Click It or Ticket Mobilization

[jefnvk]

MI is indeed Michigan.

I just cannot believe that some people will fight tooth and nail for something specifically written in the Constitution, then turn around and base everything else over whether or not they feel it is a good idea.

Some people feel that a world without guns would make life more enjoyable and safe. If we didn't have guns, we woudn't have anyone shot. Using some of your logic, I am suprised that it isn't your stand.

You cannot have freedom and protect people at the same time. You either give them freedom, including the freedom to do stupid things and hurt themselves, or give them safety, which will require taking all freedom and you making all choices for them.

If you support legislating things to keep people from hurting themselves, why aren't you supporting a ban on smoking? Heck, the decision to smoke will affect more bystander sthan your decision to not wear a safety belt. Why don't we enforce all sexual acts must be done with birth protection, unless you have a note from the doctor saying you are trying to have a baby? Why not ban swimming without a life preserver? Why not just ban firearms, to keep those few hundred accidents and few thousand homicides from happening every year? Not to mention things like hang gliding, mountain climing, sky diving, and scuba diving? Those sports are full of dangers, and there really is no reason to do any of them.

And when do we stop supporting other's ideas to save ourselves? Once you say something should be enforced to keep people from killing themselves, can you really disagree with another idea?

It is not the government's job to protect me from myself.

 

[Rich Lucibella]

XB-
I'm truly sorry for the loss of you child. From all of us, there is not enough thanks available to you and your family for your loss and sacrifice. Know that what that child fought for is still alive and well in the Real USA....

Despite the thoughtless reactions such as, "The State says it's a privilege, so it must be so"; despite the unreviewed positions that attempt to distance us from our duty to our country and it's people with the mantra "I'm just following orders"; The USofA is hardly finished yet.....and the ideals your child fought and died for are hardly dead.

Would you pick up a rifle and defend the brown-hued people?

I certainly hope I would. And I certainly KNOW that I would have no part in enforcing such an abomination simply to keep a job. Frank, I know your retirement is not far away....I pray you make it there safely; and as swiftly as the wheels of bureaucracy can turn.
Rich

 

[FrankDrebin]

I don't advocate children selling crack, pimping or commiting crimes. Your statements are pretty insulting if that is what you garnered from my statements.

I know exactly what you said. You said the government has no business telling you what to do to raise your children safely. Unfortunately, there are many other people out there who do not raise their children with any sense of responsibility, and do, in fact, have them selling dope and running whores, etc....That's why it's necessary to have laws that address the responsibility of a parent for a child. Would you like the legislature to pass a law that only affects select segments of society?

I certainly hope I would. And I certainly KNOW that I would have no part in enforcing such an abomination simply to keep a job.

You have no idea what you would do in that situation until you're in the middle of it. You think any of the people in the concentration camps would have told you that they'd be feeding their fellow inmates into the ovens to stay alive for 24 more hours? And if you WOULD pick up a rifle to defend the constitution, why aren't you doing it now, given all these unconstitutional laws being passed and enforced by us Gestapo? Isn't NOW the time to nip it in the bud before they come to take your guns?

 

[XavierBreath]

Thank you Rich.

As for me, I would gladly pick up a rifle and defend brown skinned people from injustice. I have done it before, I would do it again.

If the Founding Fathers had thought like some people here, we would still be paying taxes to the monarchy in England and giving a damn about Charles and Camilla.
The United States of America was founded on ideals, not laws. For anyone interested, those ideals can be found here.

 

[Rich Lucibella]

You have no idea what you would do in that situation until you're in the middle of it.

Well Frank. You already stated what you would do. Am I any less a master of my own destiny than you?

You think any of the people in the concentration camps would have told you that they'd be feeding their fellow inmates into the ovens to stay alive for 24 more hours?

And what makes you think they all did so, Frank? Stop projecting your own values.....you cheapen the sacrifices, the kindnesses and the bravery shown by so many interred in those camps.

And if you WOULD pick up a rifle to defend the constitution, why aren't you doing it now, given all these unconstitutional laws being passed and enforced by us Gestapo? Isn't NOW the time to nip it in the bud before they come to take your guns?

Well Frank, you know nothing of what I've done to "defend the constitution"; I, on the other hand, know a fair amount of how far you'd go to "just follow orders". You've made your position on this quite clear. Still it's an easy answer, Frank: probably too late to change the system and certainly too early to start shooting the *&%^$#$^. (thanks Claire)

Rich

 

[FrankDrebin]

Well Frank. You already stated what you would do. Am I any less a master of my own destiny than you?

No, but you may be a little less honest with yourself than I am.

Well Frank, you know nothing of what I've done to "defend the constitution"; I, on the other hand, know a fair amount of how far you'd go to "just follow orders". You've made your position on this quite clear. Still it's an easy answer, Frank: probably too late to change the system and certainly too early to start shooting the *&%^$#$^. (thanks Claire)

I know that you haven't picked up a rifle here at home to start the revolution. If you had, you'd be in prison. But it's not that important to you yet? Sounds to me like you think it's just about the right time for me to throw away my career and family's future but not early enough for you to do the same.

