Choosing a long range rifle

A

Addicted2Shooting

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I've been wanting to get into long distance shooting for some time now. Having said that, I've been in the market for a precision rifle that has the ability to reach out to great distances.

But before we delve into that, here's a little you should know about me.

I'm the kind of person that appreciates a challenge and therefore I've come to be my own worst critic. I've always strived for success and pushed myslef to extremes to master a variety of skills. As the years have passed, my passion for shooting for fun has grown into what some people have referred to as a 'sickness' :p in terms of striving for perfection when I'm shooting.
While my friends simply like to go out and shoot whatever targets we could come up with, I've always been the one trying to take it to the next level; setting up a variety of complex shots that require fine tuned shooting techniques in order to make the shot.

I've been shooting a .22lr since I was 12 years old. My first rifle was a little single shot(open sights) bolt action sears & roebuck that was my grandfathers in his youth. That rifle proved to be a tac driver as I was nailing cans off a fence with open sights at 30 yards within a year. When I turned 14, my father bought me a bolt action marlin that I was able to perfect my skills with over the course of my teenage years. Throughout school, I've incorporated the art of shooting/firearms into various projects and term papers. I was somewhat 'addicted' to wanting to find out all I could about proper technique and practicing all that I could. Once I was able to group

In the past couple years, I have purchased a bolt action savage mk II fluted/heavy barrel 22 mag and also the .17 HMR.

I have become extremely accurate in shooting 100-300yrds, having very nice groups taking into account windage/elevation and studying bullet drop based on a variety of ammunition. I know how important a quality scope is, and its equally important on knowing how to use it.

Additionally, I have purchased a rem 700 sps tactical heavy barrel in .308 and have a really nice millett mil dot scope. I've recently been shooting very nice groups at 300-450 yards at my local range.

I've bought some land out west, where I can easily practice 1000-1500 yrd shots, but need a weapon to make it happen.

At any rate, I'm looking to expand my horizon, and would like to reach out to greater distance with larger calibers and really take my skill to another level.
 
Barrett M99 or Armalite AR 50.... Some will say .338 Lapua but if you have the room to go long I say go big as well! :D
 
What's wrong with you're Remington for long range shooting?

Spend the extra money on ammo down range learning to read and adjust for conditions.

My best 1000 yard score were fired out of a M1A with a 22 inch barrel.
 
When the military folks were testing rifles for their latest sniper weapon, the .300 Win. Mag. shot the most accurate through 1500 yards. But the US Army was addicted to the .338 Lapua Mag and could not reason that its inferior performance meant the snipers who used it were handicapped.

Note that the more recoil a rifle has while the bullet's going down the barrel, the harder it is to shoot accurately. So, I'd suggest using one of the 30 caliber rounds without a belt as belted cases are a nusiance to reload for best accuracy. The .300 RUM and WSM rounds are good enough.

You'll do best by not using actions having a round receiver. Heavy recoiling rifles tend to twist them out of perfect epoxy bedding after a couple hundred shots. Use a receiver with flat sides and bottom; Win. 70's are excellent. However, folks who don't shoot too well may never observe the difference between these two receiver types.
 
1000+

Contact Fred Szablewski of Sabreco, Inc. in Shippack, PA. He makes a rifle that features a Nesika single shot K action with a 6.5mm 30" Krieger 1:8.5" twist four-groove barrel, chambered in 6.5 x 284.

This combination clams great accuracy at 1,000yds plus.
 
I have purchased a rem 700 sps tactical heavy barrel in .308 and have a really nice millett mil dot scope. I've recently been shooting very nice groups at 300-450 yards at my local range.
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Master the 700 at 1k yards before you think about another rifle. Double the yardage you are shooting now more than doubles the challenge.
 
When the military folks were testing rifles for their latest sniper weapon, the .300 Win. Mag. shot the most accurate through 1500 yards. But the US Army was addicted to the .338 Lapua Mag and could not reason that its inferior performance meant the snipers who used it were handicapped.
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The Army is currently in the process of rebarreling all of their 308 sniper rifles to 300 win mag. They toyed with 338 Lapua, but finally did decide on 300 win mag.

