Aguila Blanca
Staff
I've said that he lied, but the more I think about it ... did he? What question on the 4473 should he have answered "Yes" to?Psychedelic Bang said:I think its important to point out that he, "dishonestly," manipulated the NICS check. Yes, the NICS system passed him, but he failed to fill out the paperwork honestly
https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download
It doesn't really mean the military had to report the convictions. He lied filling out the paperwork. He didn't, "pass the background check," he beat the background check.
To answer this, we have to look beyond the questions themselves, and go to the instructions. Under the instructions for question 11.b we find the following:
Question 11.b - 12. Generally, 18 U.S.C. 922(g) prohibits the shipment, transportation, receipt, or possession in or affecting interstate commerce of a firearm by one who: has been convicted of a felony in any Federal, State or local court, or any other crime, punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year (this does not include State misdemeanors punishable my imprisonment of two years or less); is a fugitive from justice; is an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled sustance; has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution; has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; is subject to certain restraining orders; convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domenstic violence under Federal, State or Tribal law; has renounced his or her U.S. citizenship; is an alien illegally in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa. Furthermore, section 922 prohibits the shipment, transportation, or receipt in or affecting interstate commerce of a firearm by one who is under indictment or information for a felony in any Federal, State or local court or any other crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year. An information is a formal accusation of a crime verified by a prosecutor.
A member of the Armed Forces must answer "yes" to 11.b or 11.c if charged with an offense that was either referred to a General Court Martial, or at which the member was convicted. Discharged "under dishonorable conditions" means separation from the Armed Forces resulting from a dishonorable discharge or dismissal adjudged by a General Court-Martial. That term does not include any other discharge or separation from the Armed Forces.
So ... first, we know that the shooter was court-martialed. But do we know what type of court-martial he received? There are three types of court-martial: Summary, Special, and General. The instructions for the 4473 require a serviceperson to answer "yes" only if referred to or convicted by a General Court-Martial. we need to determine what type of court-martial he was tired under before we can determine whether or not this part required him to answer "yes."
Next, was his discharge "under dishonorable conditions"? The original court-martial sentenced him to a dishonorable discharge. On appeal, that was reduced to a bad conduct discharge. So we need to find out whether or not a bad conduct discharge is a discharge under dishonorable conditions. The United States has a metric boatload of types of discharge:
- Entry level separation
- Honorable
- General
- Other than Honorable (OTH)
- Clemency
- Bad Conduct
- Dishonorable
According to Wikipedia, only a dishonorable discharge is a bar to firearms possession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge
According to the Social Security Administration ( https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.09/handbook-0956.html ), a bad conduct discharge is under dishonorable conditions if imposed by a general court martial.
Consequently, as much as I want to continue saying that he lied, that he was (or should have been) a prohibited person, and that he "beat" the system ... without more definitive information I'm just not certain. It appears that he bought four firearms over a period of four years, two in Colorado and two in Texas. If I had any faith in the system, I would think that at least one of the four background checks would have turned up a hit if he was supposed to be prohibited.
I need more information on the nature of his court martial.