And what makes you think they all did so, Frank? Stop projecting your own values.....you cheapen the sacrifices, the kindnesses and the bravery shown by so many interred in those camps.

And you coopt their sacrifice by assuming you'd do the same thing they did under similar circumstances. I never said they all did. I asked you if you thought the people who cooperated with the Germans would have told you ahead of time that they were the type of people who would do that to live another day. You don't know what you would do here at home if the Supreme Court said tomorrow that it was OK to own people again. You THINK you would pick up a rifle and lead the charge, but you don't know. It's a little different than being inserted at the order of your government to fight in another country's civil war, with the blessing of your government.

 

[Wraith]

I wouldn't agree with it, and if it came down to enforcing it or being fired, I'd probably enforce it.

Thank you for showing your true colors, Frank.

Would you pick up a rifle and defend the brown-hued people?

Why do you think I own rifles?



~Stan

 

[FrankDrebin]

Why do you think I own rifles?

I don't know, why do you own rifles? By the sound of things, the constitution is under serious assault with you not being able to own machine guns and mortars by just walking into the gun store and putting cash on the counter, and being forced to wear seatbelts an all. What are you waiting for? The government to mobilize against you in your own living room? Isn't the best defense a good offense? What would you do if the government came to your house with a search warrant to seize all your guns because THEY SAID your neighbor made some kind of claim against you? You think you'd shoot it out with the SWAT team with your family home? I doubt it.

And by the way, the brown-hued people are under attack right now in ghettos all across the country by other brown hued people. How many of the enemy have you taken out so far?

 

[Wraith]

Frank, your ignorance astounds me.

the brown-hued people are under attack right now in ghettos all across the country by other brown hued people.

This is comparable huh?

 

[FrankDrebin]

Frank, your ignorance astounds me.

Your presumtuousness astounds me. I'm asked to answer a silly hypothetical question like "What would you do if the government legalized slavery tomorrow" because I say that I have no problem enforcing the seatbelt law, but you think it's silly to compare the slaughter in the ghettos with a war.

This is comparable huh?

The homicide clearance rate in Detroit is well under 50%. That's just the ones where they have a suspect. The arrest rate is FAR lower than 50%. People will walk up to you and kill you for pocket change. Sounds like a war to me. I bet you that more brown hued people have been killed by homicide in this country in the past 20 years than were KIA in Vietnam.

As for me, I would gladly pick up a rifle and defend brown skinned people from injustice. I have done it before, I would do it again.

So you think a black guy in the ghetto gets the same kind of treatment from the system that a white suburbanite does? Same bond? Same access to lawyers? Same legal representation? How old are you? Who did you shoot with your rifles right here at home when the Klan was bombing, lynching and shooting the brown-hued people down South? You don't think there was and is injustice to the brown hued people right here at home, right now? How many rounds have you fired in their defense here at home? Or when you said you'd "gladly pick up a rifle to defend brown skinned people from injustice" did you mean that you'd "just pick it up". Is pulling the trigger to much for you, or were you just blowing smoke?

Shoot any insurance agents for redlining? Shoot any cops for racial profiling? Shoot any mortage company presidents for unfair lending practices? I'm dealing with real world issues of injustice after you tell me that you'd use a rifle to defend the victims, and you want me to commit to an answer as to what I'd do if slavery were legal tomorrow. So....what have you gladly done with your rifles to defend black victims against institutional injustice? What action have you gladly taken against the US GOVERNMENT with your rifles to end this injustice?

 

[Rich Lucibella]

Sounds to me like you think it's just about the right time for me to throw away my career and family's future

Wouldn't think of it, Frank. But you're dissembling here. All I asked was that you THINK before mindlessly "following orders" in selective enforcement of the myriad laws at your disposal. You've already indicated you enforce selectively, when your personal security is on the line; how 'bout extending that same mindset outside your own personal space?

And please don't make this an "Us vs Them" thread. TFL and I both have a long history of support for Law Enforcement. This side-debate is NOT about any of the cops I know who I'm proud to call "friend". This side-debate is about YOU....your stated values and your admitted behavior. Please don't paint the entire LEO profession with the same brush.

Rich

 

[FrankDrebin]

All I asked was that you THINK before mindlessly "following orders" in enforcement of laws that you've already indicated you enforce selectively, when your personal security is on the line.

What laws did I say I'd selectively enforce based on my personal security? Cut and paste please.

 

[Rich Lucibella]

You don't know what you would do here at home if the Supreme Court said tomorrow that it was OK to own people again. You THINK you would pick up a rifle and lead the charge, but you don't know.

Misrepresenting the written word should be a crime....it injures the misquoted.
I didn't say what I "THINK" I would do Frank. I said:
a) I "HOPE" I would defend
b) I "KNOW" I would not abet that law.

You're the one who stated you'd "probably" ENFORCE it....after all, you have a job to consider.