The 300 mag is a good round as is the 300 WSM which was recently used to set a new 1000 yard benchrest record. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...oots-2-815-record-at-1000-yards-with-300-wsm/
 
jmr40 says the Army is currently in the process of rebarreling all of their 308 sniper rifles to 300 win mag. Are the existing rifles those with the 700 short action?

Regarding the recent 1K-yard record set with a .300 WSM, 30 caliber big case cartridges have shot that well once in a while since the 1960's. The best of the belted ones (.308 Norma Mag, .30-.338 Win. Mag., .30-.338 Keele Mag.) would shoot somewhere under 7/10ths MOA at 1000 yards in a well built rifle. Long range benchrest rifles these days are no better. Any one of them will, on rare occasions, shoot a 2 inch or so group and set a record that excites everyone. But their accuracy one can count on all the time is about 7/10ths MOA. Check out the aggregate records comprising 15 to 60 shots then note the numbers are just averages of several groups. The largest group fired in the aggregate is larger; how much is rarely published. The six 10-shot group NBRSA 1000-yard aggregate record is over 6 inches; that's the average group size. Those 5-shot 2-inch or so records are more luck that reality.
 
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Here is some Br 1000 yd records

http://www.pa1000yard.com/hof-recs/records.php

If anyone doesn't thing rifles are better today

If you look at the records for heavy rifle you see that small group but go down to 6 match agg which means that shooter average group for 6 target 10 shot groups was just barely over 5" that's total of 60 shots fired. Next go down to 10 match agg 10 targets 10 shot groups average just over 6" for 100 shots fired.

Also look at the dates of those records.
 
I have purchased a rem 700 sps tactical heavy barrel in .308 and have a really nice millett mil dot scope
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Buy a 20 MOA base to put under you Millett, and buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Magpul-Dynami...93C2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334845309&sr=8-1

And start handloading, if you don't already.

Despite what some people claim, a big magnum will be no more accurate at long range than a .308. What it will do is be less effected by the wind.

Reading the wind is really all that matters in long range shooting, and all the big magnums or hot 6.5mm rounds will do for you is be a little more forgiving when you mess up your wind calls.

For example, when you call the wind is 60º at 8mph, but it is really 90º at 12, how bad do you miss? I worked this up for another discussion, a while back:

At 500 yards with a 6.5-06 (140 SMK @ 2923fps) you are off by 1.5 MOA, which is just under 8 inches. A couple of extreme examples for comparison (which I have wind dope sheets worked up for) are the 30-06 150 FMJ, and .223 55gr FMJ. For the same error, the .30-06 will be off by 2.3 MOA (about a foot) and the .223 will be off by 3.1 MOA (~16").

The .300 mag is comparable to the 6.5-06 in the wind, close enough that the comparison still stands. Naturally the error is higher the farther out you go.

In other words, if you want to really learn to read the wind at long range, shoot the rifle you already have. It will be more obvious when you get the wind call wrong or right. As a beginner, it will be the former more than the latter.
 
You have a .308 that will get you out to 800 yds, a thousand if you are really good and know what you are doing. I personally like my savage 110 that I modified with a kreiger barrel and a manners stock. It is a 30-06 and will shoot any caliber your .308 shoots further and can maintain supersonic velocities to 1200 yds. I do not know why people gave up on the 30-06 for the 308. The only other caliber that can out perform the 30-06 are magnums at a higher cost to shoot.
 
You have a .308 that will get you out to 800 yds, a thousand if you are really good and know what you are doing.
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Nonsense. A .308 can go out to 1000 easily, a mile if you know what you are doing.

The only other caliber that can out perform the 30-06 are magnums at a higher cost to shoot.
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Or pretty much any 6.5.

Again, all that matters is reading the wind. You will learn to read the wind faster with a .308 than any of the hot 6.5s or big boomers, because the bullet performance won't compensate for screwed up wind calls.
 
I figured there would be some people recommending I stretch the rem 700 out to those greater lengths so I actually proactively put a 20moa base under my millet-mildot scope and intend to work on even greater distances with this setup. Keep in mind this rifle has the 20" heavy barrel, so its a little shorter than most of your other remington 700s. I feel that I can probably do some good up to 600-800 yards with this setup...but I don't really want to be trying to hold over a bunch when I'm working on 1000+ yard shots.

I've already started getting stuff together for doing my own .308 reloads as precision loads will definitely play a huge role at those greater distances.

