CCW and the public's fear

C

cold dead hands

Moderator
I was thinking that the general public fears people who carry guns because those who chose to arm themselves have made a deliberate decision to shoot and potentially kill an attacker if needs be.

Most of the public seem very afraid of the concept of lethal force in self defense. Some are so scared that they have acknowledged that they will allow themselves to be killed instead of fighting back. Don't believe me, talk to the average female, especially suburban mothers. you will at least hear,''I'm scared of guns''. Guaranteed. I'm not picking on women only. There's lots of male wussies too.

opinions?
 
I get that feeling too. More 'noble' to lay down one's life at the hands of an attacker than defend yourself with a firearm. Heck, they even counsel women to 'submit' to an attacker rather than fight in some cases. This is the very reason why I don't open carry more often. Believe me, having to hide my sidearm all the time is a real PITA.

But, my friend's wife (who is pregnant btw) took me aside one day and asked if I could 'school' her on firearms safety after her kid is born. She's been programmed to be afraid of guns all her life but is rational enough to realize guns are simply tools and wants to demystify them. I'm actually holding their 30-30 in my gun case for the time being.

Maybe when I get enough nerve I'll OC all the time and find out what the real feeling about firearms is in my area.
 
The anti gunners have done a good job of demonizing guns and shooting. The reaction from many women, in particular, is "I don't like guns", or "I'm afraid of guns". I find it's most prevelant among people who didn't grow up in an environment where there were guns.

The fear of guns is largely due to never being around them or exposed to them in a positive way. The media, with their constant dribble about gun control, adds to that fear.

My wife is from a family that never had any exposure to guns and it's taken her a while to be comfortable when I am cleaning them or have them out of the gun safe. She's inquizative and would like to go shooting and see what it's about, but is still too timid to do so. I'm not pushing the issue and will wait until she asks to go and then take her out and let her try shooting a .
22lr. (after spending time discussing firearm safety).
 
It's the old "having a gun will make you kill" delusion. Some people actually believe it. A guy at work asked me recently, "I wonder how many people with guns get pissed off at someone and shoot them?"

My reply was, "Not nearly as many as get pissed off and stab someone with a kitchen knife. How many times have people been pissed at you, me in particular? And how many times have you been shot?"

The answer's to my question where, "Alot." and "Never."

People just don't think. They blindly accept the canned ideas they're fed and go about their lives never questioning them.
 
So the wife and I are driving late at night (maybe 3:00 a.m.) on a remote interstate. She's accpeting of guns, but doesn't like the thought of carrying one. I did get her to get her CCW for legal reasons, though, so I don't have to worry about leaving a gun in the car and her getting arrested for it (a bit of fighting over that).

Anyway ... 3:00 a.m. and we pull into a rest stop on the interestate. She has to go to the bathroom, but one of us has to stay with the sleeping kiddies. She starts for the bathroom, which is across the grass by the semis, then suddenly turns around and says that it doesn't look safe. ANd it did look kind of spooky.

I offer her the .38 I've got in the car -- which she is perfectly legal to carry and does know how to use. She looks at me like I'm nuts. "What am I going to do if someone walks in there?" she asks, "pull a gun on him?"

I can't put her tone of voice in this post, but it was like I'd given her a child's magic wand and asked her to part the red sea. Like I was being absolutely nuts.

"No," I said, "some man walks in to a woman's restroom at 3:00 in the morning at a remote rest stop and starts for you, no jury is going to convict you. You pull that trigger until you're safe."

This started somewhat of a fight. I still don't understand her mentality. But she has been so trained that she can't fight back that she no longer considers it an option, whatever the tools at hand.

Very, very sad. I think it is a common female outlook, though. I hope I am raising my daughters differently. Though if my wife's views carry over ...
 
Every population has those that prey off of others. Is most societies, this population is a very small minority. So in a power struggle, they are going to lose. I firmly believe that an individual, and a society as a whole, can only be victimized to the extent that they allow themselves to be victimized. Simply, all you have to do to not be a victim is nurture that mentality, and refuse to be a victim.

I see it in our society too. Somehow, a women dead and raped in a parking lot is morally superior to a women with a smoking gun standing over the body of a would be rapist. And it makes me sick.

