CMP 1911's

I'm just glad they will be priced high so that us COLLECTORS can absorb them for ourselves. God forbid they get into the hands of the riff raff who might want to actually go SHOOT them, that would be ruining history!! It's our duty as gun collectors to scavenge the land for all manners of interesting old guns to fill our climate controlled safes with, ensuring they never ever see the light of day or any range use lest their precious collector's value decline!!
 
I'm just glad they will be priced high so that us COLLECTORS can absorb them for ourselves. God forbid they get into the hands of the riff raff who might want to actually go SHOOT them, that would be ruining history!! It's our duty as gun collectors to scavenge the land for all manners of interesting old guns to fill our climate controlled safes with, ensuring they never ever see the light of day or any range use lest their precious collector's value decline!!
Click to expand...

Now that's the ol' CMP spirit we're talking about! ;)

Well said. :cool:
 
They are not shipping these guns directly to C&R holders. They must go to a Class 01 FFL dealer.

Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.
Click to expand...

Proof of marksmanship has already been answered. A Conceal carry permit or your C&R lic should satisfy the marksmanship part of the requirements.

Current or past military service.
Current or past law enforcement service
Participation in a rifle, pistol, air gun or shotgun competition (provide copy of results bulletin).
Completion of a marksmanship clinic that included live fire training (provide a copy of the certificate of completion or a statement from the instructor). Visit https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.p...ch&task=search to find an upcoming CMP sanctioned clinic or match.
Distinguished, Instructor, or Coach status.
Concealed Carry License.
Firearms Owner Identification Cards that included live fire training. - FFL or C&R license.
Completion of a Hunter Safety Course that included live fire training.
Certification from range or club official or law enforcement officer witnessing shooting activity. Complete the CMP Marksmanship Form to certify your range firing and the required marksmanship related activity for an individual to purchase from the CMP.
Click to expand...

The cheapest and easiest CMP club to join is Garand Collectors Association. http://thegca.org/product/gca-membership-2/

$25 and they submit your info directly to CMP.
 
44 AMP said:
Where are these guns coming from? Army?? Navy?? Marine? Air Force???

No doubt some will be finish worn, some might be mechanically worn, but all will be functional and meet service requirements.

I inspected the .45s of a couple of Army divisions in the mid 70s. Some were pretty worn looking, a few were almost new 1911s (not 1911A1s).

You might get something that went through Guadalcanal and Chosen, (and looks like it) or you might get something that lived in a Navy arms room since 1928, and only saw guard duty and some officers yearly qualification shooting (if that).

I would assume that if the gun you go to pick up isn't up to your standards, you could refuse the sale, and get your money back. If you want an actual GI gun, these are it. If you want something that meets today's standards, go buy something else.

And, no, I won't be buying one. I had one for many years, my desire for them has already been met, for many years.
Click to expand...
I completely stand by my original statement. The process has several obstacles and hurdles involved to get a chance to get a pistol. If you are not always setup for CMP purchasing you are going to pay $50 give or take to get your application there. There is no guarantee that you will be one of the 10,000 who make the lottery. Once you are in the lottery it is a complete crapshoot about what pistol you will be allowed to purchase sight unseen.

I agree that some of the guns could be in excellent condition but I believe these will be the minority. I think it is reasonable to believe that most will show significant wear but should be mechanically functional. So I guess my thoughts stay the same. I fully understand that others will view it differently and if you are already setup to buy from CMP the hassle is lessened so that might also play heavily.

I am like you my GI 1911 "need" has been satisfied by something already in the safe so that might taint my thoughts on the subject. Clearly YMMV
 
There is a program which supplies government surplus to local law enforcement.

A municipal department got a few 1911A1s, of which I have seen three. Two were fresh refurbs, the other was either a pristine Remington Rand or a fresh refurb with all RR parts. If the CMP sends out many like those, there will be a lot of happy campers, war stories of worn out guard and training guns notwithstanding. But will the CMP guns be so nice? We will just have to wait and see.

If you look on the 1911 board and see some of the junk being foisted off on entry level collectors, you would consider a worn out guard gun a step up. Sorry examples to outright fraud.
 
Jim Watson said:
There is a program which supplies government surplus to local law enforcement.

A municipal department got a few 1911A1s, of which I have seen three. Two were fresh refurbs, the other was either a pristine Remington Rand or a fresh refurb with all RR parts. If the CMP sends out many like those, there will be a lot of happy campers, war stories of worn out guard and training guns notwithstanding. But will the CMP guns be so nice? We will just have to wait and see.

