Citizen's arrest - what's the low-down?

NJ's law on citizen's arrest requires the arrester to have witnessed an indictable offense. The arrestee is under no obligation to submit to an order for citizen's arrest, but by clearly asserting "citizen's arrest," the arrester reduces (does not eliminate) liability. It becomes a liability on the arrestee if the arrestee resists arrest or assaults the arrester. The arrester still acts at his own peril and must be willing to defend his actions in court. Both the police, as well as the courts, will be quite curious as to why you initiated a citizen's arrest, and why you didn't use other options (such as contact police or flee the scene). They will also inquire as to your knowledge about the application of law regarding citizen's arrest. As far as drawing a weapon on somebody, as a civilian you are guilty until proven innocent.

The arrester must also use restraints that will not cause harm to the arrestee. The arrester must also transport the arrestee to a magistrate (the law is quite outdated; if it were to happen today, it would be to a county jail). However, I cannot imagine how jail officers will react to a civilian bringing in an arrested individual.

Police departments (and even private security) have specific regulations they have to follow regarding arrest procedure; some are state requirements, some are department requirements. All requirements are in place for a reason; to prevent the police from acting in a "Dirty Harry" fashion. What's to stop an armed citizen trying to make a citizen's arrest from acting in such a way?

A carry permit (whether here or anywhere else) does not give power of arrest. It only gives you the right to carry in public. Using it, whether to defend yourself against an armed threat, brandishing it to scare someone, or drawing it to try to arrest someone, becomes an action that you must be able to defend in court. Assuming that the law will be on your side is foolish.

I think the only reason that citizen's arrest existed in the first place was because of a lack of law enforcement earlier in history. I further think that NJ's current law assumes that the arrester is a former or retired police officer, and that is the only reason that it is not outlawed altogether. Just my opinions, though.

My advice is this--don't try to make a citizen's arrest unless you are willing to accept all consequences for your actions.
 
Take the example of pulling gun on a BG and yelling "Stop, you are under arrest".
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Hmmm. I can't remember in all the years I was in LE ever pulling my gun and yelling, "Stop, you are under arrest."

When I pulled my gun, a whole string of expletives left my mouth, usually ending with "Get on the (more expletives) ground right (more expletives) now!" or "Hands up (expletive expletive expletive expletive) or I'll (expletive expletive expletive) shoot you!"

Maybe our sisters in the FBI would yell, "Stop! FBI! You're under arrest," but we sure didn't.

Jeff
 
This whole debate is why I love Texas. The defense of self, property, third parties and third parties' property is perfectly lawful as long as it's to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary...

Heck you can put a guy down for stealing your car at "nighttime" and not face any criminal charges.

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.01.00

There isn't a Grand Jury in the State of Texas that would indict a citizen who stopped the criminal actions of a felony suspect by holding him at gunpoint (the equivalent to a "Citizen's Arrest"). Most Texas police officers don't even blink an eye and would be glad for the help (I know am).

Know your state laws and know yourself before acting. Just don't let some innocent die because you are afraid of getting sued. I agree wholeheartedly with the earlier statement that we need to take the country back from the criminals.
 
Up here in Alaska, this is called Private Person Arrest, I have done several while working at the bar. It would also be the same as when a stores loss-prevention department arrests a shoplifter.

Any citizen has the right to detain and apprehend an individual they observe committing a crime. Most of my arrests were for minors trying to get in the bar, the rest were for assault & battery. Almost everyone has cooperated, those who didn't wish they had.

The next step of the PPA is to complete a statement, this will have all of your pertinent info (name, address, phone number, drivers license number); the info of the person being arrested, and detailed account of what happened. It is important not to speculate on this, but give exactly what you saw/heard, not what someone else saw/heard. You have to be willing to testify to everything you put down in writing, and expect for your statement to be challenged by a competant attorney. Often the police that take your suspect will help you with your statement. You need a copy, as does the officer.

