This is absolutely true. An instructor I've done a few courses with now, Todd Rassa, will tell you that, "Johnny was a good boy", to at least someone out there. Even if you get clear of the criminal charges a civil suit is highly likely. I guess in my summary above part of my point is that in this case there are even more concerns on top of those already significant concerns. If at the end of the day the OP takes all of that into account and decides to carry then that's his call. No one can really make that decision other than him.
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Concealed carry dilemma
- Thread starter Dr. Steven Brule
- Start date
This is absolutely true. An instructor I've done a few courses with now, Todd Rassa, will tell you that, "Johnny was a good boy", to at least someone out there. Even if you get clear of the criminal charges a civil suit is highly likely. I guess in my summary above part of my point is that in this case there are even more concerns on top of those already significant concerns. If at the end of the day the OP takes all of that into account and decides to carry then that's his call. No one can really make that decision other than him.
lee n. field
New member
In short, work prohibits me from carrying. I like to carry a service sized handgun, like a Glock 19, but I can't be caught printing at work. I had a Glock 43, and hated it; My hands are too large to get a decent trigger press without contacting my support hand in the process.
I've recently entertained the idea of a Shield, as it seems to fit my large hands better, but it would still be a waistband gun. I have to keep my shirt tucked in at work and would prefer not to carry IWB. If I could find a good AIWB holster that allowed for a tucked shirt without worrying if I extend my arms or reach for something it will print I would not be opposed to the shield.
I've also been thinking about a pocket gun, the original double action LCP seems to be a solid choice. However, it's not exactly a fighting handgun like the Shield. I'm a pretty big guy, 6'1 200 pounds. The reason I like to carry a fighting handgun is because I have a dangerous line of work. Chances are, I will have to reach out to 7 yards or farther in a gunfight.
Are there any options out there that I've not yet considered, or should I just throw a single stack .380 in my pocket and at least be armed rather than not? I could get a nice cargo pocket holster and carry a larger pistol like the shield, but that would require that I wear cargo shorts or pants every day. As well, I'm not entirely confident that I could effectively draw from a velcro sealed cargo pocket in a life or death situation.
Snubby revolver. Buy pants with big enough pockets to accommodate it.
reynolds357
New member
Find a new job before you cost your employer a huge contract and they sue you personally. You might even run into some serious legal ramifications if you use deadly force due to the fact the entity that gave you the right to be where you were established rules you broke.
The first rule learned in CCW training is to avoid situations that would require you to carry a weapon in the first place. I once worked in South Jersey in an area that could politely be described a a place you didn't want to hang around after sunset. And New Jersey doesn't issue carry permits unless your occupation requires it, and then they will probably still deny your application. I don't work in Jersey anymore & I'm glad for that.
Like TunnelRat, I've been watching this thread for a little while and thinking about it...
Like him, this part is a deciding factor for me:
If you hadn't said that, and you have a CCW permit, I'd have said to ignore the policy. Repo work is dangerous. There is no way I'd do it without both a ballistic vest and a gun (preferably open carried, but if against the rules, concealed). Heck, even living in MD where a CCW permit is nearly impossible, I wouldn't do repo work without a gun.
However, if what you said isn't an exaggeration, and getting caught carrying could lose your company contracts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, ethically speaking there is no choice.
You do not have the ethical right to make a decision for someone else that could potentially cost them their business (unless it is a multi-million dollar company, and possibly even if it is, that is what we are talking about if they lose that big a contract) and who knows how many other people their jobs. I'd sooner counsel someone to carry in a non-carry state than counsel you to do so. In that case, they are making a cost-benefit decision for themselves and if they decide the risk of not carrying is greater than the legal risk, that is their decision to make (their skin is at risk, no one else's). In your case, again, you are making a pretty high-stakes decision for someone else.
If you feel the risk of not carrying is too great, you have an option, you can leave the job and look for another. I'd rather be alive and unemployed (and looking) than dead and working (until then anyway). If you are really worried and can't leave until you have something else lined up, get a ballistic vest.
Like him, this part is a deciding factor for me:
The no weapon policy is contract mandated by big banks. If a customer or employee catches me, not only am I terminated, but we will lose a hundred thousand dollar a year contract as well.
