Chambered round or not when carrying?
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Crankylove
New member
Why would you not carry a round in the chamber?
An unloaded gun is good for nothing.......if I ever need to unholster my firearm in an emergency, I am going to need it NOW.............probably not going to have the time to load it first if the situation is enough of a threat for me to need my concealed pistol.
My Hi-Power and 1911's go cocked-n-locked, revolvers get a full cylinder, always.
An unloaded gun is good for nothing.......if I ever need to unholster my firearm in an emergency, I am going to need it NOW.............probably not going to have the time to load it first if the situation is enough of a threat for me to need my concealed pistol.
My Hi-Power and 1911's go cocked-n-locked, revolvers get a full cylinder, always.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
*sigh* Yes, always chambered and locked and loaded.
No evil shall let you chamber a round. Nor time, Nor asking permission will permit you to chamber a round.
I've had several occasions where had I NOT been locked and loaded me racking the slide, the sound alone would have had a different outcome.
Chamber it. Always...My 1911 condition 1 Even..The revolver is basically always chambered.
No other way in this day and age.
No evil shall let you chamber a round. Nor time, Nor asking permission will permit you to chamber a round.
I've had several occasions where had I NOT been locked and loaded me racking the slide, the sound alone would have had a different outcome.
Chamber it. Always...My 1911 condition 1 Even..The revolver is basically always chambered.
No other way in this day and age.
orionengnr
New member
There, fixed it for you...
The value of the search function is only realized if it is used.
Stevie-Ray
New member
1911, condition one, always
Depends on your and your gun. Chamber empty will double your time, probably up to two seconds. But if you choose to carry one of those old designs, the kind without the double action first shot, make sure you have the thumb safety on both sides because you may not have your shooting hand free when you need it. Practice all your shooting one handed because, if what people here say is true, you may only have one hand available.
Above all, you have to work our your own solution to your own problems. If you're not smart enough to do that, then leave your gun at home, son.
Above all, you have to work our your own solution to your own problems. If you're not smart enough to do that, then leave your gun at home, son.
Do you think that cops or other armed professionals(military excepted) carry with an empty chamber?
To my knowledge, there is NOT any reputable training doctrine that teaches or advocates defensive carry of a handgun with an empty chamber. Any shooting drill you do from the holster starts with a locked and loaded gun. Any gunfight you find yourself in had better start with a locked and loaded gun or you'll lose.
If you are that uncomfortable with the idea, the only way you'll overcome it is through a defensive/CC training class.
To my knowledge, there is NOT any reputable training doctrine that teaches or advocates defensive carry of a handgun with an empty chamber. Any shooting drill you do from the holster starts with a locked and loaded gun. Any gunfight you find yourself in had better start with a locked and loaded gun or you'll lose.
If you are that uncomfortable with the idea, the only way you'll overcome it is through a defensive/CC training class.
Yes, round chambered, cocked and locked.
First, a handgun in a properly designed holster is "safe". (A holster which retains the handgun even when you do a backwards somersault, and covers the trigger guard area.)
Second, when you need your handgun, you need it NOW. You are out of time, and out of other options.
Therefore, having the handgun in a condition that is not ready for defensive action right now is a bad thing.
I consider a defensive situation one where you are reacting to some external stimulus that has you decide that going to condition "red" is needed, and the deployment of your handgun is also needed (right now).
sight on, this question does not seem like one that would be asked by someone who's familiar with the operation of firearms (as you say you are). I seems like a novice question. But, you are right, that is no excuse to belittle or speak to you in a disrespectful way.
So here's my two cents worth.
Always carry a round in the chamber. Anyone who's been around semi autos long enough understands that the most likely time for a malfunction (ie-jam) to occur is when you're loading your gun and chambering the first round.
Even some otherwise very reliable semi auto will sometimes hiccup while manually cycling that first round into the chamber. You don't want that prospect looming over you when you're suddenly faces with a self-defense situation. And even if the first round chambers properly, you'll still be very slow in bringing the weapon into action.