Of the 25+ I have arrested or assisted to arrest, only twice have I been subpoenaed (sp?), both times the defendant changed plea so I didn't have to appear.
 
Well said, gvf.

Everyone should re-read gvf's post (#37) over and over. In it, gvf makes a very important point that everyone who does CCW should understand thoroughly.
 
Everyone should re-read gvf's post (#37) over and over. In it, gvf makes a very important point that everyone who does CCW should understand thoroughly.
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I agree. This thread started with the OP being disturbed that a CCW was a waste since he couldn't use his gun for a "citizen's arrest". I don't think anyone has argued the point that it can be but haveing a CCW doesn't give you any additional authority to perform CA or personal defense than you would have otherwise. That is a very important detail that should be driven into the head of every CCW holder or average citizen to start with. There are many that think just because they have a CCW or even a notary public seal they all of a sudden become a deputy sheriff. Why else would you want to run around with a Concealed Weapons Permit badge on? But in the same vein there are some that think the same way if they OC even when there is no requirements other than not being a felon.

How many posts have we seen by someone asking if getting their CCW requires them to get involved in a crime they see happening. Simple answer is the same laws that require you to get involved if you don't have a permit.
 
In the UK anyone making a citizens arrest can be arrested on charges of kidnap. Nevermind the severity of the crime the arrested individual commited...
 
Is it only in movies?
I was under the impression that you cannot legally detain a threat with a gun; perhaps the exclusion being if a criminal broke into your home.

I'm starting to think my CCW is just about worthless; it only allows me to carry in a way that my 2A rights already guarantee...but I have to submit personal info, take a no-brainer test, and pay $50+ to get my (neutered) guaranteed 2A rights.
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Your gun is to be used in defense of your life, and the life of others against illegitimate aggressions that could end up in death.

This applies in my country and I’m sure it works in USA that way too.

Even if you can arrest someone, if someone threatened me in such a way I had a legitimate right to use my gun against him, do I want him coming back for revenge?

I know many cases where people did just that and they later got killed, hurt or had to move because of the constant harassment by the criminals and their family and friends.

The only situation where I’m not shooting is when the bad guy turns and runs like there’s no tomorrow. Otherwise I’m ending this threat to my life right away.

FerFAL
 
An old fellow that I used to hang around with had been shot, cut beaten and been on the sending end of those many times. How he had never been involved in a fatal altercation is a miracle. Anyway he used to tell me that if you wanted to make sure someone left you alone after a fight you had to cut them and leave them holding their guts in their hands. Otherwise they or thier family would come after you. However if you left them holding their life in their hands it would break them on that bad habit.

I don't know but I do know that he had more experience at that type stuff than anyone else I have ever known so I put faith in what he said. he would not ride in the middle of the seat of a pick-up. He either rode against the door or on the back due to experience.
 
Your Concealed Carry Permit is ONLY for carry for personal self defense. It does not grant you any powers to arrest, detain, question, or otherwise harass another person, UNLESS that person is attempting to do serious bodily harm to you, or kill you or yours.

If you feel the need to arrest someone, please go through the police training necessary in your state and get a badge. That citizens arrest crap is nothing but ammunition for the lawyers who will eat you alive for playing at johnny law.
 
Your Concealed Carry Permit is ONLY for carry for personal self defense.
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Technically that is not correct. Your permit only provides that you may carry a concealed weapon in certain places without getting arrested, nothing else. Any self-defense actions are covered under separate laws and would be the same whether you have a permit or not. Having a permit grants you no special self-protection status or any other right other than "permission" to have the gun on you rather than resorting to a knife, brass knuckles or some other type of protection.
 
Some of you guys need to go back and really re read this post -

You people who want to run around making citizen's arrests scare me more than the perps do. Y'all sound like Gomer on Andy Griffith, "Citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest!"

