Aguila Blanca
Staff
How close were the votes? Are there enough votes to override a veto?9x18 Walther said:
CMP 1911s ...1/3 of the way there
- Thread starter 1stmar
- Start date
The 2016 NDAA is a huge bill, of which the CMP issue is only a tiny part. Don't misunderstand, I think Obama is hostile to any private gun ownership and he has proven that his idea of "reasonable" is like Brutus being "honorable".
That said, the likelihood of a veto hinges on the budget and domestic entitlement programs more than it does on the CMP.
That said, the likelihood of a veto hinges on the budget and domestic entitlement programs more than it does on the CMP.
kilimanjaro
New member
He's going to have to cave on this budget bill, or pull out of Syria entirely. He'll sign it, over lots of table-thumping and noisy speeches.
9x18_Walther
New member
That is what I was hoping... Take the emphasis off something that is far from a problem.
That damn Huffington Post article on the amendment for the CMP was infuriating. How someone can get away spreading lies and falsehoods about the program is disgusting.
$500 bucks for a Glock that will work everytime. Probably close to a $1000 for a CMP one that may or may not have problems.
What is a criminal going to buy?
That's the other piece of it for me. I paid $1200 for a 1943 Remington Rand and I haven't found a nicer one since for less. Where would the CMP set the price? There are lots of great 1911s for great prices. Once the collectors are satiated, who would pay more than $400 for one?
It's different with Garands. There are Garands on the civilian market at twice the price but there are no inexpensive copies.
It's different with Garands. There are Garands on the civilian market at twice the price but there are no inexpensive copies.
9x18_Walther
New member
If this does eventually get passed into law, it is going to be a real long time until the CMP releases any information.
The CMP is going to have to disassemble each pistol, replace parts as necessary, and grade each example.
After the initial bulk has been processed, I imagine the CMP would then take a look at the different manufacturers and conditions of the inventory and set prices around that.
You won't be buying a CMP 1911 until 2016 for sure.
Cheapshooter
New member
Or just through them all in a foundry furnace under an Obama "Executive order"!
Aguila Blanca
Staff
The CMP is no longer the DCM (Department of Civilian Marksmanship). The CMP is now a private entity. I don't believe they are subject to executive orders of the president.
9x18_Walther
New member
No clue. But as of right now, the 1911s are in the possession of the Army, so theoretically this whole thing could pass and then a few weeks before the transfer occur Obama can order the Army to melt the 1911s.
Sorry, we would transfer them to you, but we don't have any left...
cougar gt-e
New member
^ and I thought i was a pessimist!
The CMP is run by civilians, (since 1996) but operate under a Congressional Charter. Basically the same charter enacted in 1904.
Prior to 1996 the Army Ran the program (DCM) and was dependent on tax dollars. In 1996, the charter was changed turning the operation over to civilians. The get no federal funds. All funds are obtained from sales.
They get their guns from the Army. It is cheaper for the Army to give the guns to the CMP then it is for them to destroy or store them.
As mentioned above, during the Advanced Maint. Course in Aug. I toured the CMP operation and did see several crates of M1911/M1911A1s.
Anniston Army Depot is the Army's largest small arms storage depot.
Yesterday I got an e-mail from the CMP that the Senate, like the House passed the Defense Authorization Funding bill that does allow the CMP to sell the pistols to US Citizens.
The bill not goes to the president for his signature. He has threatened to veto the bill for other reasons (which is not the topic here). Whether he does or not is up in the air.
Assuming he signs the DAF bill, there wont be put on the shelves for a while.
Prior to selling any guns the CMP armors go over them inspecting, (rebuilding if necessary) and pricing. This is going to take a while.
The CMP honors state gun laws, meaning if a state forbids the sale/or possession of a certain gun, they will not sell the gun to that state. The Carbines were a good example of that. Some states consider the carbine because they have a box mag. that holds more then 10 rounds, and most come with a bayonet lug. I don't know which states or what guns they will or will not allow. Living in Wyoming, its a non issue.
I do believe the 1911s will be released eventually, I don't believe, even in the best estimates it wont be soon, and judging from the demand I believe they will be pricy.
Whether I buy one if and when they are released remains to be seen. I have one and not sure I need another, depends on the price and if I'm even still alive.
In short I wouldn't get excited and start loading ammo yet.
However the CMP is selling new USGI 1911 Mags. Limit 10 per person. I ordered and received mine a will back. They are good reliable magazines. I believe they were $80 for the 10, rapped in original oil stained paper in clear plastic bags.
