CHL Stops Church Shooting

It's not a sin to carry, in church.

Unfortunately, because he left his pistol in the car during services,
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This question has come up before and personally cannot understand why one would not carry in a church. Is there a feeling that doing so, would be a sacrilege? I know a couple of ministers and other designated "trained" parishioners, who have started carrying in their churches. We have a natural God given right to carry, even in church. ...... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
Does anyone know if (1) the shooter obtained the gun legally, and (2) if churches are gun-free zones in Tennessee? Or if that particular church had declared itself to be gun-free?

I'll also stay tuned for indications that the shooting was related to Islamist terrorism. The shooter's country of original raises the possibility.
 
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Our church has identified certain "shooters" just in case. Individuals who are retired agents/cops who are expected to not only carry but deal with an incident. Have don a full vulnerability/risk assessment with response plan. Sad state of affairs, but Christians seem to be open season.
 
In not being a Church goer, I would not have been in that position. But CCW is just that, concealed. No one that I have ever met knows when they will need a legally owned, and carried handgun.
So I carry everywhere there are no metal detectors.

On our yearly visit to Sacramento, visiting two munchkins, girl 5 boy 4! Oh and their parents! I have a lock blade, razor sharp folding knife, left there, and my City stick.
Best you can do in that crap hole State.

The one and only overriding condition, in this Church shooting, not skin colour, origin, or affiliation, ISIS Etc. Their mental condition, they are all nuts!

How do you screen for that? If they are not running around frothing at the mouth, etc? My simple solution, after seeing many hundreds of these incidents, over a long lifetime. Always carry. A Glock 19 is not an Insurance policy, but it sure feels nice.
 
Unfortunately, because he left his pistol in the car during services, he had to do it the hard way by wrestling with the shooter for his gun. He definitely kept his mindset though!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...le-church.html
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So what you are saying is that a perfectly unarmed person stopped a church shooting? Sort of like a perfectly unarmed non-CHL teacher stopped a school shooting? Mindset has nothing to do with being armed.

A surprisingly large number of shootings are stopped by people NOT armed with guns. This is particularly true in GFZs such as schools, but also happens in non-GFZs as well.
 
I'll also stay tuned for indications that the shooting was related to Islamist terrorism. The shooter's country of original raises the possibility
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For what its worth coming from the news cycle this morning.They stated that the shooter attended services at the church for some time and then just stopped coming to services until the shooting. No mention of terrorism just the country he came from. They did state he is here legally.
 
DNS, I didn't understand your point; but I am saying he showed great mindset and a determination to prevail despite being unarmed. I thought this was a great example of the importance of mindset.

And while I don't have a crystal ball, I bet he wishes he had that gun at his side instead of in his car when it happened as it might have reduced the number of people shot and saved the CHL a pistol-whipping. Although it is certainly true that there are still many places you can't carry legally. I know as a lawyer I sometimes don't even carry where I can legally carry because the combination of discrete business wear carry and having to disarm every time I go to the courthouse makes the process such a pain.
 
A no-brainer

For starters, it isn't legal in some places.
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"Some Places"
Well, that's a no-brainer, but do you personally know if it's illegal in this church or any other church? I'm sure there are some churches that would not allow carrying but that is speculation on my part. I would contend that most churches do not take a stand either way. We have five churches in our town and none are posted. We have three bars two of which are posted and no one pays any attention. But that is not my point. ..... :rolleyes:

I ask; If you can legally carry, in your town why would "You" excluded places of worship? Again, I know a couple of ministers that do and lately you are seeing more and more of this. ..... :rolleyes:

I am also aware that some lawyers and judges carry as well. ..... :)

Be Safe !!!
 
According to handgunlaw.us, it is legal to carry in a Tennessee church. The only exception being if the church is also used as a school, and then only during hours the school is in session. I.e. on Sunday morning, guns are legal.

Apparently, no one was carrying yesterday when the violence started.
 
