavy caliber" handguns were pretty far down the list. The only cases I could find where a criminal who was shot with any caliber weapon continued to advance were psychotic domestic violence situations. Robbers, home invaders, rapists, etc. seemed to feel that being shot once or twice (usually once) was quite enough, thank you, and either fled or expired.
FWIW. I think the creativity of the human imagination is quite amazing, especially when questions of what is adequate weaponry come into play. As one poster to this discussion said, if you have to pull a pistol, the weapon you will be wishing for will not be some slightly larger pathetic popgun handgun, because any handgun is a mousegun. Most likely visions of a shotgun or belt fed GPMG will be dancing in your head, unless you left your hogleg at home, in which case you will be thinking "I wish I had a gun, any gun."
Bottom line - have a gun, any gun, and be willing to use it. When shots were fired, the mean number of shots fired was 2, median 2, mode 1. Most common caliber used by citizens was .38/.357, second most popular was .22/.25. "Heavy caliber" handguns were pretty far down the list. The only cases I could find where a criminal who was shot with any caliber weapon continued to advance were psychotic domestic violence situations. Robbers, home invaders, rapists, etc. seemed to feel that being shot once or twice (usually once) was quite enough, thank you, and either fled or expired.
FWIW. I think the creativity of the human imagination is quite amazing, especially when questions of what is adequate weaponry come into play. As one poster to this discussion said, if you have to pull a pistol, the weapon you will be wishing for will not be some slightly larger pathetic popgun handgun, because any handgun is a mousegun. Most likely visions of a shotgun or belt fed GPMG will be dancing in your head, unless you left your hogleg at home, in which case you will be thinking "I wish I had a gun, any gun."
If you actually carry a gun every day and have to keep it concealed vs hidden then you will tend to start using a mouse gun in your battery.
Just because a P 32 or snub nosed 38 in your pocket will be the gun you always have and probably the first one you reach for [because your used to having it] doesn't mean that you can't have other weapons at hand.
I know at least three people that tend to carry a P32 as primary. Not because they like the caliber but because it is the smallest they can truly conceal on a daily basis without co workers and clients being aware of it. One of those people usually has a Glock 40 in his car or in his coat in winter. Two of the others tend to carry at least a standard combat caliber gun off body or in their desk/car.
Another option to remember is that something like a P11, Kahr P9, or lt wt 38/357 snub, or even a mini Glock can be carried in an ankle holster to "back up" the 32 in your pocket.
Just because a P 32 or snub nosed 38 in your pocket will be the gun you always have and probably the first one you reach for [because your used to having it] doesn't mean that you can't have other weapons at hand.
I know at least three people that tend to carry a P32 as primary. Not because they like the caliber but because it is the smallest they can truly conceal on a daily basis without co workers and clients being aware of it. One of those people usually has a Glock 40 in his car or in his coat in winter. Two of the others tend to carry at least a standard combat caliber gun off body or in their desk/car.
Another option to remember is that something like a P11, Kahr P9, or lt wt 38/357 snub, or even a mini Glock can be carried in an ankle holster to "back up" the 32 in your pocket.
>>If you actually carry a gun every day and have to keep it concealed vs hidden then you will tend to start using a mouse gun in your battery.<<
I actually carry a gun every day and have to keep it concealed and that gun is a full size 1911. On the rare occasions when I just CAN'T dress to carry it (ie the gym and the beach) I carry a Para Ordnance P12 in a fanny pack. Mouseguns are NOT necessary. If you have to dress in a tucked in dress shirt with no coat for work, you can at least carry a mini-Glock in Thunderwear, a Kramer Confidante, a belly band or a Workman-style tuckable holster.
I actually carry a gun every day and have to keep it concealed and that gun is a full size 1911. On the rare occasions when I just CAN'T dress to carry it (ie the gym and the beach) I carry a Para Ordnance P12 in a fanny pack. Mouseguns are NOT necessary. If you have to dress in a tucked in dress shirt with no coat for work, you can at least carry a mini-Glock in Thunderwear, a Kramer Confidante, a belly band or a Workman-style tuckable holster.
HeadHunter
New member
It's a lot easier to keep things concealed from the general public with whom one has minimal casual contact on a one time basis than it is from clients or co-workers. A distinction that is often overlooked.
HeadHunter, you just said a mouthful. I have no doubt that in casual contact that I could conceal almost any of my carry choices. However, I work in close contact with my clients in business attire, and it's much harder when you're around someone for months. Since I rarely wear a coat in the office, and many of my clients would take a very dim view of my gun, I choose a carry option that is the most unlikely to be "made". Of course, while it would be real nice to have my AR handy if something ever happens, here in the real world, the odds of that are pretty low. Perhaps if I traveled in more dangerous circles, I'd be more concerned. In my car, the 9mm in the safe under the seat adds to the comfort level on the road.
Knox,
Your post:
Congratulations Mr. Bowman. I hope I would have the courage to do the same. Your point is well taken. Elaborate on the details if you will.
Bornman posted a story on this in the general discussion forum:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50361
Your post:
Congratulations Mr. Bowman. I hope I would have the courage to do the same. Your point is well taken. Elaborate on the details if you will.
Bornman posted a story on this in the general discussion forum:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50361
This not original to me but from another listt.
Here's the deal.
Most of the time you don't need a gun.
