Citizen's arrest - what's the low-down?

All I remember about the citizen's arrest from my criminal law class last year is that you MUST be right. There is no room for "I had a reasonable belief there was a felony in progress" arguments. If your arrest is not totally justified, you are the criminal.

It may vary by state, though, and I am not a lawyer yet.
 
I look at it this way, if the offense is not enough for me to shoot them dead I'm not getting involved. CCWs are pretty much worthless. One small infraction and you are still in hot water.
 
I don't place much trust in LE, 911, etc. I live rurally, but the last time we needed police help (domestic violence) it was in SLC and it took about 25min before they arrived.

BTW I am not about playing sheriff... sheesh! I find it kind of offensive when you jump to such conclusions.
 
I am not sure what the question about citizen's arrest and CWP/CCW/CHL or whaetver has to with each other. A CCW only provides the legality of being able to carry a weapon in places that you could not legally do so before. It does nothing to give you any more rights as far as protecting yourself or making arrests or playing sheriff.

If you thought that by having a CCW would allow you to make arrests, fight crime and play Dirty Harry or Death Wish then you should be very dissappointed and put your gun away. You go to Wal-Mart and stop a robbery in progress by shooting the BG the only difference between having a permit and not having one is with the permit you won't be charged for having a weapon ilegally. The rest of the laws are the same.
 
You people who want to run around making citizen's arrests scare me more than the perps do. Y'all sound like Gomer on Andy Griffith, "Citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest!"

The concept of UNTRAINED private personnel attempting to detain a BG is idiotic at best. The least case scenario is you get yourself shot. The worst case is you get an innocent bystander shot when the BG decides he isn't gonna just lay down and let you arrest him. A lot of people don't have much respect for the uniform/authority of a LEO. How much respect do you think they will show an individual in civilian clothing?

We are NOT trained to act or serve as LEOs. To the poster who said a citizen's arrest is preferable to shooting the guy: If you don't have a 100% valid reason for shooting him, you should have never pulled your weapon.

A CWP is for self protection from an imminent threat ONLY. It doesn't enable or justify the holder to run around acting like some vigilante militia in the old West. Negate the threat, then let the official LEOs take over. Grow up, people, don't play cops and robbers (bang, bang, you're dead) or someone just might be.

Look at this scenario: You come upon someone mugging an old man. You pull your weapon and order him to stop, and you tell him he's under arrest. What's gonna happen? The first thing is he'll look at you, in civilian clothing, and he'll take off running with you chasing him hollering "citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest!" Now that you've made your citizen's arrest move, what'cha now. Keep chasing him? You can't catch him, he's flying like the wind. You CANNOT shoot him. When he's running away from you, there is no imminent threat, and you can't use deadly force to enable a citizen's arrest. You're gonna stand there, out of breath, at a fence he scaled with one jump, and look really DUMB.

What should have happened: Same scenario - "Stop or I'll shoot!" He takes off running. You watch until you are sure he's no longer a threat, then you tend to the old guys injuries and stick around to give a good description to the LEOs.

The alternate way it could go down is you draw down on the guy and he lays down in surrender. Then you hold him for the cops. No citizen's arrest needed.

Or, he could advance on you with a club in his hand and you have to shoot him dead. No citizen's arrest needed there, either.
 
The alternate way it could go down is you draw down on the guy and he lays down in surrender. Then you hold him for the cops. No citizen's arrest needed.
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Your legal analysis is flawed and shallow. This could easily be regarded as a citizen's arrest or, according to the scumbag's attorney, an illegal detention/false arrest or kidnapping. (Kidnapping usually requires asportation- meaning moving the person.)

Your (the whole thread not the poster in particular) knee jerk reaction to citizen's arrest is probablematic in my view. Citizen's arrest should be encouraged. This is exactly what should be happening in our streets, instead of these video beatings with thousands of people walking by and ignoring the situation.

I think everyone is hung up on the thought of walking up and saying "I'm making a citizen's arrest. Stop in the name of the law!" Those words aren't necessary to initiate a citizen's arrest. Holding someone using force or threat of force (implied or not) is probably a citizen's arrest. If it were not, you'd be committing a crime when you do these things.

Yes, carrying a gun for defense and-- God-forbid-- being forced to either use it for defense or to arrest someone does create some legal liability. Better to put on some birkenstocks and walk around unarmed? You make the choice. In my view. CCW laws, Castle doctrines, defense of property, and citizen's arrest laws all go hand in hand in our efforts to take our country back from the criminals coddled by the left and liberal judges.
 
Your (the whole thread not the poster in particular) knee jerk reaction to citizen's arrest is probablematic in my view. Citizen's arrest should be encouraged. This is exactly what should be happening in our streets, instead of these video beatings with thousands of people walking by and ignoring the situation.

I think everyone is hung up on the thought of walking up and saying "I'm making a citizen's arrest. Stop in the name of the law!" Those words aren't necessary to initiate a citizen's arrest. Holding someone using force or threat of force (implied or not) is probably a citizen's arrest. If it were not, you'd be committing a crime when you do these things.

