Cocked & Locked...
- Thread starter Exit_Wound
- Start date
Is there a gun out there, that has a safety, (that is not a decocker) that CANNOT be carried "cocked and locked?
I can't think of any!
The "problem" with the 1911A1 etc, is not that cocked and locked is unsafe, but that that people see a cocked hammer and assume its unsafe.
Guns without visible hammers can be in EXACTLY the same mechanical condition, and evoke no worries from people who happen to see them. The majority of rifles and shoguns can be cocked and locked and no one seems to bat an eye at that.
I can't think of any!
The "problem" with the 1911A1 etc, is not that cocked and locked is unsafe, but that that people see a cocked hammer and assume its unsafe.
Guns without visible hammers can be in EXACTLY the same mechanical condition, and evoke no worries from people who happen to see them. The majority of rifles and shoguns can be cocked and locked and no one seems to bat an eye at that.
Tucker 1371
New member
I've never understood the fear of a cocked hammer. But I get that all the time. I'll be at my LGS, one of the employees I'm good friends with, and I'll show him what I happen to be carrying that day. If it's my Colt 1911 (series 80) one of the other patrons inevitably will make the incredulous comment "You carry it with the hammer back like that??" And then I explain to them why yes I do and how it is in fact designed to be carried so and is perfectly safe in a good holster. As safe or safer than a Glock. Striker fired pistols are essentially "cocked and locked" by default, are they not?
Not bashing Glocks, I own one and one day will probably have another. I just doubt it is any more safe than my 1911 carried C&L
Not bashing Glocks, I own one and one day will probably have another. I just doubt it is any more safe than my 1911 carried C&L
jrobin3360
New member
Can you say GLOCK???
Can you say RUGER LC9s???
Can you say TAURUS MILLINIUM???
campingnights
New member
I think carrying "cocked and locked" might show an innate desire to shoot yourself in the leg sometime. Mechanical devices malfunction all the time. If I were in a war zone I probably would think differently though. When I carry my Beretta Compact the chamber is empty. Doesn't really take that long to rack the slide if needed.
Independent George
New member
campingnights said:
I have the opposite worry - I'm less concerned about the safety failing than I am of me failing. No matter how much I train, I really can't be certain that under stress, I'm going to remember to take the safety off.
Cyanide971
New member
Grand Power P1 Mk7 (and newer Mk12's) can be carried like the majority of CZ's; "Cocked & Locked" or, hammer down, safety off with a DA first shot.
It makes less sense today, but in say 1900, it was totally understandable. Back then, the overwhelming majority of guns had hammers and did not have safeties. Guns that did were rare.
That "knowledge" (that a cock hammer means the gun is ready to go off) has hung on and passed through the generations, and many still think it applies to all guns, all the time, so they get nervous when they see a cocked hammer.
Ok, and your point is? Perhaps I could have phrased it a little better.
Is there any design of handgun, that has a visible hammer, and a manual safety, and that safety does not have a decocking function, that cannot be carried with the gun cocked and the safety ON?
yes I said that, note that I did not say ALL guns, or that they must be in the same condition. Different designs do things differently.
And yes, I can say GLock, Ruger LC9, and Taurus Millenium.
I just don't like the taste of them in my mouth!
I can also say striker fired, partially cocked, DASADAO safe action and a lot of other things, but none of them is what I am talking about here, either.
Do you ever worry that you will forget to step on the brake when driving?
This is not meant as a smartass question. My own personal experience has taught me, pretty convincingly that when you don't have the luxury of taking time to think, you WILL DO what you trained (practiced) to do, right, or wrong.
or, you will simply freeze, and do nothing at all. Well over 90% of people react in one of these two ways. I'm one of them, and have had the life experience to prove it, even to a stubborn cuss like me.
I'm not saying its not a valid concern, for you. I don't think it should be, but I'm not you. The key to success is consistency. No matter which system of operation (manual of arms) you choose, stick with ONLY that one, until/unless you replace it completely with a different one, and training on it.
