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I have no experience with foam mace, but I imagine that even foam will ahve some residual discharge that would effect everyone (including the defender) in the room and adjacent rooms connected by ventilation. Still, foam mace is a good idea. To be honest, if you're in a situation in which you have to use mace, I doubt anyone will be too upset if they get a sore throat and runny eyes from you using mace on an attacker. Unless they are the type looking for a reason to sue. But if they are that type then any kind of weapon you use against an attacker puts you at risk for a lawsuit.

I would also like to remind posters that the attacker is intoxicated. I don't know if bullets would incapacitate an attacker quickly enough for them to not do harm. Either way the fact that the attacker may be impervious to pain is something to be considered.

While the fire extinguisher idea is good, I wonder about the deployment time of something like that. Like Don said, you may consider pulling the safety pin when you get it so that you're not fumbling for it in a situation. Also get the kind you can use one handed. Maybe a little handheld one like they sell for cars. Otherwise this seems like a very good option... I like this.

In my state tazers and their equivalents are banned for civilian use, this may be similar in your state. This would be the ideal in my opinion; no risk of third party harm, gives distance, quickly deployed, incapacitates immediately.

I highly doubt you will be immediately put in jail for an act of self defense. Especially if it's a male attacker and a female defender. 95% of self defense shootings I can think of the defender was put in jail way after the shooting. If you're that worried about, get cameras for the office for proof that it was justified. If that's not possible, voice recorders.
 
At 8 feet, you think I'd have time to draw?
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If attacked from 8 feet, unless it is in your hand already, you won't be able to use the gun/knife/pepper foam.

You will need to open up distance in order to deploy any weapon other than going 'hands-on'.

Just food for thought.
 
Good feedback and suggestions. And I think I have the local lawyer things covered due to a friendly forum user :D

Animal, you're thinking like me. I've been trolling for LE. Not just because I like them, I do, but because I think we could be helpful to each other. I actually have some things to offer that might help in their job as well. They don't get enough training around certain areas and are sometimes unsure how to evaluate these certain types of situations. That became known to my colleagues several years back and we lobbied for more training. As of late, it does seem to be going better. But 1000% of the time, when I'm interacting with local LE, in any capacity, even getting a speeding ticket, it's a good interaction. They've helped me help many people in the past.

So.....how does one become friends with a local LEO? :rolleyes: I've been hoping to run into some at the ranges, but none so far. Maybe I haven't hit the right range. Seems like shooting guns has been a natural shared interest with people.
 
I've never used the pepper foam, but have used Fox labs 5.3 SHU spray with UV dye.

Since it would be a worst case scenario, the ventilation is a secondary concern. If it saves your life who cares if they have to evacuate adjacent offices?

I have been hit with the spray in training and it is very effective.

As far as getting to it in time, some self adhesive velcro strips would secure it nicely in any notebook you may be holding during interviews.

As far as walking to the parking area, stick to your gun.
 
So.....how does one become friends with a local LEO?
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I’m sure the cops can answer that one better, but here’s my take.

Any number of ways. I have the good fortune to work in the worst areas in town, so most of my contact comes from that.
Charity work is another good way. Some groups of cops/ depts. have pet charity projects that you can volunteer to help with if you like the goals of the charity.
Help them out by reporting in person if you see really suspicious activity somewhere. You never know when a detective might be watching a drug house or wondering where it was moved to … and you happened to see a drop.
Stop and offer assistance when you see a wreck, and stay to put your name down as a witness when the cops get there.

The same way you make friends with anyone outside of your "normal circle" … alter your circle to include them, show them who you are, and if they want to be your friend, it’ll happen … polite small-talk when you happen to run into them and they’re not busy, help ‘em out without getting in the way, avoid jokes about donuts when talking to the fat ones (just thought I’d slip that in:p:D).

I dunno if I’ve ever run into a cop at a private range except when taking instructor classes with them, or at a match… Run into ‘em pretty regularly at gun shops though.
My experience with cops hasn’t been 100% favorable, but the in the vast majority of cases it has been ... let’s say 99% for the heck of it. No guarantees in anything, but there are safe bets.