Please stop. You're killing me.
Rich

 

[XavierBreath]

Hell Frank, do you think the only brown skinned people are in the US?
You say there is a war in the ghetto. You ever been to a war Frank? There is no war in the ghetto. There is lawlessness. Why? Because cops like you fail to do thier jobs.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Misrepresenting the written word should be a crime....it injures the misquoted.
I didn't say what I "THINK" I would do Frank. I said:
a) I "HOPE" I would defend
b) I "KNOW" I would not abet that law.

You said:

I certainly hope I would. And I certainly KNOW that I would have no part in enforcing such an abomination simply to keep a job.

I don't think you know if you would or not until the time comes,

 

[FrankDrebin]

Hell Frank, do you think there are only brown skinned people in the US?
You say there is a war in the ghetto. You ever been to a war Frank? There is no war in the ghetto. There is lawlessness. Why? Because cops like you fail to do thier jobs.

I know there have been more brown skinned people killed right here at home by homicide vs. KIA in Iraq.

Sounds like a great injustice. There certainly isn't this kind of lawlessness in the white suburbs because the cops aren't doing their jobs. How many rounds have you fired to end this tragedy perpetrated against the brown skinned people, right here in America?

This is you Xavier:

As for me, I would gladly pick up a rifle and defend brown skinned people from injustice. I have done it before, I would do it again.

But you haven't fired any rounds here at home, have you? Injustice everywhere against the brown-skinned people, bodies in the street because the government won't do it's job. And where are you with your rifle?

 

[XavierBreath]

How many rounds have you fired to end this tragedy perpetrated against the brown skinned people, right here in America?

And how many Click it or Ticket checkpoints have you attended in the ghetto Frank?

Don't talk of war until you have been to war. there is a difference between lawlessness and war Frank.

 

[FrankDrebin]

And how many Click it or Ticket checkpoints have you attended in the ghetto Frank?

First, as many as I can. Second, I take it that means you haven't fired any rounds at all here at home to fight injustice for the brown-skinned people after all.

Don't talk of war until you have been to war. there is a difference between lawlessness and war Frank.

Fair enough if you agree to not talk about the reasonableness of mandatory seatbelt laws until you've hosed the remains of a family of four out of their mini van, fished a baby and car seat out of a river or taken a kid who was ejected from her car on prom night out of the tree she was impaled on.

You haven't fired any rounds at home because at the current time, you have too much to lose. The risk to you is not worth the reward. Is that true or not?

 

[XavierBreath]

Fair enough if you agree to not talk about the reasonableness of mandatory seatbelt laws until you've hosed the remains of a family of four out of their mini van, fished a baby and car seat out of a river or taken a kid who was ejected from her car on prom night out of the tree she was impaled on.

I see them when they are brought into the Emergency Room. Will that satisfy you? I guess not huh? I have to be at the scene and see the pieces. I'll schedule a ride along with the EMS if you will join the USMC. Deal?

You haven't fired any rounds at home because at the current time, you have too much to lose. The risk to you is not worth the reward. Is that true or not?

There is no reward for going to war Frank. Running the risk of losing your life isn't enough for you? But then, how would you know, right?

 

[FrankDrebin]

I see them when they are brought into the Emergency Room. Will that satisfy you? I guess not huh? I have to be at the scene and see the pieces. I'll schedule a ride along with the EMS if you will join the USMC. Deal?

How bout I schedule a ride along in a war zone with the USMC if you put 35 years on a ghetto police dept. with a crappy pension? Besides, I'm too old to join the USMC...but there's no age restriction at the police dept.!! But you're right, I've never been to war. But since you have, when you were there right there in the thick of things, were you there to defend the constitution of the United States, or were you there to defend the guys next to you? Take Vietnam, for instance. I can think of some good reasons to have inserted our troops into their civil war, but how does that translate to defending the constitution of the United States against laws like the mandatory seatbelt law? Although I haven't been to war, I have talked to plenty of combat veterans from WWII to Iraq. NONE of them ever told me they were fighting in France, Holland, Austria, Iraq, Korea, Vietnam, Kosovo or anywhere else to support the constitution of the US. They talked about freeing the oppressed, in the beginning, and that quickly turned into fighting just to get home. And I don't think it was because they weren't articulate enough to put into words the idea that they joined the military, or were drafted, to go overseas to fight for the US constitution. Maybe they were fighting to maintaint "The American Way of Life", but unfortunately, that includes the case law and how it affects what is constitutional or not, and curently, the mandatory safety belt law. ( I bet you didn't think I would be able to bring it back around to that).

There is no reward for going to war Frank. Running the risk of losing your life isn't enough for you? But then, how would you know, right?

You keep bringing up (I'm inferring) your defense of the US constitution on foreign lands. I'm talking about the reward of restoring the constitution to what you think it should be vs. the risk you will take in picking up your rifle and firing rounds right here at home. Restoring, or imparting justice to the brown-skinned people right here in America by picking up a rifle and firing rounds right here at home WITHOUT the consent of the US government. The people whose justice you said you'd gladly pick up a rifle to defend. I don't think THAT reward is worth the risk to you.

I've risked my life plenty right here at home over the past 20 years, and I dare say, barring troops assigned to combat operations, more often than the majority of individual service people in the military. So I do know a LITTLE about potentially dying on the job.