Not a CMP gun but my 1911a1 I got in the 70s, but I don't remember where. Well worth owning and they shoot. First time I fired one was in MP AIT in 1966. Shot a expert in a practice qualification course to see who of us needed more pistol training. I didn't get to shoot anymore, shooting expert I got put on detail so they could direct their attention to those who had problems.
I've shot the crap out of them since. I love the pistol but not sure I'd buy another one unless??????
Prior to 1996 the Army Ran the program (DCM) and was dependent on tax dollars. In 1996, the charter was changed turning the operation over to civilians. The get no federal funds. All funds are obtained from sales.
They get their guns from the Army. It is cheaper for the Army to give the guns to the CMP then it is for them to destroy or store them.
As mentioned above, during the Advanced Maint. Course in Aug. I toured the CMP operation and did see several crates of M1911/M1911A1s.
Anniston Army Depot is the Army's largest small arms storage depot.
Yesterday I got an e-mail from the CMP that the Senate, like the House passed the Defense Authorization Funding bill that does allow the CMP to sell the pistols to US Citizens.
The bill not goes to the president for his signature. He has threatened to veto the bill for other reasons (which is not the topic here). Whether he does or not is up in the air.
Assuming he signs the DAF bill, there wont be put on the shelves for a while.
Prior to selling any guns the CMP armors go over them inspecting, (rebuilding if necessary) and pricing. This is going to take a while.
The CMP honors state gun laws, meaning if a state forbids the sale/or possession of a certain gun, they will not sell the gun to that state. The Carbines were a good example of that. Some states consider the carbine because they have a box mag. that holds more then 10 rounds, and most come with a bayonet lug. I don't know which states or what guns they will or will not allow. Living in Wyoming, its a non issue.
I do believe the 1911s will be released eventually, I don't believe, even in the best estimates it wont be soon, and judging from the demand I believe they will be pricy.
Whether I buy one if and when they are released remains to be seen. I have one and not sure I need another, depends on the price and if I'm even still alive.
In short I wouldn't get excited and start loading ammo yet.
However the CMP is selling new USGI 1911 Mags. Limit 10 per person. I ordered and received mine a will back. They are good reliable magazines. I believe they were $80 for the 10, rapped in original oil stained paper in clear plastic bags.
Not a CMP gun but my 1911a1 I got in the 70s, but I don't remember where. Well worth owning and they shoot. First time I fired one was in MP AIT in 1966. Shot a expert in a practice qualification course to see who of us needed more pistol training. I didn't get to shoot anymore, shooting expert I got put on detail so they could direct their attention to those who had problems.
I've shot the crap out of them since. I love the pistol but not sure I'd buy another one unless??????
9x18_Walther
New member
I was hoping for NOS (as in 70s and earlier) 1911 magazines. These appear to be Check-Mates made in the early 90s.
Still a good buy.
9x18_Walther
New member
I'm of the thinking that they will all be sold under the guise of being collectibles. GI 1911s often fetch over 1k right now.
I doubt they are expecting a lot of people buying them as shooters.
I'd buy a pretty beat up one to have the frame refinished so that I could make a MEU(SOC) clone.
Keep in mind that a LOT of these guns were made to meet war time needs. As a result, the slides were not fully heat treated. The slides were heat treated around the slide stop notch and maybe the first couple of inches. You would be a lot better off going a different route.
I think most of the interest in these pistols would be for nostalgia and collecting. I would buy one if not prohibitively expensive just for that reason. It would look nice next the Garand. I probably wouldn't put more than a few rounds a year through it.
I hope that was a joke. The market's out there. You'll see when (and if) the CMP starts selling those M1911's they are going to get swamped, there will be back logs and the Sales Site will lock up.
The problem with the USGI 1911s is people don't understand them. The so called "better" 1911s our there are too tight and will have feeding/ejecting problem until they are shot loose, then they might work like a USGI.
They rattle, they are suppose to rattle. Its called reliability.
Take one of those ralltely old 1911s, MAKE SURE ITS EMPTY. Dry fire it. When you pull the trigger and the hammer falls, don't release the trigger. Hold it back, not try to wiggle the barrel at the muzzle. You'll see its tight. While holding the trigger (not letting it re-set) shake the gun. Not much wiggling.
That's the way the gun is suppose to work.
The gun don't shoot, because people don't know how to shoot it.
The biggest problem with the USGI is the little bitty sights. You can get around that too. Take a cigarette lighter and blacking the sights, smoke them with soot.
If you still have problems extend the pistol out to the length of your hand. Measure the distance from the front sight to your eye.