Fortunately, nature has a way of weeding out the weak. It is not particularly forgiving of those who are so overwhelmingly numbed by the misgivings of society that they forsake their own instincts.

I say "hell no!" Fight back. Go down kicking and screaming if you must go down, but don't just take it.

It is a simple concept to me. Criminals operate on risk vs reward. If they feel the reward is worth the risk, they are more apt to seize any opportunity they see to take what they want. As a society and its individuals becomes lax and commits to a policy of nonviolent resistance, the risk decreases. Crime increases because criminals know society is afraid to fight them and they use that fear to their advantage. They know they only have to talk about how they were abused, or about how they were holding an honest, hard-working American citizen with a family of his own to feed at gun point to feed their families, and some bleeding-heart Hippy spawned pacifistic daisy frolicking moron Hillary-crat will feel sorry for them.

But if a society commits to fight back, the criminal minority can't hope to win. If criminals know they will be resisted, that violence on their part will be matched by the violence of their would-be victims, and that they stand a good chance of losing life and limb, then the risk increases. Only the largest rewards or most open opportunities are deemed worthy of the attempt by even the most desperate of individuals.

I view it not only as might right to defend myself, but my duty. My job is to make sure that criminals know violence begets violence. I will fight with everything at my disposal. I will resist for as long as I draw breath. I will fix bayonets. I will counter-attack. I, will not be a victim.
 
A poem I wrote...

AKviolence.jpg
 
It's amazing how many people have the idea that private citizens with guns are automatically classified as "bad guys" and authorities with guns are automatically classified as "good guys". It's also assumed that criminals know how to use guns better than law abiding citizens.

If a private citizen has a gun, people automatically assume he must be unsafe, because he certainly doesn't know how to use it. The criminal will take it away from him, or he'll shoot an innocent bystander (never mind that the gangbangers and others spray innocent people more by a huge margin). It usually is also be assumed quite often that the private citizen must be a loose cannon waiting to go off, unstrustworthy. Also never mind that police rarely train with their weapons unless they train on their own time, and police shoot innocent bystanders far more than private citizens also.

In the past when someone found out about me having guns (fiance's family for example, or my doctor) I found I was able to dispell their fears by informing them I've trained for years at a facility where police train (off duty). They instantly react like "Oh if you've trained with the police, you must be an expert then".

The news media, talk shows, Hollywood, have really implanted these ideas into peoples' minds.
 
Hey heres an opinion:

The non gun public fears CCWers because of ramboism, internet chest pounding, anger and aggression as demonstrated by posts on this Board as well as the questionable behavior of such yahoos as that guy in Texas.

remember ye, perception is reality.

We return you now to your regularly scheduled mutual social darwinism.

WildthumpthumpthumpAlaska TM
 
Hey heres an opinion:

The non gun public fears CCWers because of ramboism, internet chest pounding, anger and aggression as demonstrated by posts on this Board as well as the questionable behavior of such yahoos as that guy in Texas.

remember ye, perception is reality.
Click to expand...

From what I've read here while lurking before I joined, you have hit some of the nails right on the head. I'm unsure if this qualifies, but one of the ones I see the most that gets me is:

"If I'm pulled over for speeding while carrying, should I tell the officer?" or something to that affect. If you're carrying, you should never be speeding. For that matter, people shouldn't speed anyway IMO, it is a violation of the law, unless it's an emergency of some type. Okay, back to the topic......
 
How many of the non-gun public are spending their time at TFL?

Aside from the wanna be cops, rambos, and Texas style kooks in recent news (he doesn't count since wasn't exactly walking the streets while armed. He went out of his house into his neighbors yard with a shotgun. That ain't CCW) I have seen very little to indicate that the public should be against and fear CCW.

The fears are unfounded and irrational. Kinda like some guy in Montana preparing for a hurricane in the middle of winter, fear of law abiding, back ground (nationally at that) checked, trained (you have to at least sit in class for some legal education) and tested (here it is 25 shots into an 8 1/2 by 11 inch piece of paper at 3,5,and 7 yards) citizens with guns is crazy.

