Christianity and Guns

L

Lou

New member
Every morning I listen to a Christian radio station while I work. Today, Steve Brown with Key Life Today, and his Pastor, Pete, answered a few questions listeners had written in. The first one had to do with homosexuality and the church. From the Christian viewpoint, I thought their answer was excellent. It was both Scripturally sound and expressed with love and mercy. BUT then their second question was "What is the Biblical perspective on ownership and using guns?" Pastor Pete's reply was "To keep them clean!" :) Then the two of them discussed the ownership of guns. They touched very lightly on the subject, but it was positive. For those of you interested in listening, go to keylife.org and click on listen to today's broadcast (02/25), this then opens another window and click on play. If you only want to hear the gun question, fast forward to 08:32.
I just thought some of you would like to hear something positive for a change!! ;)


[This message has been edited by Lou (edited February 25, 2000).]
 
Lou,

I can't speak for the whole program, since I only listened to the last 5min., but
its refreshing to here of someone in the Christian media get it right when speaking about guns and proper use of deadly force.
If you were able to attend my church, you'd here truth like that all of the time. I'm extremely fortuneate in that regard.

One thing that I wish pastors would realize is that the right to means of self protection comes from God, not from man. For instance, the Second Article to the Constitution, as others, recognizes the depravity of man and the need to recognize man's right to self defense. It is not an article which "grants" right to keep and bear arms. It legally recognizes a God-given right. I think when this country forgot that and started addressing this issue from other vantage points is where we began losing the war. My signature states WHO gave N.T. mandate for the RKBA.

robert

------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)



[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited February 25, 2000).]
 
I have been very deeply involved in the church. I know at my local church the pastor has more guns than I have. Often times the men of the church get together for skeet shooting and such.

Now without preaching, I hope: my 2 cents worth. God created the family before the Church, and it is said, "that a man(person) that does not provide for his(their) family is worse than an infidel". Widening the understanding of that saying, shouldn't we provide protection for our family as well!

I desire mercy, I trust in God, but when you threaten my life and the life of my family with deadly force I will answer with deadly force and trust God to add to my skill just as he added to David's skill; and if you are not dead before you hit the floor I will show mercy by praying with with you.

DaHaMac
 
Thanks Sgt. K for the website. I was not aware of it. I also appreciate the quoted scripture. I thought I would share this with the group because of the scripture quotes and comments.
I recently got my certificate from the NRA for Pistol training to receive my concealed handgun permit. A client of my commented he was a lawyer and I asked if he was a notary. He was. I needed some paper work to be notarized to be sent to the state for my permit. He said he would be happy to do it for me. I told him what it was for and he said "Oh guns, I don't know if I'll sign that!" He was partly kidding, but there was some truth in it also. He did notarize it, but while I was flipping through the pages and signing we talked about his dislike of guns, the NRA and such. He said he would rather die that kill someone. Now... I realize that is his choice, but personally I find that quite apathetic. I am pretty sure this guy is a Christian just by what he says and how he acts. Yes, I realize that is an oxymoron, a Christian Lawyer, :rolleyes: !
I was similar in my thinking not to long ago. As scripture says... the truth will set you free!So true of life and God's Word!! It wasn't until my husband, Karanas, got involved with gun rights and TFL that I started to understand ALL the dynamics behind the right to own guns and gun laws. Had no idea how bogus these laws are and how full of @%#$$^(cursing in tongues!) these politicians are.
I started thinking about what this guy said about not wanting to kill anyone and that he wouldn't defend himself. I thought, what if family, friends, children were involved. To know if you had had a gun to stop some maniac from shooting not yourself but someone you really cared about or some innocent child being abducted by this guy to do who knows what to.
I guess this is where we come in... besides spreading the Good News of the saving Grace of Jesus Christ, we need to spread the news about protecting our rights, not just religious, but gun ownership. I have a very good dear friend. Married, mother of 3 boys, but I know she has mixed views on guns. They do not have one in the house. I make comments about rights of gun ownership. She knows I am applying for a permit to carry and knows when we travel to conferences and such I carry my gun in the car. There are ALOT of people out there with no opinion at all. It is up to us to start educating those close to us. Kind of like a ripple effect.
So all you Christians out there... while spreading the Gospel, spread some news about protecting themselves, their family and their right to bear arms! Blessings!
 
Funny that this topic turned up when it did...