Then go to the drug store and find some cheep reading glasses. Take you measurement you obtained and buy some glasses with the powder that focuses on that distance.
The as issue service pistols are not 'BULLSEYE" match guns, they are combat guns. There is no reason any of them shouldn't be able to stay in the scoring rights of a B-27 target at 50 yards. I don't mean the 10 ring but the scoring rings.
Being reliable the are cheap to shoot. In mine I use 3.8 gr of Bulleye and cast 230 RN bullets. I have a good supply of brass, and get free range lead for casting.
It cost me about $.045 per round. That's $2.25 per box of 50.
How much did you pay for a 50 count box of 22s lately.
And they shoot. Mild recold. They are reliable. I never hit a steel target that didn't fall with that load.
That load is the same load I use in Bullseye Matches using my Cold Gold Cup.
Don't kid your self thinking there wont be a demand.
If you have one or get one and its too loose to suit you. Brownells makes the tools to tighten them up. I have a set, they work, but over the years I found its not necessary.
Limnophile
New member
Glocks are praised for the reliability they have due to being loose fitting. Browning designed the 1911 with substantial tolerances so it would be reliable under dirty battlefield conditions. People buying 1911s these days want them tight to enhance accuracy because the Army tightened them up for bullseye competition. Also, the typical armed citizen is not likely to find himself crawling in the dirt; whereas, an infantryman can expect to be doing that.
My guess is that any milsurp 1911s sold by the CMP will be attractively priced.
My guess is that any milsurp 1911s sold by the CMP will be attractively priced.
If the cmp sells them, they won't be cheap. They seem to be in the business of making a profit lately. Prices on Garands and ammo have risen every year. I have 2 Garands bought 18 months apart. Both service grades. The last one I bought was 150 bucks more than the other.
As for troops not obeying an order to seize weapons, I don't believe they would disobey it. Oath of no oath, if they were told to do it, they'd do it. Most of the military today are not lifers. They're in it for the GI bill or to get out of their Podunk town. That being said, I don't believe there will ever be a mass confiscation. Cost to much money with lots of collateral. I can see a mass buyback though. Leave it up to the gun owner if he wants to sell it. And even then it's unlikely. You'd have to give at least a fair price if not a great price and there would be no point unless they stopped making new guns anyway. Why take guns off the street only to have them replaced with new ones?
As for troops not obeying an order to seize weapons, I don't believe they would disobey it. Oath of no oath, if they were told to do it, they'd do it. Most of the military today are not lifers. They're in it for the GI bill or to get out of their Podunk town. That being said, I don't believe there will ever be a mass confiscation. Cost to much money with lots of collateral. I can see a mass buyback though. Leave it up to the gun owner if he wants to sell it. And even then it's unlikely. You'd have to give at least a fair price if not a great price and there would be no point unless they stopped making new guns anyway. Why take guns off the street only to have them replaced with new ones?
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Its not about profit, its about accomplishing a mission they were chartered by congress to do.
The CMPs mission is NOT to sell guns, its to train the Citizen in marksmanship.
Unlike their predecessor, the DCM, the CMP gets no federal funding. All its funding comes from the sales of firearms and equipment.
Through Civilian Leadership the program has grown like the DCM never could because of the limited federal funds they got each year.
I started shooting under the DCM, and I can tell you there is no difference.
I bought my first Garand in 1981-82, for $112.70 delivered to my door, no choice, once in a life time deal and I jumped through a lot more hoops back then. My last Garand was a Special Grand for $970 or so this last Aug. Price wise, based on what I made in 1980 and what I make now, the Special Garand was cheaper.
I got my Distinguished Rifle Badge under the DCM. From the time I got my last leg points to the time I got my badge, was 18 months. Now the paper work beats you home from the match.
There is no comparison in regards to the support juniors get now then under the DCM. The CMP had turned the GSM program to the fastest growing shooting sports in the country.
The Shooting and training facilities now would boggle the minds of those who started out in the DCM program.
Its not just current operations the CMP has to contend with, but future when the surplus guns are gone. They have prepared and invested to continue the program.
No I do not believe the CMP guns and accessories are over priced. For what you get, beyond the gun and ammo.
I'm no way condemning the DCM. They did what they could with the limited funds and were at the whims of what every party was in control and their feelings on guns. Fighting for each and every dollar they got.
Now under the CMP Charter, its not a year to year funding program. Therefore they can plan for the future and expand.
I seriously believe the CMP is what Teddy Roosevelt envisioned when he started the program in 1904.