CCW IN GA

I'm going to comment on legal concealed firearm carry in Georgia, but first, some strong disclaimers:

I am NOT a lawyer. I could be (and often am) wrong. My info could be outdated. Don't quote me as an authoritative source. Don't take my word for it, find out how your district attorney and local law enforcement view the GA CCW laws. If you get in trouble because of what I say, it's not my fault, it's yours. I warned you. blah blah blah

Now go back and please read my disclaimer again.

OK, this is what is on the back of my GA permit, renewed in June of this year:

**************

16-11-127. Carrying deadly weapons to or at public gatherings

(a) Except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.1, a person is
guilty of a misdemeanor when he carries to or while at a public
gathering any explosive compound, firearm, or knife designed for the
purpose of offense and defense.

(b) For the purpose of this Code section, "public gathering" shall
include, but shall not be limited to, athletic or sporting events,
churches or church functions, political rallies or functions,
publicly owned or operated buildings, or establishments at which
alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises.

(c) This Code section shall not apply to competitors participating
in organized sport shooting events. Law enforcement officers, peace
officers retired from state or federal law enforcement agencies,
judges, magistrates, solicitors-general, and district attorneys may
carry pistols in publicly owned or operated buildings.

*******************

Now comes the fun part:
Go to http://www.ganet.org/services/ocode/ocgsearch.htm and look up the above section 16-11-127.

Looks the same? Look again! At the end of section (b):
***************
Nothing in this Code section shall otherwise prohibit the carrying
of a firearm in any other public place by a person licensed or
permitted to carry such firearm by this part.
***************

IIRC this statement was added by my local state senator Sonny Purdue (insert cheers and hurrahs! :) ) a couple years ago to more fully clarify this section.

But is this what is put on the back of the permit? NO. I politely faxed the relavant info to my local probate judge office and never heard anything back. The best I got on the phone was "This is the way we always did it." :mad:

After the election I'll be (hopefully) contacting the good state senator to help clear this up statewide.

But back to GA CCW: I've asked lots of cops what the "public gathering" means, and for every 5 I ask, I get like 7 different answers. I get a lot of vaguaries but nothing that is backed up anywhere.

There is one court precedent that says something like if you are in a location where you can't have a concealed weapon, and you got one somehow and used it for legal reasons, then you're OK. Vague?? YES. (Go back and reread the disclaimer because I might be wrong)

In talking with someone involved with the legal profession, the concealed carry laws seem purposely vague such that the arresting officer and the judge can decide whether to bust you or not. (Please go back and reread the disclaimer)

Cops have told me:
-Don't let anyone know you have a gun
-Don't start any trouble
-Don't be a jerk/don't look like a jerk
-Keep your GA permit on your person
...and they don't care if/when you're carrying. (obviously this doesn't apply in metal detector areas like airports, schools, courtrooms, etc.)

When I say "don't start any trouble", I mean just because someone cut you off in traffic and flipped you the bird is no reason to go chase him through rush hour and start a fistfight. He pulls a knife, you pull a gun, BANG and now you're explaining to the courtroom why you went after him while carrying a gun. You've got to learn how to absorb a lot of $h!t if you're going to carry lethal hardware.

Keep in mind that most police officers do not study every nuance and court precedent of GA concealed carry law. Don't expect to quote a code section to a cop and impress him.

16-11-128 has a very long paragraph about carrying openly while hunting or fishing. Once again don't take my word for it.

And one last word, if you think the Georgia code is written weird, check out 16-11-122, 16-11-123, then read 16-11-124 (4): You can't have a machine gun/silencer/sawed off shotgun unless you have one legally per Federal law. Don't ask me why it took 3 code sections to say that.

Hope that helps.

Once again, I am not a lawyer, go reread the disclaimer.

Edmund
 
Edmund is right on here. Today I spoke with the DA's office here in Houston County. Then I spoke with a Detective I know in the Sheriff's Department. Then I called the office of the judge that signed my Georgia Firearms License. All confirmed that the license allows concealed carry. No license is required for open carry except that there are situations where you may not carry at all, open or concealed, licensed or not. One thing the deputy said was, "If it's concealed, it won't come up for discussion, right?" He also said he would not let the lack of a license prevent him from protecting himself or loved ones. "You just have to do the right thing," is the way he put it.