Buying a Glock ? … evil is never justified by good intentions…. just kidding, just kidding …:)
 
@animal, I just used up some good material. There's REGULAR hand to hand drug deals occurring behind my office building, often in front of my parked car. I try not to park back there but when I do and I see them, I try not to let them see me noticing them. As a result, I've been a crappy witness. I called Drugs and Vice last week to make a report of a series of different individuals behind my building. Now I don't park there. Seems stupid. The lady on the phone wasn't LEO, just took some kind of general report and put in a "request for additional" whatever whatever. I also made an online report of all the gang tagging that's new in the area. I DO however, have a local officer coming to see me at my office at 9 AM tomorrow. He seems nice via phone tag. I have specific safety questions for him. If I was a dude, this might be easier to friend LEO. As a chic, most of my social interactions with them, while they're writing up my statement about the stuff stolen from my car has been around their wives, what's a Beekman briefcase, my wife likes Coach, etc. Gotta change my tactics. I DO spend way too much time in guns shops. But that tends to be expensive given my poor impulse control. My most previous instructor trains LEO and we're friendly. I'm hoping that will bloom into me friending LEO as well. He's in need of my services, but I had to decline :D Gave him bullets instead.
 
It’s better to be a crappy witness than for the druggies to suspect you of ratting them out. I didn’t mean go looking for trouble … just be willing to report what you happen to see. You sure don’t want to have to worry about them too.("hand to hand" passes are small potatoes anyway. would be shocking to me if more than a rock or two and money pass at the same point if they're doing that ... instead of the money/signal/ pick-up-at-second-spot routine)

I would have gone to the cop-shop in person and just talked to the detective on duty… face to face contact with at least 3 people usually, and avoiding open contact with the cops in the neighborhood. Maybe your local PD doesn’t work that way, dunno. He’ll probably leave you his card and tell you to call him if you see more of the stuff going on … again, DON’T go looking for it … please.

Change tactics? Sounds like you’re hunting or something. Just be yourself. Real friendships come naturally that way. Geez, If this crusty, hard-headed, SOB (to put it nicely as possible), can make friends without trying, anybody can. The key for me is exposure to higher numbers and being open to friendship rather than hunting, I think. Besides, if the cop thinks he’s being hunted, there’s a good chance he’s gonna wonder why … and what you’re hunting for. Confusion could be bad. jmo.

A suggestion for gaining time if a guy tries to come around a desk… Not quite a spike-board, but it’s already there and legal. Pull out the side drawer as you turn to go the other way. Only gains a fraction of a second, but might help.
 
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Yeah now that I think I through, I doubt it will happen. We are all in our roles when we meet each other, and that doesn't naturally progress to friendship. Unless I meet them shooting and we shares guns, it's unlikely occur. I've never friended someone with an agenda, with the exception shooting male buddies. And that's explicitly stated. Feels kind of creepy. If someone wanted to friend me for what I do, I'd be worried and see it a mile away anyway. Nice thought, but unless it falls from the sky, unlikely to happen.

On the desk drawer thing, good point. The desk one isn't in a place to be useful, but I do have a large filing cabinet that could be helpful. Also, if I can't get out of the office, that means I'm trapped at my desk. I'd hit the panic button and maybe crawl under the desk and pull the chair in front of me? Hopefully I'd be able to talk them down in they're blocking the door. Or throw what they want, or what they might want at them, so they take it and run.
 
What about hair spray? I have a little can in my purse often anyway. I know it sucks when I get it in my eyes! Should I add this to the non-weapon things I'm going to spray, shoot, push, and throw at the BG?
 
Lots of good suggestions in this thread. If I were in a position that I needed to meet with possibly dangerously unbalanced people on a regular basis, I'd do most of the stuff suggested here. I'd definitely get some pepper foam and get somebody to show me how to use it. (In my case, my brother-in-law, who is a police officer, showed me how to use pepper spray properly.) I'd also set up a series of other non-lethal defense methods, probably including the fire extinguisher.

And, assuming I didn't already have my concealed carry permit and a gun, I would get both. It's a pity that so many people in some geographic locations and some circles view gun ownership as a sign of badness, but I would *not* let their irrational prejudice keep me from being able to defend myself properly against a threat to my life.

