CCW and the public's fear

Antis fear concealed and carry because they see how many people die in gun violence every day and think now if more and more people are carrying guns the more likely there will be violence.
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That is it in a nutshell. They need to be educated that the posession of a firearm for protection is a good thing. But you don't do that by being a "Rambo" spouting all the macho crap we read by some on this forum.
 
There are many here who will tell you that they only carry for self defense.
They have approved after going under the Federal microsope. The people with CCW permits can become police officers if they pass the tests.

Why on earth should people fear those who have a CCW permit?

Having an irratational fear is very in vouge in today's confused society.

Let's put it this way... Why wouldn't you want more armed honest, mentally secure defenders of your life.

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that a person who is CCWing would come to your defense if you were being attacked. This is not a Rambo moment, this is saving your unarmed butt.
 
Thinking that the Ramboism shown on sites like this has much effect on the general public is pretty naive. A very, very small portion of the general public ever clicks on sites like this.

The problem rests more with folks whose roots are in sissy states like NY, NJ and KA, than anything else. Lots of those folks are in the news media, and most of those folks (from the aforesaid states) were not brought up to make decisions for themselves and to believe that defending oneself is a personal, rather than a governmental responsibility.
 
I hate to say this but beyond chest pounding, gun ownership has been seen as an indicator of less than pleasant social attitudes on other dimensions. If gun ownership is seen as only correlated with right wing attitudes, you lose a good part of the country, esp. a significant portion of women.

Gun forums have bans on discussion of race, sexual orientation, abortion, religion, etc. because of the firestorm those topics generate.

We used to see a lot of "God D***, there are liberals on this forum!!!.

It was assumed that you must be a social conservative to be a worthy member of the gun world.

So, if you advocate owning an instrument of deadly force and hold other unpleasant attitudes to some, it's hard to convince folks that gun ownership is attractive as compared to getting rid of them to promote safety.

The core issue is the need for safety. We did a survey once on gun ownership and the positive reason was for safety and self-defense. Almost no one of a random sample even considered the defense against tyranny.
 
cold dead hands: I would bet dollars to doughnuts that a person who is CCWing would come to your defense if you were being attacked.
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I hope that you are right. The sad fact remains that there are people that would roundly condemn a CHL holder for having saved their sorry butt! One student interviewed following the VT shooting said the she would have been furious if a CHL holder had shot Cho and saved her life. Of course views sometimes change when staring death in the face. But I have no doubt that there are people like this girl who would actually stand behind such a belief.
 
One student interviewed following the VT shooting said the she would have been furious if a CHL holder had shot Cho and saved her life.
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Sounds to me like she is bent of shape because she didn't get killed. Maybe she is suicidal, but doesn't have guts to actually do it.

I wonder how she would feel about someone with a CCW saving someone she truly loves. I say this because I have doubts that has/had any concern for her fellow students who were at risk and certainly no cares about those who were shot and killed or injured.

Sounds to me like someone needs a lot of time with a shrink and maybe some medication.
 
There are many here who will tell you that they only carry for self defense.
They have approved after going under the Federal microsope. The people with CCW permits can become police officers if they pass the tests.

Why on earth should people fear those who have a CCW permit?
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Very true. But most of general society, hell, a good number of gun owners don't even know what we go through before we get a CCW.

Thinking that the Ramboism shown on sites like this has much effect on the general public is pretty naive. A very, very small portion of the general public ever clicks on sites like this.
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That may be true to a point. But how do these "Rambos" act out amoung the non-gun owners?
 
Liberals and normal people inhabit the same objective universe, just like a grasshopper and you live in the same objective universe. But the grasshopper sees it a lot differently. Liberals live in a very different subjective universe from normal people. Up is down, black is white, etc. Guns equal crime in their subjective universe. Civilians with guns are criminals. Unarmed civilians given guns invariably become criminals.
 
"I find your lack of perspective-taking disturbing."-Darth CDFT.

You know? It's funny, because liberals would say the same thing about conservatives: They think down is up, white is black, poor (financially) means innately inferior, and that scientific research is whatever we managed to hit on the dartboard to use to achieve our pre-formed conclusions.

Anti-gunners are projecting their unease with guns onto everybody else that they view as law-abiding. Conservatives have a proud history of projecting their upbringing onto everybody. And at this point I'd like to say: don't tell me about how your family was dirt poor and you still blah blah blah. Your family or somebody else close to you loved you, provided support for you, and all that. Not everybody can say that, and those that can't say that are the ones you see making trouble.*

*More perspective-taking. I'll bet the first thing you thought was "Terrific idea CDFT! Let's just forgive them for their crimes because of how crappy their upbringing was!" I get that a lot every time I suggest that maybe we should do things to see to it that these people don't have crappy upbringings in the first place. White is black, prevention is forgiving...
 