If you look on the 1911 board and see some of the junk being foisted off on entry level collectors, you would consider a worn out guard gun a step up. Sorry examples to outright fraud.
Click to expand...
I agree with that 100%. I look at some of the guns that are sold to those who don't know any better and think it is criminal. I hate is when the gun community eats its own. My issue is that we will not know what we "might" get until you are somewhat committed.
 
If you look on the 1911 board and see some of the junk being foisted off on entry level collectors, you would consider a worn out guard gun a step up. Sorry examples to outright fraud.
Click to expand...

To compare some unscrupulous individuals on the internet to the CMP, is a sorry example to say the least. I, and many others, have dealt with the CMP in regards to their rifles, and I have every reason to believe that their standards and integrity will carry over to their sale of pistols as well.

Don
 
Which is just what I meant. Anything from CMP would be an improvement over what some of these poor suckers are getting stuck with.
 
Yes, the CMP is first rate. My main objection to the new requirements are the need to pay for a transfer through an FFL. The rifles were shipped to my front door.
 
New CMP 1911 News from last weeks email, now posted on the CMP Forums


http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=178899&page=65


#648
12-05-2017, 11:49 AM
Mark Johnson
CMP Chief Operating Officer

The CMP Board of Directors has discussed at length how the sales of 1911s would be handled, if the CMP were to ever receive them from the United States Army.

Some preliminary decisions further clarified:

1. Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt.
2. All laws pertaining to the sale of 1911s by CMP will be strictly obeyed.
3. Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5)a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.
4. A NICS background check will be performed by CMP on the customer to assure the customer is eligible to purchase prior to shipment to the FFL licensed dealer. The customer must receive a “proceed” from NICS prior to shipment of the pistol to the FFL licensed dealer.
5. The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person at the FFL dealers place of business, successfully passing a NICS check performed by the FFL holder, before the pistol can be transferred. This is a second NICS check performed on the customer.
6. Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year.
7. No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales.
8. CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world.
9. Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery.
10. Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders.
11. Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator.
12. The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP.
13. Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator.
14. When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one.
15. As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grade and pricing options will be available. Again, this done completely random.

Note: 1911 type pistols purchased from CMP cannot be transferred to 03 FFL (curio and relic) license. BATF and the United States Army prefer the second background check be performed by a “store front” FFL dealer. Each customer purchasing a 1911 type pistol from CMP will be subjected to two NICS background checks, one performed by CMP and the other performed by the FFL dealer the pistol is being shipped to.
__________________
Mark Johnson, CMP Chief Operating Officer
Click to expand...

And another from earlier today, 12-11-2017

#649
Today, 09:55 AM
Mark Johnson
CMP Chief Operating Officer

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 457

We will have an all new order form, a 1911 page on our web site, a dedicated fax number and email address for the FFL holder to send there FFL with customer name attached. The customer will have to send in a complete new order packet with all new qualifying criteria included. Everyone will be a new customer, everyone starts with no advantage or disadvantage. CMP 1911 is a separate entity from CMP and has to have its own record keeping operation with no ties to CMP. All of this makes the audit trail clear and easy for Congress to look at concerning sells of the 1911.
__________________
Mark Johnson, CMP Chief Operating Officer
Click to expand...
 
O brother, glad my 1911 wants are well met. Seems like they are over thinking this processes, my M1 was easy to order and came right to my door when I lived in base housing.

This reminds me of the small lot of carbines they got in years ago and everyone went nuts over them.
 
CMP Website:

http://thecmp.org


1911 Information on CMP site

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/1911-information/


Eligibility Requirements

FFL or C&R License fulfills the proof of Marksmanship or Other Firearms Related Activity requirement. Over 60 years old are excused from this requirement.

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/eligibility-requirements/


Sales/Ordering Information. You can download a fillable order form and find out what the mysterious Page 2A is all about. I’d hold off for a bit, they say they have just decided to make a separate CMP 1911 ordering process, maybe a different set of forms?

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/ordering-information/


I believe there will be a new sales form for the CMP 1911s? This FAQ will probably only apply to rifle sales? Check back every couple weeks for more information.

CMP Sales FAQ

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/sales-faq/


CMP Catalog It’s a year old, no 1911s

http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/catalog.pdf?ver=042817



There are Anti-2nd Amendment members of Congress and Anti-Organizations that might have just become aware of the CMP and would like to kill it. There has been the beginnings of freaking out over the 1911 sales. The CMP is going to great lengths to make their CMP 1911s sales program above criticism. Therefore the extra Background Check by your local FFL and no shipments direct to your home.

The CMP does has not yet taken delivery of any 1911s from the US Army. Not clear when this might happen. Hopefully soon, but no promises. CMP is confident enough that they are making these announcements and setting new requirements.
 