In other words, what you're doing already. :-)
 
The OP scene described Siggy in a chair, in front of her is a coffee table, beyond that is an agitated person sitting on a couch.

This scene does not lend itself to fire extinguishers, pepper spray, bug spray, or like devices, unless such devices are in view of Agitated Person. Gun can be at hand but not on person. How quickly can a fire extinguisher be unleashed? pepper spray? those like devices? None in less than one half second.

Where is the gun? Probably not a good idea to have it out in view of Agitated Person. Odd to be allowed at hand but not on person. Which means probably not attainable is less than one half second.

Agitated Person can be across coffee table in one half second. After Panic Button is installed with ten minutes response time that means Agitated Person has nine minutes, fifty-nine and one half seconds to make disaster on Siggy and use all said devices against her instead of vice versa.

This job places a lone female in a potentially dangerous situation with no immediate protection? no barrier between lone female and possible attacker? proposed Panic Button with ten minutes response time? lone female does not have option of a different job?

Siggy, you’re holding Jack high against a pair of Aces.
 
During your interviews have a pen and notebook with you, if you get attacked stab them in the eye. An eye injury will take someone out of commision more effectively than a hit to the groin, and its easier to achieve in a struggle. It will at least slow down the attack so you can flee the room while the police respond to you panick button. It is also easier to explain away if you get accused of over reacting: "I just tried to push him away, I didn't even realize the pen was in my hand!" This also works with car keys, nothing says that when you punch someone in self defense you have to check your fist first to make sure your 3" car key isn't protruding from between your 2nd and 3rd fingers. (Except on your way to the car your gun is a better weapon than keys!)
 
fall out of the sky.. yeah, pretty much, but …unpredictable in any single instance, but the uncertainty of befriending someone decreases relative to the number of instances, so befriending someone becomes increasingly predictable as exposure to the quantity of people you meet increases.
As far as I can see, a perfectly acceptable tactic for befriending people of certain backgrounds would be to expose yourself to "their world" and simply act as yourself. Those in that "world" who see your entry into it as positive, would be naturally attracted to you, and the possibility of positive relationships open if the attraction is mutual. Chances are, you can put yourself in a position to meet as many as you care to without the creepiness of stalking anyone, or the idea of latching on to someone because they’re a cop. You just meet them because they’re cops, if befriending one or ten "falls out of the sky", that’s cool too. Yeah, it "just happens", but it happens all the time when you’re in the right place.

Hairspray, even the old AquaNet grandma used … nearly useless for defense. That little burn is nothing compared to a good pepper spray.
A steaming hot cup of coffee handy would be lots better, but still of little value against a determined attacker, except for gaining a little bit of time..

imo …Your # 1 "weapon" is going to be reading the possible attacker’s signals (verbal, body language, etc) so that you can talk him down, back off and let him relax, get a weapon in hand and use it in time, or "exit-stage-left". While I disagree with the half-second as being likely if you are watching for signals from him, it is possible and would really suck. Having stuff handy like the pen suggestion, keys, pepper, knife, et al., isn’t gonna automatically get you out of it. These things will only give you a chance to fight back, and only then if the opportunity to use them presents itself.
If you do choose to carry a knife, and since you aren’t trained with it, I’d suggest that it would be better if he felt it before he saw it, if you know what I mean. Same with just about any lethal weapon, imo.
 
Yes Clay, I am. However, I can bluff and smooth talk like a mofo. The two most recent incidences I was involved in would have gone awry with another colleague with more testosterone, or who couldn't pull a lulling drawl out of her back pocket. And they have. I just talked to a colleague who was stabbed a few months ago. He had his carry on him. However, he comes off as a know it all and was probably posturing. Still, crazy world. I've also learned to listen acutely to the slightest rise of hair on the back of my neck or the voice in my head that says "something feels funky here" and start the de-escalation and exiting process smoothly and promptly.

Yes I know it sucks. But it is what it is. I'm seeking firearm skilled professional counsel :) and much further training. Also, I'll be very nice to the local LEO who will be in my office in twenty minutes. I even wore a skirt. My hope is that between smooth talking, I can get an extra few seconds to get to said fire extinguisher, pepper foam, lethal pen, panic button. It may not work but what other choice do I have?