I also am not a lawyer, but the myth that you cannot open carry in GA is just that, a myth. Now, if I was stupid enough to do it, I would deserve whatever the next uneducated deputy that came along was dishing out. I just wouldn't do it unless I was hunting or fishing.

Go to Georgia Sports Shooting Association. Click on "The Gold Dome". Click on "Search Georgia Code by key word". Enter "firearms" and click on "search". Or go to Georgia Code Section 16-11-120, then read through section 16-11-134. Pay particular attention to sections 16-11-126, -127, -127.1, -128 and, of course, -129. (Hint: 1) Yes, you can carry concealed while changing a flat. 2) Yes, licensed hunters are exempt while hunting.) :)

- sensop




[This message has been edited by sensop (edited November 07, 2000).]
 
Okay, maybe I'm still a grunt at heart or just dumb as a rock but somebody clearify this for me, if you can.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>16-11-130.
(a) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to or
affect any of the following persons if such persons are employed in
the offices listed below or when authorized by federal or state law,
regulations, or order:
...
(3) Persons in the military service of the state or of the United States;...[/quote]

According to section 16-11-130 sections 126-128 don't apply to me because I'm military? So, even without the permit I can carry a concealed weapon? Is that only while on duty because any soldier will tell you that's 24/7/365. I take that to mean while engaged in military operations but the wording is sketchy at best. To the best of my knowledge the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) doesn't say anything about carrying a concealed weapon. Although, Article 134 of the UCMJ was designed as a "catch all" in case an offense doesn't fall into any other article. Any military scholars want to take a stab at this one?

------------------
Matthew J. Giegler
US Army
Fort Irwin, California
"GUN CONTROL MEANS USING BOTH HANDS!"
 
Staff Judge Advocate, Civil Law Section here locally says that military personnel are exempt in accordance with the Georgia's Code Section 16-11-130 (a)(3)...

HOWEVER, SJA recommends playing by the local rules and get a permit, although it is not technically required. The problem seems to be the lack of familiarity on the part of local law personnel, with the carry statutes.

There is the small problem of packing on post/base, if you are not in law enforcement or security ... :eek:!

- sensop


[This message has been edited by sensop (edited November 07, 2000).]
 
sensop,
You wouldn't happen to be anywhere near Warner Robins would you? My dad was stationed there from 82-84 when they still had the B-52 wing. We moved back to the Macon area when he retired in 89. He now flies for Delta out of Cincinnatti. I originally planned on joining the Air Force in the hopes of being SP but they couldn't send me to basic for 19 months! The Army was glad to grab me up and had me at basic training three weeks later. If I'd only waited. :(

[This message has been edited by Redleg (edited November 07, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
sensop,

You wouldn't happen to be anywhere near Warner Robins would you? My dad was stationed there from 82-84 when they still had the B-52 wing. We moved back to the Macon area when he retired in 89. ...[/quote]

Yes, indeedee. I work on base for one of those filthy luchre-seeking DoD contractors providing engineering services to the USAF.

Retired from AF a few years ago. B-52s gone now. Refuelers still here. B-1s are here now, with the GA Air Guard. LOUD suckers!

'Ever in the area, get with me for some outdoor shooting at the Fort Valley Gun Club and a beer & steak at the homestead, which, by the way, is an open carry zone. :) :)

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited November 07, 2000).]
 
I've been told by a cynical attorney that the Georgia concealed carry law was written so ambiguously for a specific reason,i.e, so they can charge you anyway if they so desire.

------------------
Byron Quick
 
DangerDave:
Though I'm a State employee, and technically my office is at 2 Peachtree, I avoid Atlanta like the plague. I'm a Regional IT Coordinator for DHR and my region is from Metter east to Savannah, then south to the Florida Border.