Yes, carrying a gun for defense and-- God-forbid-- being forced to either use it for defense or to arrest someone does create some legal liability. Better to put on some birkenstocks and walk around unarmed? You make the choice. In my view. CCW laws, Castle doctrines, defense of property, and citizen's arrest laws all go hand in hand in our efforts to take our country back from the criminals coddled by the left and liberal judges.
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I disagree with you analysis and though process about citizen's arrest. The average citizen and yes I mean average but that will be covered later can make a citizen's arrest but it would bevery east to screw it up beyond repair. Take the example of pulling gun on a BG and yelling "Stop, you are under arrest". Do you expect the BG to stop and wait patiently until the cops arrive, to hold his hands up or behind his back so the mall ninja can put handcuffs on him. I expect the BG to do exactly what they do when the cops yell stop, to run. What are you going to do if he runs away? If you shoot him you better hope I am not on the jury and I know I will get flamed for that. Let's say you get you ninja handcuffs on him and he runs, what then? As someone else posted this whole thing reeks of Barney Fife.

And to the topic about CCW's. If you are involved in something they are going to ask if you have a CCW to determine if you were legally carrying and that is the end of it. A CCW gives you no more right to claim citizen's arrest, shoot someone or point gun or wave it around than anyone else. People need to learn that by having a ccw and carrying a gun doesn't turn you into a deputy, you remain a private citizen and have less authority than Barney Fife. Go ahead with your citizen's arrenst but you better be right.
 
And to the topic about CCW's. If you are involved in something they are going to ask if you have a CCW to determine if you were legally carrying and that is the end of it. A CCW gives you no more right to claim citizen's arrest, shoot someone or point gun or wave it around than anyone else. People need to learn that by having a ccw and carrying a gun doesn't turn you into a deputy, you remain a private citizen and have less authority than Barney Fife. Go ahead with your citizen's arrenst but you better be right.
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Personally, I don't have to worry about citizen's arrest.

And I'm not going to argue with you about the legalities. You can believe me or not. I've got the JD and years of experience prosecuting and defending criminal case in court prior to entering my current position. I don't know what your experience is.

What I'm telling you is that many scenarios that have been mentioned ARE citizen's arrest, even if you don't yell "I'm making a citizen's arrest."
 
So you are saying that if you have a CCW then you should start running around arresting anyone that you think is breaking the law? Since you evidently are an attorney then can you provide us with your contact information so we can call you when we get arrested for shooting someone in the back while they are trying to escape. Are you going to defend us pro-bono?
 
I was under the impression that you cannot legally detain a threat with a gun; perhaps the exclusion being if a criminal broke into your home.

I'm starting to think my CCW is just about worthless; it only allows me to carry in a way that my 2A rights already guarantee...but I have to submit personal info, take a no-brainer test, and pay $50+ to get my (neutered) guaranteed 2A rights.
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The purpose of your CCW is to protect yourself and your family from death or grave bodily injury.

Your CCW permit does not make you a cop. If you want to arrest people, then join a police force and go to the police academy.
 
No one said anything about CCW or handcuffs. Stop playing the red herring game. Citizen's arrest has nothing to do with handcuffs or saying "Stop in the name of the law" or a CCW. Like I said, many of the scenarios mentioned are in fact arrests, probably legal but arrests never the less. YOU SAID "it could go down is you draw down on the guy and he lays down in surrender. Then you hold him for the cops. No citizen's arrest needed." That is an arrest. Just because you are ignorant of the law doesn't change the application of the law. You see a street urchan beating up an old lady, approach with a baseball bat in your hand and hold him until the police arrive. You have probably arrested him. No CCW, no gun, no handcuffs, no yelling "I'm making a citizen's arrest."

No, I will not send you my contact info. I'm not soliciting ANY clients (not currently in a position that allows private clients) and probably am not licensed in your state anyway. You should seek counsel in your local area.
 
No one said anything about CCW or handcuffs. Stop playing the red herring game. Citizen's arrest has nothing to do with handcuffs or saying "Stop in the name of the law" or a CCW. Like I said, many of the scenarios mentioned are in fact arrests, probably legal but arrests never the less. YOU SAID "it could go down is you draw down on the guy and he lays down in surrender. Then you hold him for the cops. No citizen's arrest needed." That is an arrest. Just because you are ignorant of the law doesn't change the application of the law. You see a street urchan beating up an old lady, approach with a baseball bat in your hand and hold him until the police arrive. You have probably arrested him. No CCW, no gun, no handcuffs, no yelling "I'm making a citizen's arrest."

No, I will not send you my contact info. I'm not soliciting ANY clients (not currently in a position that allows private clients) and probably am not licensed in your state anyway. You should seek counsel in your local area.
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I have looked bac through this thread and don't see where I said, implied or inferred that statement. It was said but not by me that I saw.
 