As for more exposure to LE, still not quite sure how to do that. Gun shop sounds like it's the only likely area we'd bump into each other off duty. However, you'd be surprised how many great things and people have "fallen out of the sky" when needed. I'm still alive, right? I'd tell you some stories but it would compromise my safety. But suffice it to say, I should have been dead a few times now, but people and things "fell out of the sky." I'm hoping more luck will occur now that I have my new lucky charm, Sig P232. But just in case it doesn't work like that:rolleyes:, I'll train like hell.

And Bill, my dad taught me that one since I was knee high. Thanks for the warm reminder. Even though I don't use car keys anymore, I walk to the car with them in my hand in that way, scanning along the way. He was in corrections.
 
I would go for Raid wasp spray. No one will blink if it's laying around, sprays pretty far, and its a nice tight spray, (doesn't go everywhere) and the BG is likely going to have to go to the ER. Every woman in my family carries a can in their car for just this reason. Plus you get a lot of "bang for your buck".
 
Siggy?

Without exactly knowing the dynamics of your job, or your clients I think you pretty much have the tiger by the tail.

After an experience like that I would (if possible) give personal security a little more consideration when shedualing appointments. Outside that possibility I might be a little quicker to call for some help when things first start to go south... Not after I realize that i've lost control of the situation. Another thing to consider is to feign illness, or natures call, and leave ...

The use of chemical sprays, firearms and other devices definately have their place. But in order to justify any of them you should have taken other precaution when your in your own element. IMO ultimately having a firearm is in order. Your life, and health is worth more than any job. LTL devices, and improvised weapons work well most of the time. Firearms usually have the final say.

As far as firearms... I personally would recomend a small, full weight, hamerless, or shrouded revolver. In the close quarters you describe I'd want that small revolver. A small revolver is more easily retained, and controlled in a physical altercation. Such a revolver has only smooth, and rounded surfaces that make it difficult for you adversary to gain a hold of. A small hidden hammer revolver can also be fired from almost any position you find yourself. In my own experience, based on the limited sight radius of a 2" revolver point shooting is more accurate than with a larger pistol or revolver. Further as you become more concerned about the situation a small hamerless, or shrouded revolver can be held in your hand while still in your purse, or jacket pocket keeping the B/G covered without him, or anyone else knowing it. Ultimately with this kind of a small revolver you can shoot through the purse or pocket repeatedly. God forbid this should happen... If you are attacked, and you are in close contact with the offenders body. A small revolver can be placed against the offenders body, and fired without malfunction. ( thats why they call them belly guns)

All the advice given is IMO good advice. I got a few good ideas from this thread myself.


Glenn Dee
 
A shout out for local LE

Glenn, thanks for the "nature calls" one. I'll add that to the kit. And point taken on the revolver.

For anyone following, I met with local PD for an hour this AM. He was kind, patient and an excellent listener. Even though he didn't know a whole lot about my situation up front, he came prepared with multiple resources for me to check out. Off the top of his head he came up with many useful suggestions. Then he emailed me the preliminary report (very detailed despite little note taking) a few minutes ago, conveniently leaving out anything that could potentially backfire on me in the future and offered further suggestions. It felt good being able to give him a little back story about why the drug addicts are climbing the wall in the city at the moment, more than usual. Our jobs intersect a lot. At the end, I asked if there was anything I could do to be helpful to him or his department. He seemed surprised, dropped his role for a sec, and I could tell he was thinking about it. I reiterated the offer in the return email in case he comes up with something good. He signed first name only so @animal, we will see :rolleyes:. I really do want to be helpful to local law enforcement. Their jobs are harder than mine and we are often helping or protecting the same people so I do feel for them. They've been nothing but accommodating every time I've interacted with them. IMHO, our professions don't talk enough. He provided a lot of detailed info about the local tagging and drug activity I've been watching, which eased my mind. And I provided pertinent info that seemed useful to him. It went well :D Even though many of you have figured out what I do for a living, I appreciate your discretion. As of yet, I'm not too searchable online. I'd like to remain so.
 
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