SteelJM1

I searched but could not fine anything. I’m not certain if her comments were part of the article. She might have been responding in the reader comment section. However I was unable to come up with anything on Google. Sorry.
 
I did not read all posts.

Take any "afraid of guns" person and educate them and you will have a convert. DO NOT start a ladie shooting with a snubby 357 that cuts her hand on every shot. Nice 22 will be great for a starter.

Also point out that a gun cannot shoot by itself-takes a shooter (driver if it was a car). Gun can lay on dresser for years and just rust (not recommended).
 
I worked in the LE field. During that time I carried pretty much 24/7.
"Oh, you're a cop, that's cool", or "I feel safer going out with a cop around".

I finally decided to change careers and less than two full days after I ran into someone who said "What, do you still think you are a cop? You shouldn't have that (my gun) anymore".

Like my rights, training, outlook, and most of all the enemies I'd gained doing that job, had all just vanished when I turned in my badge. :mad:
 
because liberals would say the same thing about conservatives
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But the objective universe does in fact exist and we can prove and disprove some things. The value of private gun ownership and the ineffectiveness of gun control are empirically demonstrable.
 
Lightning Joe said:
But the objective universe does in fact exist and we can prove and disprove some things. The value of private gun ownership and the ineffectiveness of gun control are empirically demonstrable.
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Well, that's just the thing: Lott's research is somewhat shaky, and though you can view his data as showing that liberalization of CCW laws is a good thing and still be on good statistical grounds, it's not an uber-duber (super-duper if you prefer) strong connection.

Anyway, though I agree with you (the two million annual defensive gun usages statistic is likely quite high, but even government surveys put it as being hundreds of uses daily to defend against severe crimes in progress already) about the utility of CCW, the merits of CCW wasn't the point of the post: the point was that while liberals close their eyes to good things about guns, conservatives close their eyes about other things.
 
The value of private gun ownership and the ineffectiveness of gun control are empirically demonstrable.
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Cheers to you sir. You nailed it.

I know this is going outside of U.S. borders for this, but it supports your statement.

Any victim of disarmament and genocide is the greatest proof that removal of firearms are the greatest non living proof that gun control is absolutely ineffective against saving lives. If the 'liberals' are so interested in saving lives then wht aren't they trying to arm groups who are victims of genocide.

Oh yeah, I forgot, they couldn't care less about anybody outside of the U.S.

Gun control is a power grab at best and an attempt to wield power at worst.

: the point was that while liberals close their eyes to good things about guns, conservatives close their eyes about other things.
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Could you clarify for that for me please?
 
I've derailed the thread enough as it is. Read my first post a bit further up: conservatives tend to not like the idea of using the government against the social ills that breed crime in some areas.
 
Well, that's just the thing: Lott's research is somewhat shaky, and though you can view his data as showing that liberalization of CCW laws is a good thing and still be on good statistical grounds, it's not an uber-duber (super-duper if you prefer) strong connection.
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Well, that's the trouble of relying on statistics instead of fundamental principles. I hold the fundamental principle that a rapist should be shot, rather than submitted to.

Whether the overall outcome is statistically better or worse if you shoot a rapist instead of submit to him is irrelevant.
 
The biggest problem is many people are so inept, yet so elitist, that:

1) they do not think they are personally capable of handling "the responsibility" of owning a gun, so think no one else can handle that responsibility (yet they have no trouble trying something REALLY tough - like raising kids! or driving cars)

2) they trust the...good will(??) of the bad guy more then they trust themselves; and if they can not expect to perform well in such a confrontation, how could anyone else? (no matter how hard you train!)
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Bingo. I know a couple of well-meaning but nutso people (liberals) of this stripe. They don't feel there's anything they can do for themselves that government can't do better, whether it's protection against crime, providing for one's healthcare, or educating one's children.

If you follow college football you *may* be familiar with the University of Florida's QB and Heisman candididate Tim Tebow. He was home-schooled by his parents but played FB with other high schools, graduated early and entered college early. The reaction of our anti- friends when they heard he was home-schooled? "How can his parents be so arrogant, to think they can do a better job than a real high school" Uh, hello, guess you haven't met the products of government schools lately? A lot of 'em have been "educated" about as well as the government has done in winning the war on drugs, living within the Federal budget, or running the US post office or VA. The local sheriff who you don't like? He's the government. Care to rely solely on him to protect you from a criminal who's in your face right now? The notion that one could and should do what is within one's power to protect oneself is just an alien idea. Accepting even some responsibility and interest in and for one's well-being is becoming a thing of the past.

CCW and use of a firearm in self-defense is probably the ultimate statement of self-responsibility. If you carry and are trained and know how to use it, and will use it if need be, YOU (not the government) are telling the bad guy "not me, not today, never mind what the police (who might take a while to arrive) say".
 
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