Citizens Arrest

A couple of weeks ago at our local WAL_MART a person with a CCW THOUGHT he saw a crime being commited. He undertakes to detain the alleged BG. Then he makes a really bad mistake . When the guy begins to resist him, both verbally and physically. He gets scared and tells the guy he is a policeman, he then puts his weapon to the guys head. He is lucky he didn't get disarmed at this point. Makes the guy lay down, and is sitting on him with his weapon still at his head when our guys arrive. He was promptly arrested and charged with WANTON ENDANGERMENT 1st, UNLAWFUL IMPRISONMENT, and IMPERSONATING A POLICE OFFICER. He is looking at a maximum of 10 yrs. in prison. The least that will happen, is he will lose his CCW for life, and a civil lawsuit.
 
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What an F'n power-trippin' idiot!

I'm really suprised to see what this thread turned into...A red herring arguement about Barney.

Unfortunately, we are now at the point in society where people are afraid of the legal repercussions of helping other people, even to the extent of ignoring those getting violently beat.

My course instructor (ex-lawyer) blatantly said "I am a hypocrite; if I see you getting mugged, I'll turn the other way. If I'm getting mugged, then by all means please help!"

I guess people are more afraid of legal injustices than physical ones.
 
My course instructor (ex-lawyer) blatantly said "I am a hypocrite; if I see you getting mugged, I'll turn the other way. If I'm getting mugged, then by all means please help!"
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That is unfortunately what most lawyers will say. The least legal exposure for the client is for him to simply walk away.

I know cops who feel the same way. "Hey, man. I'm off duty. Let the locals or on duty guys deal with it."

PT, sorry for misquoting you. I was confused about who wrote what.

Then he makes a really bad mistake . When the guy begins to resist him, both verbally and physically. He gets scared and tells the guy he is a policeman, he then puts his weapon to the guys head. He is lucky he didn't get disarmed at this point.
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He clearly doesn't need to be carrying.
 
If You Don't Understand what a CCW Is and Isn't, Don't CCW

The purpose of your CCW is to protect yourself and your family from death or grave bodily injury.
Your CCW permit does not make you a cop. If you want to arrest people, then join a police force and go to the police academy.
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Well said. But even that gives a CCW holder some assumption of shooting rights. CCW law only refers to waiver from the Gun Law prohibition against carrying dangerous weapons (if there is one in your state). That's it. It does not bestow any rights or privileges beyond that: including shooting people, or citizen's arrest OR anything else to do with Self-Defense. None of this is mentioned.

As far as Self-Defense: you have the same rights as anyone else - and no other. SD Law doesn't mention guns either, is not about guns, or shooting people either. It's simply not mentioned.Nor is any other tool, method, implement etc. It's not about that. It defines conditions under which a potentially lethal defensive action rises to the level of a Justification for homicide for anyone.

Citizen's Arrest? Same. Whatever the local laws are, they are for anyone, not carriers of guns.

So, you have the right to legally have a certain tool on your person.

And you're just a citizen walking down the street like everybody else.

If you understand that, you are much more likely to do what everyone else does: live your life and if some extremely rare event happens, only defend yourself or anyone else if it is truly the last resort because you are going to die NOW. And you won't likely be running around looking to arrest people, but call the cops : who are completely different in powers and training than you are.
 
A couple of weeks ago at our local WAL_MART a person with a CCW THOUGHT he saw a crime being commited. He undertakes to detain the alleged BG. Then he makes a really bad mistake . When the guy begins to resist him, both verbally and physically. He gets scared and tells the guy he is a policeman, he then puts his weapon to the guys head. He is lucky he didn't get disarmed at this point. Makes the guy lay down, and is sitting on him with his weapon still at his head when our guys arrive. He was promptly arrested and charged with WANTON ENDANGERMENT 1st, UNLAWFUL IMPRISONMENT, and IMPERSONATING A POLICE OFFICER. He is looking at a maximum of 10 yrs. in prison. The least that will happen, is he will lose his CCW for life, and a civil lawsuit.
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Thanks for the vivid example of the perils of intervening in the "defense" of a third party. I'm not saying I would never come to the aid of a third party, but my inclination would be to stay out of it, get to cover, and call 911.

Here's a scenario. You are in the parking lot at the local strip mall, about to get into your car. You see a man burst out the door of a store, running as fast as he can. A couple seconds later, another man bursts out of the store chasing the first man. The second man has a gun in his hand.

What have you just witnessed? A jealous boyfriend chasing a rival? The shop owner chasing a robber? An undercover cop chasing a suspect?
 
All I can say to this thread is be grateful you guys that live in states that are CCW friendly. In California you have to show "good cause". And no "it's my 2dA right" doesn't cut it. You have to show good cause where your life or family has been threatened. Or your job is one where you need it. IE: transporting large amounts of cash or valuables. I pass every requirement on the list that prevents someone from CCW except the "good cause". I thank God I have not had me or my family in the position to show "good cause". I'm sorry about the rant but for someone to say their CCW is just about worthless I wish I had the opportunity to CCW and be in a legal position to carry the tool(s) necessary to defend my life and my family.
 
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