Believable rumor has it that the CMP 1911s will start at around $900 or $1000 for rack grade and go up from there. CMP will examine, repair, adjust and test fire all guns. Exceptional guns of special interest to collectors will go to the CMP Auctions.

You will know for sure about prices when your name comes up and you receive your CMP email listing grades available and their prices.

Might be Summer or Fall before actual sales start. Have to wait and see.
 
Anything from CMP would be an improvement over what some of these poor suckers are getting stuck with.
Click to expand...

Small point of order here, nobody is being forced to buy them. If you buy crap (meaning it wasn't what you thought it was) its still a choice on the part of the buyer.

My main objection to the new requirements are the need to pay for a transfer through an FFL. The rifles were shipped to my front door.
Click to expand...

Seems like they are over thinking this processes, my M1 was easy to order and came right to my door when I lived in base housing.
Click to expand...

The difference here is that RIFLES are legally different from handguns. And the CMP rifles were sold under special rules, compared to a regular commercial sale.

Pistols are different. Every state has differing legal requirements for ownership, over and above the Fed rules and laws covering purchase.

The CMP has to go that extra mile to ensure every one of its pistols (when they finally get them) goes ONLY to people who meet all the legal and organizational requirements, Federal, and state.

If even one pistol goes to someone who should not have it (let alone be used in a crime) the anti's will seize on that and use it as an "example" to shut down the entire program, or as much as they possibly can.

So no, they aren't coming in your home mail, and yes, you have to jump through all kinds of paperwork hoops to get one. If you want someone to blame for that, blame the anti-gun folks, because they ARE the reason.
 
Small point of order here, nobody is being forced to buy them. If you buy crap (meaning it wasn't what you thought it was) its still a choice on the part of the buyer.
Click to expand...

I have been told this before, in connection with artfully restored vs original guns.
There is a difference between an overenthusiastic undereducated buyer overpaying and the overrepresentation and outright fraud I am talking about.
 
44 AMP said:
Small point of order here, nobody is being forced to buy them. If you buy crap (meaning it wasn't what you thought it was) its still a choice on the part of the buyer.
Click to expand...

Are you actually saying that it is ok to commit fraud? If you look around the closely in the vintage 1911 market there is out right fraud being committed all over the place. I see guns all the time deliberately misrepresented in a manner that is criminal.

I am all for caveat emptor but we as a community too often look the other way when people are deliberately ripped off in the exact same manner you are in this thread I think it is shameful. Clearly YMMV
 
Are you actually saying that it is ok to commit fraud?
Click to expand...

Are you actually accusing me of saying its ok to commit fraud??

And I'm not "looking the other way". What I am saying is that rule #1 of collecting anything is "know what you are looking at, and what you are looking for".

IF there is so much fraud and fakes in that market, and you can spot them, why can't those who are buying them spot them??

Because they "leap before they look" would be my guess. Either you spend the time and effort to educate yourself on what is, and isn't authentic, or you pay someone who has, or you pay through the nose for your ignorance.

Any way you choose to go about it, it is still a voluntary choice. No, I do not condone fraud, or misrepresentation. It's a crime. Forgeries are the bane of all collectors no matter if its guns or fine art, or something else.
 
44 AMP said:
Are you actually accusing me of saying its ok to commit fraud??

And I'm not "looking the other way". What I am saying is that rule #1 of collecting anything is "know what you are looking at, and what you are looking for".

IF there is so much fraud and fakes in that market, and you can spot them, why can't those who are buying them spot them??

Because they "leap before they look" would be my guess. Either you spend the time and effort to educate yourself on what is, and isn't authentic, or you pay someone who has, or you pay through the nose for your ignorance.

Any way you choose to go about it, it is still a voluntary choice. No, I do not condone fraud, or misrepresentation. It's a crime. Forgeries are the bane of all collectors no matter if its guns or fine art, or something else.
Click to expand...

You are being contradictory. The one who is committing the intentional fraud is bares the majority of the responsibility. The choice made by a consumer who might not be as knowledgeable about a particular object has less culpability. They have no ill intent yet you seem completely indifferent to their plight.

Your verbiage is dismissive and is in fact looking the other way. IMHO

Back to the topic at hand. I am willing to bet at the end of the day more people are going to be disappointed with this opportunity than was initially anticipated. I hope I am wrong but it seems like it is being set up to be a big SNAFU.

One question I have is how are they going to receive the initial mailed request? If you just go by post mark surely they will receive more than 10,000 and they all will be post marked the same day yet they will arrive at the whim of the USPS.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top