CCW vs. Unlicensed Carry?

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DeadCalm

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There are so many posts advocating CCW, but I am concerned about licensing as a "red flag" should more stringent gun controls be enacted. Some of my firearms are inherited, and as such untraceable. I hate to lead anyone to my door by additional registration.

On the other hand, I sometimes carry without a license and am concerned about being discovered as such. Montana, my state, is awfully tolerant of gun ownership, but if the federal poop hits the fan, who knows?
Anyone with any cost/benefit thoughts on this? Your help is appreciated.
 
Dont do it.

If you own a handgun - but not a CCW...
Do not carry concealed. If its legal to carry open - carry open. If you cary hidden and get caught - your going to be in a lot of hot water.

Obey the laws. Stretch'm but dont break'm!


Just for example of hot water: If you get caught in Richmond VA where project exhile is in effect - it is an automatic 5 years for each violation. 5 for the Gun. 5 for the ammo. so you looking at 10 years in federal jail - minimum.

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Then get out of Virginia! In Oklahoma the penalty for carrying illegally is a maximum $500 fine and/or a maximum 30 days in the county jail. The situation is still wrong, but it won't destroy your life.

I don't know what the penalties are in Montana, but I do know that it is legal to carry without a permit in most places other than incorporated areas, logging, mining and railroad camps.
 
I both agree and disagree with George. If it is possible to get a legal CCW permit, do so. If not, carry anyway. The odds are GREATLY in favor of you never being caught as long as you don't otherwise break the law, and if you ever need the gun, breaking the anti-CCW law will be the least of your concerns.
 
Personal experience.

In August of 1986 I inadvertently bumped an unmarked narcotics officer's vehicle. Scratched off some paint on his fender about the area of a quarter. Thought I had bumped the plastic garbage dumpster next to it. Pulled off. Enraged narcotics officer pulled me over. I got out and asked him why I was pulled over. He told me to put my hands behind my back, I did so and was cuffed. Then he patted me down and found my Seecamp .25 and a pocketknife. He was real torqued about his car and wouldn't listen to my version of events. Somewhat understandable.
By this time bicycle cops were on the scene, patrol cars, and a police van. I was surprised there wasn't a helicopter orbiting.
They searched my pickup and found a Browning Hipower under my seat (a no no in Georgia). They exclaimed over the case of 7.62X39 ammo on the front seat and wondered if they had a terrorist while looking at the NRA and GOA stickers on my rear windshield.

I was charged with 1) Improper backing 2) Failure of duty upon striking an unattended vehicle 3) Carrying a pistol without a license 4) Carrying a weapon without a license (the pocketknife). Total bond was $6000. Since I knew no property owners in Richmond County, I was out $600 to a bondsman.

Well, I knew how things would probably go even if I got el cheapo lawyer. However, conviction on the weapons charges could adversely affect my nursing license so I got the best criminal attorney in the region. $3000.

Accepted a plea bargain. Plead guilty to improper backing and failure of duty upon striking in return for the nolle prosse of the weapons charges. I was placed on one year probation for improper backing and a consecutive one year probation for failure of duty upon striking and fined a couple of hundred bucks. Word of warning here: DO NOT make traffic court for anything in Richmond County Georgia. They have privatized the Probation Office and put anyone who pleads guilty in court for anything on probation. Saw a guy who ran a stop sign put on a year's probation.

Ironically, my CCW was sitting on the Probate Court Judge's desk as the above happened. He just hadn't sent it yet. On the day that the weapons charges were dropped he presented it to me. (Misdemeanour traffic charges don't affect CCW eligibility in Georgia)

Total financial cost was about $4300.

You decide.

How could Project Exile affect someone who was just carrying without a license but was otherwise in lawful possession under federal law?

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Byron Quick
 
Addendum to above: The narcotics officer was illegally parked in two particulars-parked in a loading zone and parked against the flow of traffic. The traffic officer-to his credit-clearly showed this in the accident report but for some reason the narcotics officer was not charged. Wonder why? Guess they didn't want him to wind up with two years probation!
 
Wow. I've had a similar incident in my past, but nowhere near as severe as the one Sparticus went through. However, it did involve illegal concealment of a 6" knife, an ASP, and a shuriken (hey, I was young ok? :)) in the fine state of New York. Luckily, the two officers who detained us was very nice and sympathetic as we were very cooperative. Also, I was underaged at the time. Misdemeanor, and it was purged at age 18. Aside from said items, I didn't lose anything else short of a slap on the wrist.

But I learned my lesson. We have enough to worry about from the criminal elements, no need to have the law against us either. In my opinion, it's ok to be armed, but do it legally.
 
All:

What's the general concensus concerning long distance driving?

Do you play it "safe" and not travel with a handgun in the car for protection while on the road and while in motels/hotels during your trip OR do you risk potential prosecution/legal expenses and carry a weapon to protect yourself and your family/friends when driving across state lines?

I just completed a cross country trip...consisted of several days of driving and stays in motels, B&Bs, etc. I didn't do it naked either.