It's very simple 1. Keep your finger off the trigger, and do not anyone else handle your gun while it's loaded. 2. While carrying your gun, keep it in the holster, trigger covered.
I'm assuming that your gun will be a modern, well designed one. And if it is, the gun will not fire on it's own.
So here's my two cents worth.
Always carry a round in the chamber. Anyone who's been around semi autos long enough understands that the most likely time for a malfunction (ie-jam) to occur is when you're loading your gun and chambering the first round.
Even some otherwise very reliable semi auto will sometimes hiccup while manually cycling that first round into the chamber. You don't want that prospect looming over you when you're suddenly faces with a self-defense situation. And even if the first round chambers properly, you'll still be very slow in bringing the weapon into action.
It's very simple 1. Keep your finger off the trigger, and do not anyone else handle your gun while it's loaded. 2. While carrying your gun, keep it in the holster, trigger covered.
I'm assuming that your gun will be a modern, well designed one. And if it is, the gun will not fire on it's own.
Catfishman
New member
This seems to be almost everyone's opinion. It seems like an extreme overstatement to me. Makes me wonder why so many well informed gun owners feel this way. Not that they carry with a chambered round, but that they think it is stupid or crazy not to.
I doubt most real world gunfights resemble the beginning of "Gunsmoke". If someone has a gun aimed at you I doubt you should draw yours. If they don't the 1/2 second it takes to rack a slide probably won't matter much. There are exceptions but they would be just that, exceptions.
I personally never carry or store a gun with a round in the chamber. The reasons are simple. About 5% of it is that I might make a stupid mistake, the other 95% of it what others might do with it. There are short periods of time that my gun is neither on my side or in my safe. I expect that is pretty normal.
I simply believe that carrying or storing a gun with a loaded chamber is more likely to lead to harm than good. I don't have time to write a research paper on it but I would be willing to bet that there are real world statistics that would back me up.
Cheapshooter
New member
Not stupid or crazy, just ill prepared. Your opinion is in a vast minority. For good reason. Do your study, and see how many LEOs carry without one in the chamber.
If you are going to carry a concealed firearm you must have the training, experience, and confidence that you can do so safely. With a round in the chamber. Slide racking makes for great Hollywood drama. But does little for self defense. Storing of guns. certainly unloaded. CCW or HD it has to be ready. Of course in the house consideration must be given to the possibility of children getting to it, so there are exceptions, and precautions.
FreakGasolineFight
New member
Round chambered, decocked. CZ P-01.
There are definitely guns that I wouldn't carry chambered, and I don't think that necessarily makes your gun useless. But I carry my own with one in the pipe and 14 more waiting.
There are definitely guns that I wouldn't carry chambered, and I don't think that necessarily makes your gun useless. But I carry my own with one in the pipe and 14 more waiting.
Quoting:
I'm a Ruger fan and carry a transfer-bar-equipped wheelgun, but I fully respect the S&W post-WW2 hammer-block safeties, and the hammer-block safeties used in more or less all Colt DA wheelguns with a swing-out cylinder going back to at least the WW1 era. So no, transfer bars are not the only safe way of getting fully-loaded safe carry in a revolver...the best hammer blocks are 99.99% as good.
S&W pre-WW2 hammer blocks are...flawed. Not THAT bad but...I would not recommend them for street carry and if I had to anyways, it would be hammer-on-empty (reducing ammo capacity by one).
On semi-autos: there are some semi-autos of such low quality that I would be forced to carry one chamber-empty if that was (God forbid) all I had available. Examples include horrible pot-metal stuff like a Davis or Lorcin that I otherwise wouldn't be caught dead with unless I had no choice at all, some older model small autos, some others on a case by case basis.