The leader of my Bible study brought this topic up (Christian self-defense) and we spoke on it for prolly half an hour. While stating that if it was just him and the BG and his life was in danger, he probably would not pull a firearm on the BG, but rather pray/start speaking the Gospel to him. OTOH, if his _family_ was in physical danger, the use of a firearm would be the last resort. I slightly disagreed with him, in that my _own_ self-defense is important as well. :)

As Christians, self-defense is necessary, as stated in Lk. 22:36. The only point that has to be made is that we don't have a vengeful spirit about us when we do it- i.e.- we aren't _chomping_ at the bits to pull out the "gat" on a BG and blow them away, leaving them at the mercy of God. I will use a firearm for my self-defense as the last resort, and I won't take a you-had-it-coming-to-you-punk attitude about it. I only pray that I _don't_ have to. Vengeance is God's property. I don't care to intrude upon that premise. :)

That said, them 'em clean, and stay in the Word and Grace of God. :) :)
 
While the Lord was with the disciples not one of them has need of swords---He was Mr. Defense in Person, although He didn´t mind that some of them were packing. But before He left He commanded them to better have a sword for no other purpose than defense(and not for so called crusades). In those days knives were used mainly as today for utility and swords were the equivalent of our guns with the main purpose being for rightful defense. No one in their right mind went around telling people that they use their swords to clear brush, chop firewood etc. Lastly the Lord would always be for law-abiding christians to always be just that. Thanks and God bless.
 
The church we began attending several months ago fascinates me in this regard. (Remember, hubby and I are fairly new at all this 'gun stuff.')

The pastor runs a hunting camp in Colorado. There's a delight-ful picture in his home of his daughter with the elk she'd bagged-while the daughter is 7 months or so pregnant. Said daughter, her husband and family, and another daughter and her family attend the church. A bunch of hunters.

Another dad is into black-powder rifles and told me a bit about his Hawkins at a potluck recently (I had asked).

One father of 7 brought a rifle into the church (after Sunday morning service) to show someone/show off. Last week his son walked up to my husband with these neat gun cards in hand to discuss. My husband shared some of his knowledge, and the youngster replied even more knowledgeably. With great effort, I refrained from saying, "Be quiet, honey, I'll bet the kid knows more than you do!"

A single guy just got 2 handguns off of layaway and brought them a couple of weeks ago to show.

Last month about 4 families had at least one child taking a hunter safety course.

All this in a church of maybe 15 families.

My husband is trying to figure how to show his Beretta without looking like he's showing off. :)

As the Utah legislature was considering a bill to limit our rights to carry in church, my husband asked our pastor what he thought of a member of his congregation carrying in church. The pastor (who does not own a handgun), said he'd feel safer if one of his people were to carry. (The bill died, thankfully, but a similar initiative is collecting signatures.)

I'm thinking of suggesting the church go to the range for fellowship!! (Especially as this congregation rents the building just for Sunday morning. It really does make a lot of sense.) We do talk about the Lord, we really do! It does seem as though homeschooling and guns are topics also very frequently discussed.

I now think this is neat. I've come a long way, baby! -- Denise
 
Here it is:

"And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand, then I will appoint thee a place whither whither he shall flee" Exodus 21:12

"If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him." Exodus 22:2

Goes on to talk about what happens when the theif isn't killed, etc.

------------------
"Those that give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
 
Thank God for the Christian principles upon which this country was founded, one of which is liberty and means of self defense. When you take the Lord out of the picture, everything falls apart....socially, politically, the family unit and protector of the household, economically, and militarily.
I'm not taking any personal credit as God only knows that I have a long way to go. However, according to Scripture, the reason that this nation has enjoyed the liberty and blessings that it has of the past is because of: a) a relatively large number of believers in general, b) a society at large who regards a semblance of divine establishment principles, and c) a large enough remnant of mature Christians who function as a preservative to this client nation to God. (ie. Doctrine of Salt of the earth )

Each of these three reasons why God blesses this nation are on the decline: a) Very little true gospel witness (ie. I Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:1-4; Rom. 1:16), therefore the percentage of those who are comming to trust Christ as Savior is declining. b) After many generations of corrupt media, corrupt religious, and corrupt educational influences, our culture has rejected in large part the Divinely established principles which are requirements for liberty. c) There is a shrinking remnant of mature believers, possibly Jeshuran too), alive in client nation USA. This may be the last vestige that remains to any consequencial degree.

England lost their status as a client nation to God, and so can we. If that happens, we can kiss most of our guns, liberties, and economic blessings in this country good-bye.