You wrote:
--------------
As a rule, I've found that most Ga. state employees are conservative, huntin', fishin' & gun-totin' kinda folks (e.g. my > supv. has a "Bob Barr" bumper sticker on his desk and is listening to Rush Limbaugh right now). The exceptions are usually pretty vocal, though.
--------------

Well, this'll probably surprise you, but I'm not a redneck. I was born and raised in NY City, (accent and all) and moved South to get out of the North to get away from both the cold and the liberals. I don't hunt, I don't chew tabaccy, though I have been know to be a likker-swillin', gun-totin' conservative on occasion. (Of course, never at the same time.) That's one of the reasons I hate Atlanta so much: It's like this liberal island in a sea of conservativism.

But I'm learning...

[This message has been edited by joegerardi (edited November 08, 2000).]
 
joegerardi,

By now you must know what we call yankees that come south and don't go back north. :)

I had an occasion to be in upstate NY a few years back (Watertown). Good people.
 
What about travel through Georgia, by persons who have CCW license from the State
of Alabama? My wife will be going to
see her dad in North Augusta, S.C. around
Thanksgiving?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
JoeG, you seem to have stumbled on one of the great truths of Georgia - Atlanta is NOT part of the state, at least as far as most Georgians are concerned. I'm one of the few people I know around Atlanta (not counting relatives) that was actually born here.

I might work in Fulton Co., but I live in Paulding Co. - it's like two different countries.
 
Ala Dan, I checked www.packing.org, only Indiana and Kentucky honor AL CCW. In GA you can carry in your car w/o a permit if the gun is in plain view or in the glovebox.

It seems that one more person has realized that our stategy of concentrating liberals in Atlanta so they won't get their feelings hurt by the common sense ideals of the rest of the state is working. Just our way of making sure everyone gets to experience southern hospitality. For anybody who doesn't think Atlanta is liberal enough, move to downtown Athens. A veritable hippie paradise.
 
sensop,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Ever in the area, get with me for some outdoor shooting at the Fort Valley Gun Club and a beer & steak at the homestead, which, by the way, is an open carry zone.[/quote]

My father-in-law, Ed George, whom I've spoke of a couple times on the board now, used to be a member at Fort Valley. In fact, he may still be, I'm not sure. He lives in the Macon area and has shot in competition for many years now. I'll be in Macon for a week over Christmas and plan to buy a .308 (my first hunting rifle) while I'm there. Ed and I spend a lot of time at the Bibb County Sheriff's Range where I will no doubt be sending a few downrange before I head out with my new rifle. I'd love to take you up on the offer when I get home again though. Hopefully it won't be too much longer before I'm back for good!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sensop:
I had an occasion to be in upstate NY a few years back (Watertown). Good people.[/quote]

I went to school in Ithaca, NY, back when New York state had that stupid I Love NY (with Love being a red, heart-shaped apple) campaign. Central New York is truly a beautiful place. At the time, though, I saw a bumper sticker which I really agreed with. It read "I Love NY too, it's the New Yorkers I hate."

M1911
 
Thanks very much for the info JWR; I'll make
sure that it's in the glove box, before she
leaves the house!!! :D :)

Best Wishes & Happy Holiday's,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
sensop,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My father-in-law... used to be a member at Fort Valley. In fact, he may still be, I'm not sure.[/quote]

My wife tells me their whole family is, in fact, lifetime Fort Valley members. Her dad's gunshop in their basement is full of Fort Valley (and other) plaques and trophies that they have collected over the years. I've even been told that there was a certan Sheriff's son who was out shot by my wife back in high school! I don't like to admit this but until I joined the military and got some training my wife used to make my head spin out on the range!
 
Yup. I see it right here on the roster. Small world. I don't remember meeting Ed, but we probably have. 150 members.

- sensop
 
Got my GA Firearms Permit in about 1 hr., including trip to local jail for fingerprinting. Took my daughter about 30 minutes.

In GA, you can also carry in the console of your car without having a firearms permit.

My community is so small that being hassled by local or State cops is a non-issue. We all know each other.

Gerardi is fast becoming a redneck; he just hasn't realized it yet.
 
sensop,
I know Ed hasn't been active in the club for a while now. That's why I was unsure if he was still a member. I'd love to be able to join a gun club but I don't stay in one place very long, what with defending the free world and all! ;)

[This message has been edited by Redleg (edited November 08, 2000).]
 
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