On a Series 70 or prior 1911 I would carry chamber loaded, but the moment I could I'd score a titanium firing pin. Less mass for that extremely rare case where it drops nose-first and the un-blocked steel firing pin might have enough momentum on it's own to crank a round off. The TI firing pins reduce the available inertia on the firing pin. The hammer itself is well and truly locked back even when carried cocked'n'locked and the thumb safety slips off, so that's not the issue. (The "Series 80" action freezes the firing pin itself from forward motion; I consider the older action with a TI pin 99.98% as safe as a "Series 80".) Then again the 1911 doesn't really fit my hands for some reason, nothing to do with safety.
But anyways...this is what I mean: this question should not ever be asked as a "general rule of thumb" thing - it's on a case by case basis, according to the gun, in which case you have to know your gun inside and out.
The way the question was phrased, the person asking it didn't appear to want to learn the specifics of an individual gun type. That's the only reason you'd phrase the question (or...well, for that matter, answer it!) that way. And I'm sorry, but I disagree with any such apparent desire not to know how your gun works. I'm sorry if I came across as too strong but...the idea that one can have a gun and rely on it without knowing how it works...well...yeah, sorry, I have to call that a Bad Idea[tm].
I can cite a lot of cases in support of knowing how your gun works.
We had a shooting what...a year or two ago, in Richmond Va, corner grocery store, lunatic with a modern DA wheelgun versus local "character" but good guy armed with an Italian replica 1875 Remington, 45LC, 7.5" barrel, open-carry classic western holster
. Goblin walks in, shoots the store clerk twice without warning (minor wounds thank God), points his gun next at a 10yr-old kid's head, guy open-carrying the Remmie gets it into action and hits with the first shot. "Cowboy" ammo, doesn't do enough damage. Guy with the Remmie dives for cover behind a large ice chest/bucket thing, on hitting the ground he screws up the Remmie's trigger. Ooops. Never did find out for sure what broke but I suspect a bent brass triggerguard as is common on that model. But he knew his gun, knew that it would still fire slip-hammering with the thumb, fired three more times hitting with two for three hits out of four shots (damned good for three out of four shots fired with a broken gun!), nobody else hurt, goblin died. Outcome was about as good as it could get - because the guy knew his gun's quirks. Weird carry choice, low-grade ammo, low rate of fire, didn't matter. (Oh yeah: no safety, so it was loaded five-up, and he finished the fight with one round held in reserve and unfired once the goblin ran his gun dry.)
Know. Your. Gun.
Seriously.
(Sidenote: this is even more important if the gun has been individually modified, such as the aforementioned TI firing pin in a classic 1911 pattern. If you bought it used, was it modded? If you don't know the answer to that question, ya oughta find out, right? Start by taking it totally apart, check everything, function-test it, test-fire it, etc.)
I'm a Ruger fan and carry a transfer-bar-equipped wheelgun, but I fully respect the S&W post-WW2 hammer-block safeties, and the hammer-block safeties used in more or less all Colt DA wheelguns with a swing-out cylinder going back to at least the WW1 era. So no, transfer bars are not the only safe way of getting fully-loaded safe carry in a revolver...the best hammer blocks are 99.99% as good.
S&W pre-WW2 hammer blocks are...flawed. Not THAT bad but...I would not recommend them for street carry and if I had to anyways, it would be hammer-on-empty (reducing ammo capacity by one).
On semi-autos: there are some semi-autos of such low quality that I would be forced to carry one chamber-empty if that was (God forbid) all I had available. Examples include horrible pot-metal stuff like a Davis or Lorcin that I otherwise wouldn't be caught dead with unless I had no choice at all, some older model small autos, some others on a case by case basis.
On a Series 70 or prior 1911 I would carry chamber loaded, but the moment I could I'd score a titanium firing pin. Less mass for that extremely rare case where it drops nose-first and the un-blocked steel firing pin might have enough momentum on it's own to crank a round off. The TI firing pins reduce the available inertia on the firing pin. The hammer itself is well and truly locked back even when carried cocked'n'locked and the thumb safety slips off, so that's not the issue. (The "Series 80" action freezes the firing pin itself from forward motion; I consider the older action with a TI pin 99.98% as safe as a "Series 80".) Then again the 1911 doesn't really fit my hands for some reason, nothing to do with safety.