The concept of UNTRAINED private personnel attempting to detain a BG is idiotic at best. The least case scenario is you get yourself shot. The worst case is you get an innocent bystander shot when the BG decides he isn't gonna just lay down and let you arrest him. A lot of people don't have much respect for the uniform/authority of a LEO. How much respect do you think they will show an individual in civilian clothing?

We are NOT trained to act or serve as LEOs. To the poster who said a citizen's arrest is preferable to shooting the guy: If you don't have a 100% valid reason for shooting him, you should have never pulled your weapon.

A CWP is for self protection from an imminent threat ONLY. It doesn't enable or justify the holder to run around acting like some vigilante militia in the old West. Negate the threat, then let the official LEOs take over. Grow up, people, don't play cops and robbers (bang, bang, you're dead) or someone just might be.

Look at this scenario: You come upon someone mugging an old man. You pull your weapon and order him to stop, and you tell him he's under arrest. What's gonna happen? The first thing is he'll look at you, in civilian clothing, and he'll take off running with you chasing him hollering "citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest!" Now that you've made your citizen's arrest move, what'cha now. Keep chasing him? You can't catch him, he's flying like the wind. You CANNOT shoot him. When he's running away from you, there is no imminent threat, and you can't use deadly force to enable a citizen's arrest. You're gonna stand there, out of breath, at a fence he scaled with one jump, and look really DUMB.

What should have happened: Same scenario - "Stop or I'll shoot!" He takes off running. You watch until you are sure he's no longer a threat, then you tend to the old guys injuries and stick around to give a good description to the LEOs.

The alternate way it could go down is you draw down on the guy and he lays down in surrender. Then you hold him for the cops. No citizen's arrest needed.

Or, he could advance on you with a club in his hand and you have to shoot him dead. No citizen's arrest needed there, either.
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The only thing I will say as an LEO is that some of you people in this thread scare the crap out of me with your logic and decision making. If you aren't carefull you are going to end up behind bars yourself.

There is a popular phrase around the CWP crowd that says, "I carry a firearm because I can't carry a cop" well that doesn't mean you suddenly become one either.
Now don't get me wrong. If you are confronted with a deadly threat and you fear for your own life then by all means front site, push, and drop that SOB, but do not let the power of having that gun confuse you into thinking you are now some sort of citizen cop and bullet proof because you aren't.


Something else I want to mention while we are on this subject. If you are ever involved in a shoot/no shoot situation and the Police arrive on scene with you standing over a guy with your gun pointed at him just remember that to us EVERYONE is a threat and a possible bad guy until we can secure the scene and determine what happened. Don't be surprised to have several guns pointed at you if this is the case and you will be treated like an armed suspect until proven otherwise so be prepared.
 
Repeat And Repeat And Repeat:

Your permit only provides that you may carry a concealed weapon in certain places without getting arrested, nothing else. Any self-defense actions are covered under separate laws and would be the same whether you have a permit or not. Having a permit grants you no special self-protection status or any other right other than "permission" to have the gun on you rather than resorting to a knife, brass knuckles or some other type of protection.
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I've posted much the same, and the LEO poster above is posting much of the same, so do others, yet many still don't seem to understand the basic legal premise of the CCW they have in their wallets.

How can this BE?? How can so many be oblivious to the basic purpose of what they must have been licensed to have. It's like having a driver's license and believing you can cite others for traffic violations or transport the ill to emergency rooms with it.

If you don't understand CCW and you didn't have to in order to get it, for the love of heaven go do so now. It is not ethical to carry around a little machine that can kill people by pressing a switch and not understand what you can do with it under CCW Law (JUST CARRY IT) - and what you can't.(EVERYTHING ELSE)

And what you can do under SD Law (WHAT EVERYONE ELSE CAN) and what special powers you have in addition to that (NONE)

Yet these are often the same people who brag about how easy it is to get a CCW in their locale and look down on "tyrannical other states" for requiring some basic knowledge or skills. Well, the perfect argument for continued restrictions on licensing - within the limits of the 2nd A. under the recent SCOTUS ruling - is these woefully oblivious cowboy posts. Yes you do need more restrictions, a primer class in basic CCW and SD Law with a requirement in testing - or some objective evaluation - that this information is actually understood. You live in society with 300,000,000 others, not on a mountain top by yourself.
 