Unbelievers don't realize this, but when the Lord calls us home in the "rapture" (exit resurrection), the Holy Spirit's presence will be gone w/the believers in Christ. At that point in history, the general population will have VERY little time to live, regardless of whether or not they have firearms. There biggest decision, as it is today, will be whether or not they place their confidence in Jesus Christ as their Savior. Many will still think that they can save themselves from the Lake of Fire at death by their own good works; thereby rejecting the Savior.

Nevertheless, He still gives us the mandate to self defense as you'll note in the signature. And the U.N. has the evil audacity to engrave on the front of their bldg. "And they shall turn their swords into plowshares." That's what they would like us to do now. That statement was not written to apply directly to this age. That was written in reference to the Millenial reign of Christ in a future age, after the tribulation. Then and ONLY then will there be peace and no need for weapons of self defense.
Hope this was a help to someone.

robert

------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
 
In our church of about 200, I am clearly the most interested in firearms. We got a new pastor last year and I was very curious as to his stand on firearms. I was nervous about it since he has always lived in a large city, and often in or near less affluent neighborhoods.
We went to lunch and when I brought it up, I found that he didn't really seem to have a strong pro or anti opinion at all. I asked if he would be interested in shooting and he was very enthusiastic about it. He has also asked me to take his whole family, and we also (his idea) discussed the possibility of teaching firearm safety to the churches high school class.

I'm excited about this opportunity and pray that it will lead to a positive attitude towards firearms on his part.
 
Equalizer,
I agree, but I want to add two reasons for our blessings as a nation.
1. We send many missionaries throughout the world preaching the Gospel of Christ.
2. God has used us as His instrument to preserve the nation of Israel.
If we ever cease to do these things we will be judged as we deserve.
I am surprised at how many of us there are here, and blessed to know it.
Regards, Jerry
 
Blue Heeler - Huh?

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
I Timothy 5:8 (KJV)

Two points from this:
1) Defense of others - what more basic provision can one make for their loved ones than survival?
2) Defense of self - aside from life insurance, it's pretty difficult to provide for your loved ones from six feet under...

------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
Interesting thread. I never thought one needed "justification", Biblical or otherwise, for maintaining one's life and well being through self defense. Since I'm not a Christian, I have not had you folks' opportunities to discuss it on that basis. Does anyone know what position other religions (Islam, Judaism, Shinto, etc) take on self-defense?

------------------
Dave
Deep in the Florida Swamps
 
Well, there was a Quaker student in our law school class who said that Quakers could not use lethal force on other humans, even in self-defense.

If true, it must mean that Quakers embrace the mis-translated version of the fourth commandment (you shall not "kill"). I was unable to find another Quaker (despite being at a Quaker school) to confirm this view.

Needless to say, he was not a member of our Second Amendment Society. :)

Justin

------------------
Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
I think you're right about mistranslations, there are a lot of them. I read somewhere that when the 4th is translated from the original Aramaic, without being run through Greek, Latin, and King James, it reads "You shall do no murder." Totally different thing, since self-defense is generally acknowledged as justification for deadly force.

That said, I would no more put a gun in a Quaker's hand and demand that he use it than I would force a ham sandwich down a Rabbi's throat. If that's how the Quaker feels about it, it's his decision and his life. As for me, anyone who breaks into my home and threatens my family gets a .357 lobotomy from Doctor Smith and Doctor Wesson. Regardless of religion, race, gender or national origin, I use equal opportunity hollowpoints.


------------------
Dave
Deep in the Florida Swamps
 
JerryM and Mk86fcc,

Excellent points! Yes, the Abrahamic covenant! I can't forget that one. And the gospel spread abroad.

As for providing for one's house. I think that it is one of the best arguements for unrestricted RKBA. I find that some of the lobbyist groups like to reach the public with the common compromising "pragmatic" approaches. I believe that they would be far more effective reaching the undecided from the Biblical point of view that you put so well from I Tim. 5:8.

Case in point: Immediately following the Columbine shooting, a lawyer representing one of the most popular lobbyist associations sounded appologetic in his "debate" on Nightline against the gun confiscating opposition. He was sooo placable that I wondered who he was working for. He suggested solutions such as enforcing current gun laws AND implimenting reasonable new restrictions (he did not specify). Why in the world did he not say that responsible armed adults in the school could have cut the shooting short IF they were permitted to be armed. Why must it be AGAINST the law to provide protection for the innocent, whether at home or w/in 1000ft. of school property? IMHO, Your perspective on this is far better than that lawyers. jpfo.org/school.htm , jpfo.org/gjack1.htm , and jpfo.org/L-laws.htm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top