Colt 1917

[cjwils]

Most 1917s, except a few early Colts, can be shot with no moon clips. You just pull the empties out with your fingernails or push them out with a small rod. Without moon clips, your cartridges are head spacing on the case mouth. Those few early Colt 1917s had the cylinder bored straight through, so you cannot head space on the case mouth.

 

[CLC]

Thanks for the help guys, I'm thinking I'll try no moon clip for now. The colt is a little big in my hands but it's fun to shoot. I have one moon clip and didn't want to destroy it so I didn't shoot much. The J frame on the smith and wesson victory model fits my hand better and has a easier trigger pull for me.

 

[sandbag]

The RIMZ moonclips are a snap to use ,but for SD,steel clips are more reliable.
The trigger on mine is really heavy,but there are only a few gunsmiths in the USA
who can work on old style DA Colt lockwork.

 

[peggysue]

Actually when the 1917 was used by the military they used half moon clips which are easy to load and unload. mine can shoot 45 Colt too. They are a big robust gun. Mine has history. My dad got it in 1962 from the Rock Island Arsenal through a NRA program for $16.00. A little worn now as it was like NIB until myself as a kid carried and shot the crap out of it. (We could do that is small towns back them.)
You can see it in this picture by the Hams bear.

 

[Mike Irwin]

You are in desperate need of a gun safe.



"mine can shoot 45 Colt too."

How do you do that without having a serious headspace issue?

 

[mcb66]

"mine can shoot 45 Colt too."
Also interested, none of mine could do this. Had to have been machined. Would like to know how.

 

[spacecoast]

How do you do that without having a serious headspace issue?

I believe the earlier wartime versions were bored straight through and didn't have the headspacing issue.

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/98589-looking-colt-1917-date-manufacture.html#post783018

The early Model 1917 Colts did not have the cylinders cut so that the .45 ACP round would headspace correctly, and since the round would drop past where the firing pin could hit them had to be fired with the half moon clips. It wasn't until the No. 30000 range that Colt cut their cylinders to headspace correctly without the clips. The ammo for the 1917 Revolver was shipped in the half moon clips, but in an emergency the single rounds could be dropped into the chambers.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I believe the earlier wartime versions were bored straight through and didn't have the headspacing issue."

You'd still have a head space issue. A BIG one, because a revolver's head space is measured from the rear face of the cylinder to the recoil shield. (The measurement is a little different for revolvers with recessed chambers, like S&W's magnums, but the same essential truth applies.)

Which means that in order to have the proper head space dimensions, the rim thicknesses have to be very close to identical.

The .45 Auto Rim, which as the proper head space dimensions for the 1917 chambered for .45 ACP, has a rim thickness of 0.0827.

The .45 Long Colt has a rim thickness of 0.060.

That's enough that it creates a head space issue and very likely will create ignition issues.


In a revolver with shouldered chambers, the shoulder serves only to maintain head space for a properly dimensioned case.

 

[spacecoast]

As usual, I bow to the master.

 

[jnichols2]

Just got mine last night. It was re-blued, but the price was $535.
I'm not a collector, and didn't want to pay the other prices I saw.
So, I got this one, and am happy with it.

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It didn't come with any moon clips, waiting for them from Amazon.

For the re-bluing purists: I have a 1947 (My birth year) 1911A1 with original finish. I wouldn't have bought this revolver at that price. It still carries it's history, and I still enjoy it. I'm OK that it will never really appreciate.

Like CLC, mine has a higher SN, 152xxx. I estimate it was made January 1919.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

When I found this S&W Model 1917 a few years ago in a local gunshop it came with an original box of 45 ACP ammo.

The date stamp on this box of ammo is Nov 7, 1918. The revolver itself shipped in January of 1918. The box of ammo is almost full. There are 7 half moon clips in the box, there were originally 8.