But anyways...this is what I mean: this question should not ever be asked as a "general rule of thumb" thing - it's on a case by case basis, according to the gun, in which case you have to know your gun inside and out.
The way the question was phrased, the person asking it didn't appear to want to learn the specifics of an individual gun type. That's the only reason you'd phrase the question (or...well, for that matter, answer it!) that way. And I'm sorry, but I disagree with any such apparent desire not to know how your gun works. I'm sorry if I came across as too strong but...the idea that one can have a gun and rely on it without knowing how it works...well...yeah, sorry, I have to call that a Bad Idea[tm].
I can cite a lot of cases in support of knowing how your gun works.
We had a shooting what...a year or two ago, in Richmond Va, corner grocery store, lunatic with a modern DA wheelgun versus local "character" but good guy armed with an Italian replica 1875 Remington, 45LC, 7.5" barrel, open-carry classic western holster
. Goblin walks in, shoots the store clerk twice without warning (minor wounds thank God), points his gun next at a 10yr-old kid's head, guy open-carrying the Remmie gets it into action and hits with the first shot. "Cowboy" ammo, doesn't do enough damage. Guy with the Remmie dives for cover behind a large ice chest/bucket thing, on hitting the ground he screws up the Remmie's trigger. Ooops. Never did find out for sure what broke but I suspect a bent brass triggerguard as is common on that model. But he knew his gun, knew that it would still fire slip-hammering with the thumb, fired three more times hitting with two for three hits out of four shots (damned good for three out of four shots fired with a broken gun!), nobody else hurt, goblin died. Outcome was about as good as it could get - because the guy knew his gun's quirks. Weird carry choice, low-grade ammo, low rate of fire, didn't matter. (Oh yeah: no safety, so it was loaded five-up, and he finished the fight with one round held in reserve and unfired once the goblin ran his gun dry.)Know. Your. Gun.
Seriously.
(Sidenote: this is even more important if the gun has been individually modified, such as the aforementioned TI firing pin in a classic 1911 pattern. If you bought it used, was it modded? If you don't know the answer to that question, ya oughta find out, right? Start by taking it totally apart, check everything, function-test it, test-fire it, etc.)
Are you familiar with the Tueller Drill (an armed man can cover 21 feet in less time than most can draw and fire)?
Or the 3/3/3 rule (that most gunfights are 3 rounds at 3 feet and over in 3 seconds)?
Drawing and racking the slide takes a good portion of your allotted time in any of these scenarios.
99.999% of the time we can even leave the gun at home without ever needing it. I train for the 0.001% event.
Inhimwelive
New member
Hypocrisy
Although I carry my gun Locked and loaded I can't help but notice a hypocrisy every time this topic comes up.. It comes down to this, every time people will start saying a gun that doesn't have a round in the chamber is worthless. However when talking of caliber you will hear over and over again that just drawing the gun will stop most aggressions.. So which is it????????? If this is true then a completely empty gun would have value in many altercations.
Also the reality is yes there will be many times that you would not have time to chamber a round before being attacked.. But then again this isn't always true.. You could be in the back of a store and see an armed person come in the front door it could be a couple of minutes before they even notice you.. Yes there are definite disadvantages to not having one in the chamber but please lets stop saying its worthless at all to carry then.
Although I carry my gun Locked and loaded I can't help but notice a hypocrisy every time this topic comes up.. It comes down to this, every time people will start saying a gun that doesn't have a round in the chamber is worthless. However when talking of caliber you will hear over and over again that just drawing the gun will stop most aggressions.. So which is it????????? If this is true then a completely empty gun would have value in many altercations.
Also the reality is yes there will be many times that you would not have time to chamber a round before being attacked.. But then again this isn't always true.. You could be in the back of a store and see an armed person come in the front door it could be a couple of minutes before they even notice you.. Yes there are definite disadvantages to not having one in the chamber but please lets stop saying its worthless at all to carry then.
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Amin Parker
New member
Its gotta have one chambered.