In Washington, I believe, it is only legal to carry in a church or temple with the permission of the pastor. Sometimes the pastor is overruled by church leadership.
I always encouraged those who could to carry in my services. I carried and I knew I could use the help.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
DNS, I didn't understand your point; but I am saying he showed great mindset and a determination to prevail despite being unarmed. I thought this was a great example of the importance of mindset.
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I give full credit to the usher, Mr. Engle, for having been brave enough to take on the shooter. That said, I think in the end what saved the situation was either dumb luck, or God's intervention. The shooter was a body builder. Have you seen photos of Mr. Engle? He can't weight more than 150 pounds, soaking wet. Even without the shooter's gun, there was a tremendous disparity of force. The physical struggle apparently ended when the shooter's gun went off, striking him. (One report I saw said in the leg, another said in the face.) So, basically, Engle was lucky enough to have caused the shooter to shoot himself. That's what gave him time to go to his car and retrieve his handgun.

I don't think counting on luck is a sound strategy for future planning.

And while I don't have a crystal ball, I bet he wishes he had that gun at his side instead of in his car when it happened as it might have reduced the number of people shot and saved the CHL a pistol-whipping. Although it is certainly true that there are still many places you can't carry legally.
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Agreed completely. A self-defense gun is useless if you don't have it when you need to defend yourself.

I found that Tennessee law doesn't prohibit carry in churches, but I haven't seen anything regarding whether or not that particular church did or did not allow carry.
 
DNS, I didn't understand your point; but I am saying he showed great mindset and a determination to prevail despite being unarmed. I thought this was a great example of the importance of mindset.
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My point was the fact that the CHL aspect was played up by your thread title and was really irrelevant. It didn't matter if he had a CHL or CDL. Mindset is NOT directly correlated in any way with having a CHL. Lots of people have CHLs and have crap for mindsets in this sort of situation. Lots of people don't have CHLs and do have the mind set to perform like heroes in these situations.

So I don't understand your point for pointing out that the guy had a CHL. You would think that if he fully had the mindset, he would have been armed at the time. It is not illegal in Tennessee churches to carry. Looking online at images of Burnette Chapel Church where the shooting occurred, there is no indication of the church being posted against concealed carry. So the fact that he "unfortunately" left his gun in the car speaks a lot about a significant flaw in mindset as a CHL person, don't you think?
 
Well, I thought the fact he was licensed to carry a pistol and had one in his vehicle nearby was not only relevant but an important lesson for people to consider since I as I said, there are times I don't go armed even when I have a legal right to do so.

I wasn't implying there was any connection between CHL and mindset. I was just noting you need some courage and determination to go hand to hand with a giant armed bodybuilder and prevail. And while perhaps being better prepared would have been ideal, the mental aggresiveness he showed was what made the real difference.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Well, I thought the fact he was licensed to carry a pistol and had one in his vehicle nearby was not only relevant but an important lesson for people to consider since I as I said, there are times I don't go armed even when I have a legal right to do so.
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I have to agree that the thread title is misleading.

I wasn't implying there was any connection between CHL and mindset. I was just noting you need some courage and determination to go hand to hand with a giant armed bodybuilder and prevail. And while perhaps being better prepared would have been ideal, the mental aggresiveness he showed was what made the real difference.
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While giving the usher, Engle, full credit for bravery and aggressiveness, that wasn't the major factor. What saved the day was luck. Counting on a bigger, stronger, armed adversary to accidentally shoot himself in the face is not a reliable tactic. Engle is extremely fortunate that he only got pistol whipped, rather than shot.

Which certainly argues the point that if you can carry, you should carry. Suzanna Hupp has been arguing that point for what, 20 years?
 
Well, luck sure didn't hurt; but without a willingness on Engle's part to say "I am going to take on that body builder with a handgun with my bare hands.", a lot more luck would have been needed.
 
I remember another CHL holder that left her gun in the car going to eat in a restaurant.....

Luby's cafe in Texas
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She wasn't a CHL holder. Texas did not have CHL at the time. She would have been an illegal gun carrier under Texas law at the time.
 
How can the government make laws like this that have anything to do with who carries inside of a church? Mostly private property and tax exempt.
 
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