Regarding the Colt Model 1917, yes it is built on the same frame as the earlier Colt New Service model and it is a big gun, bigger than the S&W version. I don't own a Colt Model 1917, but I do own a couple of New Service revolvers. This photo shows how much bigger the frame of the Colt New Service is than the frame if the S&W Model 1917. It is the biggest revolver I own. This one is chambered for 45 Colt. The Colt Model 1917 is built on the same size frame, although by 1917 the configuration of the trigger guard was slightly different.

Regarding recoil, with a big gun like the Colt 1917 you will hardly notice the recoil. I concur with SaxonPig that the gun is so big it can be difficult to shoot.

 

[themalicious0ne]

I love my S&W 1917. My grandpa gave it to me. It's an excellent shooter and quite accurate. I also have massive hands so that helps.

Marked US Property with S/N 50xxx.



I wish it still had the original grips though.

 

[rodfac]

MIke

I prefer the polymer RIMZ clips from Beckham Industries.

I use them in my S&W Model of 1917, and they are fantastic.

Have you tried them in a 1955 S&W Target Model? Rod

 

[rodfac]

You guys are killin' me...this is another of my 'Grail' guns....Rod

 

[James K]

Hi, jnichols2,

My old eyes are not what they once were, but that Colt doesn't look like it has enough headspace for .45 ACP and moon clips. Sure it is not a standard New Service for .45 Colt or .455?

Jim

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I'm having a hard time envisioning how that tool works? I didn't want to destroy my only moon clip so I didn't get to shoot much.

If you reload, or are willing to reload, or care to scrounge around, there is a cartridge called the .45 Autorim. It's a .45 ACP caliber rimmed cartridge with an extra thick rim to emulate the thickness of a .45 ACP round in a moon clip. It allows using those Model of 1917 revolvers without the clips.

I'm pretty certain Starline sells the brass. I don't know if anyone sells factory-loaded .45 Autorim ammo.

 

[jnichols2]

Hi, jnichols2,

My old eyes are not what they once were, but that Colt doesn't look like it has enough headspace for .45 ACP and moon clips. Sure it is not a standard New Service for .45 Colt or .455?

Jim

Jim,

I'm certain it's a Model 1917. It has the "United States Property" and "US Army Model 1917", along with a US Army Serial Number on the Butt.

I'm very new to revolvers, and Google was no help on how to check headspace.

But I tried an empty shell case, several aluminum snap caps, and a live round. All slipped in smoothly, and a light showed through the spacing. The rims stayed above the cylnder surface.

Didn't try with moon clips, I have some on order.

It locked up with the empty case and snap caps, but didn't try the live round.

I don't know if those are good checks, but there does seem to be enough space ???

UPDATE
=====
I finally found the instructions for a Smith & Wesson.
The S&W spec was .006" to .012", I don't have feeler guages, so I mic'd a business card at .019".

Three of them ( .057) fit using a live round).
I don't have specs for the Colt 1917 one I ordered, but a S&W moon clip said it was .040".

I do have enough room, it may even be a little sloppy at .017". But probably not enough to cause light strikes.

I'll know for sure when I get the moon clips and pick up a set of feeler guages.

 

[James K]

OK, just my old eyes. FWIW, a lot of Model 1917 revolvers (the Army used the same designation for both makes of revolver) had the cylinders swapped out to fire standard .45 Colt. The cylinder stop (the one in the frame that keeps the cylinder from sliding backward, not the one that keeps the cylinder from rotating) has to be altered also, something that makes interchangeable cylinders impossible. (Before someone asks, the .45 ACP cylinder for the Ruger single action "convertible" has no space or room for a "moon clip" since extraction is by a rod from the front, like most revolvers of the SAA type.)

Jim

 

[Model12Win]

Excellent guns. Tremendous manstopping power. Rapid reload with mooners. Excellent pony gun from a more civilized age.

 

[RKG]

Hint: when firing a Colt 1917 two handed, pay attention to where your left thumb is. The cylinder protrudes beyond the shield just enough to catch your thumb nail when the revolver recoils. Hurts the first time, and, I hate to admit, hurts worse the second time!