Choosing a long range rifle

I own a Serbu 50BFG with a 30 inch barrel. It is a single shot that shoots the 50BMG round. I have taken out to the mile shoots. I have never won (or even did really well) but I feel the rifle is very able to shoot accurately at that range.

The main problem is I don't think I am able to shoot at that range, the rifle is very capable. It could also be my cheep scope (Burris) but I have a feeling that its more my fault than the scope too.
 
I think some people miss the point...If I wanted to hold a .22 rifle up in the air and calculate where it would drop on top of my target's head, I would do that

True or false, connecting with a target at 1000-1500 yards will be just as easy with my .308 setup as it would with say a 338 or 50 or anything else for that matter?
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False, but you already know that.
Higher BC, greater velocity translate to less flight time and less time for external influences to affect bullet flight.

Unquestionably, the faster you can get the bullet to the target with the least amount of wind drift will increase your odds of connecting with the target, right?

The .308 is a great all-around round, but I would not consider it for 1500 yard engagements. I'm sure it would be a challenge to keep even a VLD bullet supersonic at that range, but I haven't run any numbers.
 
tobnpr claims:
Unquestionably, the faster you can get the bullet to the target with the least amount of wind drift will increase your odds of connecting with the target, right?
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Yes, but only up to the point where the rifle's recoil gets unmanagable that it moves the sights off target too far while the bullet's going down the barrel. There's two situations at hand, here.

First, a rifle shot in free recoil like most of the long range benchrest rigs has no real problems with recoil. The flattest shooting wind buckingest bullets have a lot of recoil. These rifles don't touch people while they're recoiling except for their 2-ounce trigger touching only the fore finger of the shooter. But when the rifle moves from it and is not hampered nor altered by the shooter, they'll shoot really tiny groups.

Second, when the rifle's against ones shoulder and it's held in near death grip forces, us humans are not repeatable in doing this. While the sights are perfectly aligned on the target when the firing pin strikes the primer, the subsequent recoil while the bullet goes down the barrel move the rifle around inconsistantly and accuracy suffers. And this is compounded as trigger pull weight goes up. A 4-ounce triggers easier to shoot accurately than a 4-pound one. Few people can operate a 4-pound trigger exactly the same way for each shot.

Then there's the person shooting 155-gr. bullets a .308 Win. with aperture sights on an iron sighted Palma rifle with a 3.5-pound (regulation) trigger kicking the pants off his buddy shooting a .300 Rem. Ultra Mag. pushing out 220 grain bullets under a 20X scope sight cause his buddy can't hold the rifle the same way for each shot nor can he dope the wind correctly through his spotting scope.

There's a lot more to putting your first shot on (a small) target than humongus exterior ballistics. I don't think there's more than 4 or 5 people in the USA that will consistantly put their first shot inside a 10-inch circle at 1000 yards from any rifle and cartridge combination in all atmospheric conditions.
 
Look at the ballistics off the 6.5 and 7mm cartridges.
I would take one of them over 300winmag, the 300wm puts more energy on target but that's it, the smaller faster higher BC bullets tend to do better than 300wm in every aspect.

Remember bullet weight is not what makes a bullet goo in the wind, its the BC, and for BC/weight ratio the 7mms are very hard to beat.
Look at Bergers website and look through the list of Target bullets and you'l find that the 170/180gr 7mm projectiles have better BCs than the 30cals until you get up to around 220gr, you then have to push the bullet as fast as you would've got the 7mms, and you'l find your in 300RUM territory and your looking at huge recoil, huge cost and low barrel life.

I'd stick with 308 out to 1000yrds, past that I'd probably go with a 7mm something, probably 284 Winchester.

Past that 338 Lapua.
50cal is basically useless for what you'd want, extra cost, weight and recoil for what you want.
408 Cheytac and 416 Barrett disappeared about as fast as they arrived, so they aren't that common so are very expensive.
 
Since weight/mass directly contributes to BC, increasing mass increases BC. So weight/mass does directly effect wind performance.