What do you think?
Mike
 
To clarify George Hill's posting re Virginia slightly:

a) Project Exile is "strong medicine" designed to combat ILLEGAL handgun possession in Virginia. However, it is NOT limited to Richmond (although Richmond is the premier site and has recently had some excellent crime reduction statistics attributed to Exile). In fact, within the last ten days, a large traffic sign has been erected on I-395 south in Arlington (proximate to the Pentagon) reminding drivers that Exile requires five years imprisonment, indicating that it's state-wide.

b) Virginia law allows non-concealed handgun carriage.

c) Virginia is a "shall issue" state; therefore, obtaining a permit to carry a concealed handgun is not difficult, if an individual is law abiding, minimally trained, and reasonably responsible.
 
Dead Calm: Some states licenses record the serial number and model of the particular gun you can carry; others do not.

So, obey the particulars of your state's laws.

Now, why should that particular pistol be the only one you own? And if you have to register the gun to get the license, buy a brand new gun and don't register any of your "clean" guns.

And then be quiet as to what you own...

:), Art
 
Dead Calm:

Look at this way. If you you get the CCW permit you are on record as being a law abiding citizen who owns a firearm and would like to have the option of carrying it concealed.

If you don't get the permit and get caught you will be on record as being a law breaking citizen who owns firearms and shows a disregard for the law and responsible gun ownership. The choice is yours.
 
FWIW, I have a CCW license. Our state statute requires it to be presented on demand with a photo id, like the driver's license. But copies are OK.

So I have made multiple copies of BOTH the CCW and the drivers on a single page. I permanently place a copy of this page in EVERY gun case I own (generally under the foam), in my glove compartment, in the space above the sun visor. And, of course, in my wallet. A copy is in my desk at home and at the office.

Why? So if I ever accidentally bump into a cop who blows a gasket and does something really nutso, like tears up my CCW and then arrests me for carrying without a license (remember Mark Furham), it's his butt not mine that goes to jail.
 
DeadCalm:

While I have carried occasionally in the past w/o permit, I generally think it's a bad idea, and the circumstances must really warrant it. Frankly, I don't want a record of any kind... even low-grade misdemeanors. I want nothing to jeopardize my gun rights, if "they" start to tinker with the prerequisites. Someday, even those with misdemeanors might wake up to find out that they are disqualified from gun ownership. A nightmare, but not impossible.

Know the state-by-state laws. Some states, CO for example, allow a gun in the car if you are in transit. Others are OK with open carry.I generally carry, gun in the trunk, when on road trips, and have the gun in the hotel/campsite.

I just got my UT non-resident ccw, by the way. Valid in MT, fyi, and a bunch of other states. Even if your home state doesn't issue, my theory is that in a tricky situation, if you can present any CCW to LEOs, it identifies you as a good guy, and may buy you some understanding. I don't think it can hurt, and it might help a lot. FWIW
 
A very bad idea to carry without a CCW. I've been lucky. In my previous life I was a retail store director and district manager. I live in a state where a CCW is rare. I worked many hours (80+) a week. The only time I was able to run to keep fit was late at night, so I carried without. Luckily I was never caught. If I had been, I wouldn't be able to... 1. Hold a credental and teach with my wife. (Yes, same school site & track), 2. Possess CCW's for Utah, Arizona and Florida so I can travel to Disneyworld with my wife and three year old daughter safely and 3. Have my daughter see me as a "good law abiding father." You never know what possibilities the future holds for you.
 
Hmmm, yet when you felt the need was there, you still carried without a permit. That borders on the hypocritical doesn't it?
Bottom line is the old saying: It is better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.
I have to repeat, if you CAN get a CCW permit, certainly do it. But if you live in a state where you can't, I think you are smarter to carry anyway than to leave your fate in the hands of some criminal.
 
As sort of an extension to RikWriter's post: According to the 2nd Amendment, we have the right to own, maintain, and carry firearms.This is a right that can not be infringed upon. Maybe what we should be doing is going on the offensive and challenging state laws that unconstitutionally infringe on that right.

The state with the best position on any kind of carry is obviously Vermont, where you can carry open or concealed without any type of fee, permit, etc., so long as it's without the intent to harm another person.

Why not get in touch with your state reps and ask them to abolish whatever unconstitutional carry law you've got in your state and replace it with a Vermont-style law? I'm in the process of doing that here in my state. I'd be happy to e-mail the letter I've been sending to anyone who wants to do the same thing in their home states.
 
I would not carry unlawfully, it can wreck you life.

It is a slight hassel to get a CCL, but not near the hassel it will be if you get caught carring unlawfully.

In Texas, it is legal to carry w/o a CCL if you are "traveling" or going to a sporting event where a firearm is used, such as a shooting competition.

As for the conspiracy theory, I don't think that having a CCL is going to put you on any collection list if the "state" decides to take up the guns. It might put you on the list of people who get to keep them.
 
you stand a much greater chance of getting all you gun rights taken away by breaking laws than you ever will if mysterious jack booted thugs in black helicoptors come knocking at your door...

think about it....SDnR
 
Stopdropnroll,

Jack booted thugs are still the ones unconstitutionally taking away your rights even in the case that you state. If you ever have the 'need' to have been carrying, then you probably will be in a much worse shape than what ever the tyrannical(sp?) state and its minions will do to you.

If you carry illegal, be VERY CAREFUL to CONCEAL VERY WELL because it can bite you in the *ss.
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**** the government!
 
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