Nonetheless, I don't want to be restricted by my rifle, or have to be compensating more than necessary for the point of use. (i.e. I'm not going to be shooting 350 yards with a .22lr and trying to calculate for the adjustments)
 
While getting your 308 supplies, let me recommend the 175 grain Sierra Match King bullets. I've had very good success with them at long range and they are the current bullet issued in the M118LR load that is a proven performer at 1,000 yards. While I haven't used the Hornady or Nozler bullets of this weight, I'm sure that they perform well too. The previous go to bullet, the 168 grain MK, went subsonic in the 308 at about 800 yards in normal atmospheric conditions and thus the above mentioned 800 yard efficiency posts.

For powder and primers, I've used a lot of IMR and H 4895 powder as well as Varget. A lot of the mid range burning powders will work well with the 308, so many others will have a different opinion on this subject. My primers for long range shooting are the Federal large rifle match primers. I've used every brand of case from Lake City army brass to Federal and Winchester for my long range loads. I guess Winchester cases are my case of choice and I generally only neck size them in a collet type (Redding) neck size die.

I too am a big fan of the 30/06 for just about everthing from hunting, cast bullet shooting to long range matches. It will push a 190 grain MK bullet out to 1,000 yards most convincingly. Its performance is measurably better than the 308 at long range and its bore life is similar to the 308. The big magnums can burn the throat out of a barrel fairly fast.

Trajectory, once zeroed is fairly constant other than temperature and head/tail wind consideratinos, but deflection due to wind is dynamic and changes from shot to shot, especially out west where your property is. Make sure your scope or sight has good repeatable adjustments as well as good optics. If you have a mil dot reticle, you can use that for windage hold off.

One of my long range rifles made on a Pre-64 Winchester action in 308. It normally wears a Redfield International aperture rear sight and a Redfield HP front sight.

M70.jpg
 
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Scharfschuetzer says:
I too am a big fan of the 30/06. It will push a 190 grain bullet out to 1,000 yards most convincingly. Its performance is measurably better than the 308 at long range, but its bore life is similar to the 308.
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Measureably better? If so, then why did all the top classified competitors quit using it back in the mid 1960's for Palma matches? Even when both it and the .308 Win. were allowed, it never placed well in competition.
 
I'm not sure why and shooting in only a few Palma Matches (won one of 'em) I used the 308. Your question/statement presupposes that the OP is limited to a 155 grain bullet. In that case, perhaps the 308 is the equal or better than the 30/06. Lord knows that I've seen some pretty impressive scores with the 308 and the Sierra 155 grain Palma bullet.

As the OP is not confined to a 155 grain bullet by Palma matche rules, he can choose any bullet weight he wants. With rifles of equal accuracy, the 190 grain bullet from the Ought Six at the same velocity as the 175 grain bullet from the 308 will give you better performance at long range. In my experience it gets through the wind better than the lighter bullet at similar velocity in the 308 and for me, that is measurably better. The Ought Six, with its greater case capacity seems to handle heavier bullets better than the 308.

My loading log shows a velocity of the 190 grain bullet in my Winchester match rifle in 30/06 at just over 2700 fps and average 10 shot groups of .62." My loads for the same bullet out of my Remington match rifle in 308 show a 200 fps drop in velocity for the same bullet with about equal accuracy. Rifles vary, but this is my experience.

Now, with all that said, the 308 is still a great cartrige, particularly with the 175 grain MK bullet at around 2650 to 2700 fps, and the OP will be well served by it in his quest for long range accuracy.
 
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Yes, ballistic tables and data show the .30-06's higher muzzle velocity for a given barrel length, peak pressure and bullet give it the wind-bucking and flat trajectory advantage. But the .308 Win. shot 40% more accurate and was the reason why high power target scoring rings got reduced in size back in 1966 for those used through 600 yards and 1973 for the 800 to 1000 yard targets.

The most accurate .30-06 match rifles used in 1966 would hold about 5 to 6 inches at 600 yards. Along comes the .308 shooting 3 to 4 inches at 600 with the same quality rifles, barrels and components which include all bullet weights; even 250-gr. bullets from a .308. Go figure out why a cartridge that's 40% more accurate but deflects 10% more for a given wind will shoot a smaller group on a target from a shoulder fired rifle.
 
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