DO NOT mix them, or you will have trouble if trouble finds you! Carry a gun with a safety that is down for off, for years, then tomorrow, switch to one that is down for ON. What do you think you are going to do under stress? What you spent years practicing, is what, most likely.
OR carry one with no safety, and find your thumb constantly sweeping "off" what isn't there?
Drive a standard? Ever step on the clutch when driving an automatic? I have. And if the "clutch" pedal is really a power brake, it makes quite the impression!
Well Glocks are not cocked and locked. They are in a sense half cocked. It takes pulling the trigger to fully cock a Glock at which point you are firing the gun and there is no "lock", there is no external safety apart from the trigger.
The Ruger LC9 is a dao gun if I remember correctly and while it has a hammer, again no C&L.
I'm unfamiliar with the Millunium.
It's probably already been mentioned and I missed it but the Colt Pocket Hammerless models can be carried cocked and locked.
tipoc
Nakanokalronin
New member
Other colts like the 1903 and Mustang, some older Berettas and 92s with a frame mounted thumb safety,etc.
BigMikey76
New member
If you train to do it, anything can be done quickly. My problem with carrying un-chambered is that the most likely time for a failure is during cycling. If the round fails to feed, slide does not go fully into battery, etc., you are screwed. If you carry with a round in the chamber, you will at least have that one shot before any cycling issues are possible. Is it likely that you will have cycling issues? Probably not, as long as the gun has proven itself to be reliable, but why take the chance?
To address the OP, most of Taurus' current lines of hammer fired and striker fired pistols are capable of cocked and locked carry. In fact, some are not capable of anything else. The hammer fired options are the PT92 (Beretta clone) and the PT800 series (809, 840 and 845). Both have a manual safety that also functions as a decocker, so they can be carried C&L or in double action. As for the striker fired options, the 24/7 G2, the Millennium G2, and the 709 "Slim" are all SA/DA. For these three, there is no decocker, only a safety, so the only carry option is C&L. The only time it goes into double action mode is if the trigger is pulled and the slide does not cycle, such as a light strike/hard primer, or when dry firing. Otherwise, it is always in single action.
The CZ P-07 and P-09 can also be carried C&L, if you prefer them that way. It is just a matter of switching out the decocker for a safety, which is included with the gun when you purchase it.
Cocked & Locked: I here people cannot be expected to respond correct under stress, but there are always skid marks at a crash!
Glock/Ruger design is half cocked and not locked.
XD: that is pretty much cocked and locked. The striker is locked and the seat is locked. When the thumb safety is up, the trigger bar is locked too. It's really one of the safest guns out there. Similar, but better than a 1911.
AR: is cocked and locked. The safety stops the trigger which locks the sear to the hammer. Kind of wish it had a firing pin block, but I guess I can dream!!!
Glock/Ruger design is half cocked and not locked.
XD: that is pretty much cocked and locked. The striker is locked and the seat is locked. When the thumb safety is up, the trigger bar is locked too. It's really one of the safest guns out there. Similar, but better than a 1911.
AR: is cocked and locked. The safety stops the trigger which locks the sear to the hammer. Kind of wish it had a firing pin block, but I guess I can dream!!!
I've never liked carrying my CZ's C&L. I've always manually decocked them. I've found the CZ manual safety a little too easy to take off, and not quite as positive feeling as a 1911 safety. There's also no grip safety as backup if you inadvertently swiped the safety off while carrying.
When the trigger is fully relaxed, as carried in a holster, a glock is not cocked at all. The first pull is always longer. The subsequent pull can be shorter, half cocked, only if the shooter follows through and NOT fully relax the trigger after each shot.
-TL
Cosmodragoon
New member
While I prefer hammer-down DA/SA, there are some cool guns out there that let you do both. The safety lever on the FNX series goes one way to engage, holding the hammer in whatever condition it is in when you engage it, and goes the other way to decock.