So if you didn't carry you would still do OK.
But if your carry gun is too big, you won't carry it.
That's why so many folks carry J frames. I have a 442
which sees more use that most guns.
So if you only have a big gun, you have two choices -
carry or don't - DON'T usually wins.
However, if you have a small gun you will carry it.
What about stopping power - Most defensive gun uses never fire a shot and are deterrent 95% of the time.
So you get the max benefit of the gun independent of caliber.
Only in 5% do you have to shoot.
So your choice is whether you are no deterrence because
of caliber mania or you will be successful 95% of the time.
Here's the deal.
Most of the time you don't need a gun.
So if you didn't carry you would still do OK.
But if your carry gun is too big, you won't carry it.
That's why so many folks carry J frames. I have a 442
which sees more use that most guns.
So if you only have a big gun, you have two choices -
carry or don't - DON'T usually wins.
However, if you have a small gun you will carry it.
What about stopping power - Most defensive gun uses never fire a shot and are deterrent 95% of the time.
So you get the max benefit of the gun independent of caliber.
Only in 5% do you have to shoot.
So your choice is whether you are no deterrence because
of caliber mania or you will be successful 95% of the time.
I don't think it will get you killed..but I take a Glock 33 everywhere I go..Why is it that no one on any of these threads lives in a so-called "high-risk" area? Oh yeah and the "high-risk" area is a MYTH ! Some people however still believe that it "it can't happen here" (ever noticed how shocked and amazed they look on t.v after a violent crime in their area) exist, these people are arrogant elitist!
Topgun77th
New member
Just to reiterate what has already been said: The weapon in your hand beats the rocket launcher at home. Be proficiant with what you carry most of the time. Stick to the rule of " Beware of the man with one gun " Being familiar with a variety of guns is fine but mastering one gun you carry is better, alot better. I know such statements are not welcome but like all rules this too has its exceptions. Some people can shoot anything well. Learn to manipulate your primary carry weapon with one hand, both primary and weak hand, two hand, sitting, drawing while sitting, standing, with something else in your hand, you get the idea, I sure. Watch yourself as you got through the day in the different positions that you may find yourself and think, can I draw and fire accurately from this position, with the clothes I'm wearing, whats my background, where is my cover, where is my escape? These mental mind games will help you when if the rubber ever does hit the road, Also, this self evaluation may help you ecied what extra, formal training that you need.
Think Safe / Stay Safer
C
Think Safe / Stay Safer
C
WISE UP ROOKIES!
Haven’t you guys done your homework? All of you go right out and rent/buy ALL Sean Connery 007 films. He was issued a .32 “With a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window.” Did you see how effective it worked? What more could you ask for! Once in FRW/L he took out a guy at what had to be 100 yds one handed no less! (pop- "Ieeeeeee! thud) What stopping power! OSS was the mean/median/mode/norm/average/1st standard deviation. What more proof do you foolish skeptics need?
On a slightly more serious note, doesn’t the modern HP .32 have the effectiveness of .45 ball ammo that spawned the phrase “They all fall to hardball?” & that some prestigious training facilities still recommend?
The great & all powerfull 10mmman has spoken. (at this moment in my front pocket just to the right of the bottom of my godawful cravat sits a P-32, all my 10mms are in the safe at home, same as my M38, Mustang PL, P9 & P5C)
[Edited by 10mmman on 01-18-2001 at 06:03 PM]
Haven’t you guys done your homework? All of you go right out and rent/buy ALL Sean Connery 007 films. He was issued a .32 “With a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window.” Did you see how effective it worked? What more could you ask for! Once in FRW/L he took out a guy at what had to be 100 yds one handed no less! (pop- "Ieeeeeee! thud) What stopping power! OSS was the mean/median/mode/norm/average/1st standard deviation. What more proof do you foolish skeptics need?
On a slightly more serious note, doesn’t the modern HP .32 have the effectiveness of .45 ball ammo that spawned the phrase “They all fall to hardball?” & that some prestigious training facilities still recommend?
The great & all powerfull 10mmman has spoken. (at this moment in my front pocket just to the right of the bottom of my godawful cravat sits a P-32, all my 10mms are in the safe at home, same as my M38, Mustang PL, P9 & P5C)
[Edited by 10mmman on 01-18-2001 at 06:03 PM]
My carry choice is incremental. My NAA Guardian (.32) is always in my right front pocket. In my left boot is a Taurus Ti .357. On my hip rides a Kimber CDP. Sometimes its just the Kimber; other times it's just the Guardian; sometimes it's just the Taurus. However, when my dress permits it, I will carry up to three.
My carry philosophy revolves around "stay alive." The Kimber will work, and work well. If I don't have it, or it was taken from me, the Guardian will stop an immediate personal threat and provide cover while retreating to a safe position. At that time I can draw my Taurus and deliver effective fire to neutralize any threats. I think of my Kimber as my Primary, the Taurus as my back-up, and the Guardian as my OS gun.
My carry philosophy revolves around "stay alive." The Kimber will work, and work well. If I don't have it, or it was taken from me, the Guardian will stop an immediate personal threat and provide cover while retreating to a safe position. At that time I can draw my Taurus and deliver effective fire to neutralize any threats. I think of my Kimber as my Primary, the Taurus as my back-up, and the Guardian as my OS gun.