Christianity and Guns

David,

I would have to double check my Hebrew Lexicon to be certain, but I think you are right about the translation. Even from the context we can know that the commandment refers to unjustly taking human life. Ie. Killing was permitted at that time for animal sacrifice, food, animal that took a man's life, warfare, capitol punishment for capitol crimes, and self defense of one's self and family.

I believe that your last statement is also right on target, Dave.
 
I recently attended the funeral of a dear friend in a Catholic church, fully armed in his honor. Although the local priest might have quarrelled with me if he had known, I remember as a child the Knights of Columbus and their swords during Masses.

Bottom line is that the gift of life is precious. If it was not so valuable, then Christ's own sacrifice is devalued. To defend life with the last resort of force is compatible with Christianity.

We own and train with weapons because we value life and not death. None of God's creatures thrive without freedom. Preservation is our choice and our tribute to His gift. Responsibility keeps us close to Him.

Despite obvious differences, no major theology advocates the villification of LIFE. Life is a gift. Life is valuable. Life is worth defending. Life is worth amazing effort, risk and sacrifice. Death is bad, perhaps final.

This love unites us all in arms. Is it God's, or Buddah or Allah or Yahwe or Whomever? It is still love.
 
Ah. I find it ironic when those who proclaim to follow a philosophy are unschooled in its teachings.

(DEUTE 20:10) When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
(DEUTE 20:11) And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open
unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve
thee.
(DEUTE 20:12) And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war
against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
(DEUTE 20:13) And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
...
(DEUTE 20:16) But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
(DEUTE 20:17) But thou shalt utterly destroy them...

From "the man after God's own heart":
(2 SAM 22:33) God is my strength and power...
(2 SAM 22:35) He teacheth my hands to war; so that a bow of steel is broken
by mine arms.
(2 SAM 22:36) Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy
gentleness hath made me great.
(2 SAM 22:37) Thou hast enlarged my steps under me; so that my feet did not slip.
(2 SAM 22:38) I have pursued mine enemies, and destroyed them; and turned
not again until I had consumed them.
(2 SAM 22:39) And I have consumed them, and wounded them, that they could
not arise: yea, they are fallen under my feet.
(2 SAM 22:40) For thou hast girded me with strength to battle: them that
rose up against me hast thou subdued under me.
(2 SAM 22:41) Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies, that I
might destroy them that hate me...
(2 SAM 22:49) And that bringeth me forth from mine enemies: thou also hast lifted me up on high above them that rose up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.
(2 SAM 22:50) Therefore I will give thanks unto thee, O LORD...


And, for those who erroneously delineate between "Old Testament" and "New Testament" teaching (one of the primary arguments given by those unwilling to defend themselves or others):
(HEBRE 13:8) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
(MATTH 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(MATTH 5:18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle* shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


examples of Jesus "the pacifist":

(MATTH 21:12) And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
(MATTH 21:13) And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

(LUKE 11:21) When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace.

(LUKE 22:36) He that hath no sword,
let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Sounds like he was against self-defense, huh?


*jot or Iota, the smallest letter of the Greek alphabet, used metaphorically or proverbially for the smallest thing (Matt. 5:18); or it may be = yod, which is the smallest of the Hebrew letters. from www.dictionary.com - John
 
Thou shalt not kill
Exodus 20:13
kill: Hebrew ratsach: to dash to pieces, put to death, especially murder

From "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance"

------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>One father of 7 brought a rifle into the church (after Sunday morning service) to show someone/show off. Last week his son walked up to my husband with these neat gun cards in hand to discuss. My husband shared some of his knowledge, and the youngster replied even more knowledgeably. [/quote]


Gun cards??? Gun cards???? Pray(no,, well,, maybe a little,,pun intended) tell us more about these! It appears there is yet another drain of funds looming. ;)
 
Walter,

That's a fair question. I don't want to be off topic, so I'll answer it as short as I can. The virgin named Mary had a similar question.

"Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy Thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Luke 1:34, 35

The Holy Spirit performed the miracle by which he added the 23 male chromosomes to Mary's. Since the sin nature is passed on by the man, (Rom. 5:12), there was no original sin passed onto the humanity of Christ. If you need more detail, feel free to email me.
 
This thread has stayed remarkably on topic...its not about justification of Christian tenents or the veracity of validity.

Do not take this as an opportunity to coerce Christians to justify or defend their beliefs. They (Christians) have not prosletysed, they have not intruded upon you.


------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
DC:

I wasn't asking anybody for faith justification, just trying to get a little understanding on an issue with which I've struggled. Typically, just throwing various and sundry Bible quotes doesn't really offer me much of an explanation. Didn't mean to offend anybody.

The interaction between metaphysical beings and humans is not novel with the Christian religion. That concept, as well as the birth, death, and resurrection concept of Christianity was apparent in the ancient Egyptian religion that preceded Christ by a thousand years.

I have vacillated over the years in my understanding of the relationship and quality of Christ's humanity with his metaphysical existence. I guess what we're really talking about is a childlike (and I mean that in a positive sense) leap of blind faith, which many find very difficult.
 
Hey WalterGAII,

You started the same crap over on another forum about Jesus and the Y chromesome and you wound up in the end extending apologies to the whole board,remember what you said,I do! knock off the crap! :mad:
 
While the Catholic Church is very pro-life in all aspects (anti-abortion, anti-death penality, etc.), they recognize that murder is not the same thing as self defense. This is taken directly from the "Official Catechism of the Catholic Church", Part 3, Section II, Chapter 2, Article V, Paragraphs 2264-2265 ...

"Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's. Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the community."

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD.
edfudal.jpg


[This message has been edited by FUD (edited March 08, 2000).]
 
From the length of this thread it sounds like there is a market for a book dedicated to RKBA from the Christian perspective.
 
Exiled: Thanks for the Christian response. The fact that I don't have the same understanding about such matters as you is apparent.
 
Walter...

In the past we have closed posts of a strictly religious nature. As I stated, this thread has stayed on track...it deals with a particular religion's take on guns/self defense, not a primer dealing with the basis of faith or metaphysical existence.
There are numerous Christian sites that can address your question, as well there are folks here who could...by e-mail. Christ's y chromosome has nothing to do with guns or self-defense, nor anything to do with this thread.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Oh, how our "human flesh" gets the best of us sometimes! Exile.... settle down, do a little meditation, repent and come back when you can show a little more compassion and mercy towards those who only need to be enlightened. In fact Walt, you can go to the website I mentioned at the top of this thread (keylife.org)and ask your questions. Steve Brown would be happy to answer your questions.
Now, I like the idea Gunpowder gave for a book on RKBA & Christianity. My husband won't help me do it... how 'bout you Equalizer?!? You seem awfully knowledgeable about scripture. :)
 
Walter,

It would be helpful if you were to add your e-mail address to your profile. These things could be discussed in private.

------------------
John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top