Ex.
Byran Litz said:
The question is, how much velocity can you give up with a higher BC bullet, and still have less lag time? We can get a rough idea about this from looking at Table 1. As a general rule, you can go about 496 fps slower for every +0.100 counts of BC, and match wind deflection. For example, our benchmark 142 gr bullet going 2950 fps (BC = .565) has 70 inches of wind deflection in a 10 mph crosswind at 1000 yards. What speed does a heavier bullet having a BC of 0.5964 need to match the wind drift of the benchmark? Well, thereís 0.031 difference between the BCís, so .31 x 496 fps = 154 fps. So a bullet with a BC of 0.596 only needs to have a muzzle velocity of 2950 fps ñ 154 fps = 2796 fps in order to match the wind deflection of the lighter faster benchmark. This compares well with the 2800 fps in Table 1
The Nature of Scale
Practical Considerations and Decision Making
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Blackops_2 said:
I thought he was wanting to know if he could get started off into LR shooting with the .308 he has..
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If I was a cynical fella, I would say he is trying to get some help rationalizing a reason to buy a nice new expensive Long Range rig. ;)

We still don't know what type of shooting he is wanting to do.
 
trg42wraglefragle suggests:
Look at the ballistics off the 6.5 and 7mm cartridges. I would take one of them over 300winmag, the 300wm puts more energy on target but that's it, the smaller faster higher BC bullets tend to do better than 300wm in every aspect.
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Is there any 6.5mm or 7mm bullet that has a higher peak BC than Sierra's 30 caliber 240-gr. HPMK bullet with .711? Their 142-gr. 6.5mm has a BC of .595. Their 180-gr. 7mm has a BC of .660.
 
Blackops_2 asks me:
Bart, your still referring to offhand right?
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Wrong. But there is more bore axis angular movement in offhand during barrel time than other field shooting positions. It's easy to see how much by just looking at the angle between line of sight and bore axis in a centerfire revolver or both barrels in a 45+ caliber double rifle. 'Tis hard to see that difference in bolt action rifles.

Do you know why two people shooting the same firearm and ammo will have different sight settings to zero at a given range? It ain't 'cause they look through the sights differently; a popular myth.
 
I guess some haven't heard of the New 7mm 195gr Berger bullet yet here a quote

Whew!!! New Berger 7mm 195 gr Hybrid

Quote from Eric Stecker @ Berger

"It has an estimated averaged G1 BC of .794 and a G7 BC of .406. For those who understand such things this bullet has a G7 form factor of .850. For those who don't know what that means it means that this bullet is the slickest (in terms of velocity retention) on the planet.

here some more high BC 7mm bullets

http://www.matrixballistics.com/.284-Caliber-rifle-bullets.html
 
Old Roper, I've not heard of those bullets. But they do have potential.

Problem is, in my opinion, unless their in-flight BC's are determined by time of flight measurements between two points in four or five velocity bands then the same software calculates BC from that data, a valid comparison's impossible. There's a lot of "rubber rulers" out there measuring/calculating BC and I don't think there's an industry standard that every one uses.
 
Your .308 will do 1000-1200 with the right ammo. If you want something a little more flat try any of the 6.5s. If you want to make it easier but more expensive get a .338.
 
Bart B, I'm surprised your questioning the BC on those Berger bullets since you have had chance to ask Eric Stecker from Berger about them.

You are this Bart B

Bart B is offline
Platinum Member
 
Old Roper, I asked Berger some time ago about their BC calculations in detail. They do time ther bullets between points but they never told me what software they use to interpret the numbers. It may well be proprietary and different than what their web site offers free to consumers.

Most interesting is all bullets don't go through the air with the same BC. There's easily a 20% spread (sometimes more) in BC's a bullet has enroute to a 1000 yard target for 3 or 4 velocity bands. Berger lists only 1 BC and their software made availble online allows only one BC to be entered. Sierra Bullets allows for several velocity bands and each band's BC for all their bullets.

Folks can form their own opinions which way is best to accurately determine BC as well as calculate trajectory for establishing bullet drop for getting sight zeros.
 
Bart B, So your saying you never seen the post about the 195gr Berger bullets and your not the Bart B that post on LR hunting site. OK
 
I've seen the 195gr hybrids on the hide, the form factor is ridiculous. As for the credit of BC, i trust Bryan as his calculations, recordings, and results in matches reflect that his findings are accurate. BTW Bryan is Berger's Ballistician that is where they aquire their G7 BCs.
 
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