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Your Concealed Carry Permit is ONLY for carry for personal self defense.

PT111 wrote:

Technically that is not correct. Your permit only provides that you may carry a concealed weapon in certain places without getting arrested, nothing else. Any self-defense actions are covered under separate laws and would be the same whether you have a permit or not. Having a permit grants you no special self-protection status or any other right other than "permission" to have the gun on you rather than resorting to a knife, brass knuckles or some other type of protection.
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I said it allows you to CARRY a gun for self defense purposes. I guess I should have emphasized the carry part more for our slower readers? Sorry I assumed people who had them understood what a CARRY permit was. I also assumed everyone knew that a human being HAS THE RIGHT TO PRESERVE THEIR OWN LIFE, and needs no law to tell us so.
 
I also assumed everyone knew that a human being HAS THE RIGHT TO PRESERVE THEIR OWN LIFE, and needs no law to tell us so.
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Exactly and you do not need a gun to do that. People get all hung up on the only protection available is a gun and without one you are doomed. There are many other methods of protection besides a gun. A CCW permit does not say that you can protect yourself and it does not say that you can use a gun to protect yourself. I "allows" you to carry a gun and what you do with it is immaterial to whether or not you have a permit or whether or not you use it to defend yourself. It is not a self-protection permit. You don't need a permit for that as you so bluntly put it.
 
A citizen's arrest is one of those things that 'can' be done, but should be strongly strongly avoided. Sorta like ice skating on a frozen river - it can be legally done in certain areas in early Spring, but I sure wouldn't recommend it. The only citizen's arrest I remember that was appropriate and carried out well - was when a local physician some years ago followed <pre-cell phone era>and stopped an extremely intoxicated individual/driver from getting back in a car. Incidentally, no firearm was used and the physician making the citizen's arrest verbally told the person that he was making a citizen's arrest and persuaded the individual to wait until the police arrived.<in the cell phone era even that would probably not be required these days.>



If there was a situation even where someone demanded or begged me to make a citizen's arrest, I wouldn't do it. I'll call the police. I'll be a good witness and I'll defend myself and others - but when a person injects themself into a situation and starts becoming a 'legal enforcer' rather than a 'personal defender' - the ice gets very thin and things get nasty and start boomeranging. I'd rather explain how I had to defend myself on my own property than how I had to chase after someone and make a citizen's arrest on somebody else's property...;) They're not very fun. There's more pleasant things to do in life. If one needs an adrenalin rush, I'd suggest noodling for catfish or ridin a roller coaster at the amuzement park. :D
 
I said it allows you to CARRY a gun for self defense purposes. I guess I should have emphasized the carry part more for our slower readers? Sorry I assumed people who had them understood what a CARRY permit was. I also assumed everyone knew that a human being HAS THE RIGHT TO PRESERVE THEIR OWN LIFE, and needs no law to tell us so.
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I believe the permit just allows you to legally carry a gun. Full stop. No presumption of *why* you want to carry it.
 
Look nitpickers, we all know that a carry permit is to carry a gun, and gives you no other rights and privleges. We also know what 99.9% of people carry a gun FOR, so why the ball busting? Nothing better to do, or are you lawyers? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

And all this blah, blah, full stop. crap. Do you actually talk like that with your friends, or just trying to look self important on the internet? I vote for the latter.....
 
IN SC the law that allows you to carry a gun with a CCW is called "The Citizens Self Defense Act of 1996." No quibbling there. A citizen's arrest goes back to ye olde English Common Law, and in SC is only good for a felony. That problem is, are you sure it is a felony and are you sure you can handle what may happen when the BG doesn't comply?
 
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