If you hadn't said that, and you have a CCW permit, I'd have said to ignore the policy. Repo work is dangerous. There is no way I'd do it without both a ballistic vest and a gun (preferably open carried, but if against the rules, concealed). Heck, even living in MD where a CCW permit is nearly impossible, I wouldn't do repo work without a gun.
However, if what you said isn't an exaggeration, and getting caught carrying could lose your company contracts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, ethically speaking there is no choice.
You do not have the ethical right to make a decision for someone else that could potentially cost them their business (unless it is a multi-million dollar company, and possibly even if it is, that is what we are talking about if they lose that big a contract) and who knows how many other people their jobs. I'd sooner counsel someone to carry in a non-carry state than counsel you to do so. In that case, they are making a cost-benefit decision for themselves and if they decide the risk of not carrying is greater than the legal risk, that is their decision to make (their skin is at risk, no one else's). In your case, again, you are making a pretty high-stakes decision for someone else.
If you feel the risk of not carrying is too great, you have an option, you can leave the job and look for another. I'd rather be alive and unemployed (and looking) than dead and working (until then anyway). If you are really worried and can't leave until you have something else lined up, get a ballistic vest.
Am I the only one who doesn't see a $100k contract as that large? His pay alone probably eats up the majority of that once you add in benefits and social security taxes. Losing that one account probably won't mean the end of the business.
Although he has no moral obligation to keep that company in business regardless. If he needs to pull a gun to STAY ALIVE, then both he and the business win anyway. Business owners don't really want word getting around that the previous employee died on the job.
Although he has no moral obligation to keep that company in business regardless. If he needs to pull a gun to STAY ALIVE, then both he and the business win anyway. Business owners don't really want word getting around that the previous employee died on the job.
Am I the only one who doesn't see a $100k contract as that large? His pay alone probably eats up the majority of that once you add in benefits and social security taxes. Losing that one account probably won't mean the end of the business.
Although he has no moral obligation to keep that company in business regardless. If he needs to pull a gun to STAY ALIVE, then both he and the business win anyway. Business owners don't really want word getting around that the previous employee died on the job
I doubt that only one contract specifies that the drivers be unarmed, and I doubt that a contract with the bank is only $100K for that work (more likely, hundreds of thousands of dollars, multiple hundreds, are at stake). Still, the margins most small businesses run on are pretty tight. Quite a few would go under with the immediate and unexpected loss of $100K (or less) per year.
As for his moral obligations, we definitely differ here. I don't think any of us have the right to knowingly make a decision that will put someone else's livelihood on the line (and not just the business owner). He had the choice to take the job knowing they require he be unarmed (assuming he knew the rule). Whether he knew the rule up front or not, he has the choice to stay or leave knowing they require him to be unarmed and knowing the reason why. We aren't talking a random "no guns while working for me" policy, they will be in violation of and lose contracts. If he feels it is too dangerous, he can get a ballistic vest (which will do him more good if actively being fired upon is a real and likely danger anyway) or he can leave for a safer job.
TheGunGeek
New member
1. I would look at light ballistic vest to wear under the polo shirt. In my opinion this would be the best immediate decision/investment.
2. Depending on the laws in your State, your employer may not be able to prohibit you from having a gun your vehicle. In FL, you have the same rights as your home (with very limited exceptions). Check your State law.
3. I would consider another employer or carrier path if the current risk vs reward isn't worth it for you.
4. If you do make the decision to carry anyway, pocket carry will be the most concealable, with a holster like a DeSantis Super Fly to hide the outline. The choice of firearm can be anything from a Ruger LCR to a pocket .380. It would be a good idea to rent some different models, and find which you are most accurate with. It should also be something you would be willing to include in your range time on a periodic basis.
2. Depending on the laws in your State, your employer may not be able to prohibit you from having a gun your vehicle. In FL, you have the same rights as your home (with very limited exceptions). Check your State law.
3. I would consider another employer or carrier path if the current risk vs reward isn't worth it for you.
4. If you do make the decision to carry anyway, pocket carry will be the most concealable, with a holster like a DeSantis Super Fly to hide the outline. The choice of firearm can be anything from a Ruger LCR to a pocket .380. It would be a good idea to rent some different models, and find which you are most accurate with. It should also be something you would be willing to include in your range time on a periodic basis.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Dr. Brule hasn't been back here since 7:37 p.m. on July 28. Either he got the answer he needed, or he didn't get the answer he wanted.