Tell 'em to go project there fear on to something else. I carry to protect my life so that I can in turn protect my kids until they are able to take care of themselves.
 
L&P Forum: Round table discussions range from the Bill of Rights, to concealed carry, to general political issues.

Moving to L&P.
 
Don't know why the general public would fear a person legally carrying a firearm, concealed or open.

I, however, am a bit nervous around people that don't have guns. Is it because of alcoholism, felony convictions, drug useage, domestic abuse, insanity, restraining orders, or what?
 
Don't know why the general public would fear a person legally carrying a firearm, concealed or open.

I, however, am a bit nervous around people that don't have guns. Is it because of alcoholism, felony convictions, drug useage, domestic abuse, insanity, restraining orders, or what?
Click to expand...

Now that last part is just a bit silly. Choosing not to own a gun (or carry one) is just as valid a choice as choosing to own one.

I think most of the fear of guns is lack of familiarity, along with how they're portrayed in popular media (ranging from action movies to the news). They're made to look "scary." I have zero problem with guns, and even I can see where somebody would get that.

Thankfully my wife has no problem with guns (rather likes them, in fact...odd, since she's a California girl, and from the city even), and thus together we'll do our best to ensure that our kids don't either.
 
Think of how it goes in our schools today. If a fight breaks out, the aggressor will be treated better than the victim who fights back. They are being taught never to fight back regardless of the outcome. Couple that with their “guns are evil” propaganda. It’s no wonder that people think like they do today.
 
The biggest problem is many people are so inept, yet so elitist, that:

1) they do not think they are personally capable of handling "the responsibility" of owning a gun, so think no one else can handle that responsibility (yet they have no trouble trying something REALLY tough - like raising kids! or driving cars)

2) they trust the...good will(??) of the bad guy more then they trust themselves; and if they can not expect to perform well in such a confrontation, how could anyone else? (no matter how hard you train!)

3) live such a life-style that they have nothing to fear in the world, so why should normal people have anything to fear in THEIR world. IF they do have something to fear, that is because they are special. (think Rosey)
 
You know ... we don't help our own cause in a lot of ways.

Chest Banging:
Now I peruse some of the anti sites and never see posts on TFL or others cited, but with some of the stuff I see here they sure could be. On the old packing.org site there was a guy who promoted using a gun immediately when threatened, irregardless of the posture of the attacker or how it changes, and shooting them even on the ground until they "quit gurgling." Basically, he truly was promoting vigilantism, because that's what you have when use of force becomes more than just self defense/stopping the attack.

Overly Judgmental:
i.e. passing judgment on the 70 year old Texas man who shotgunned the intruders into his neighbors house and saying it's OK if he's prosecuted. Now don't get me wrong ... if he really did stride out there and blow away two men who posed him no threat then that is murder -- murder with mitigating circumstances, but murder nonetheless. But all the comments about what he said, his actions, etc. ... while no one who spends time on boards like this (all of us internet self defense law experts) would say or do such things, this guy probably wasn't a reader/poster here. So he's got a shotgun in his hands, he sees 2 guys violating his neighborhood and his friend's house, and rather than stand there passively waiting for the slow arriving police he takes action. He said some provocative things on the phone, but think about it. It's not like he was driving around looking for trouble, he was protecting his community. And if those guys did charge at him or turn aggressive in any way ... he did the right thing, irregardless of the "television learned" macho things he said while building his courage to act. I'm sure this man will not go to prison, but all of us on this board, while we talk about the mistakes he made, should defend his actions until it's determined he gunned down men who were complying or fleeing.

Defining liberty by what tools are available:
I'm all about gun rights, but a gun is just a self defense tool. Losing any given tool does not take away your right to self defense or your liberty overall. 300 Million People can overthrow a government of a few hundred thousand irregardless of weapons available. Whether or not I will automatically turn in all my guns if they are demanded tomorrow, or do like many canadians and hold on to them as an act of defiance, or take some other action, remains to be seen and I'll not be making macho statements now. The chances that I will turn my house into a suicidal standoff so I can keep my .357 is extremely slim (they'll have to take my guns BULLETS FIRST!!). it won't do much to save me or mine from the BATF SWAT team, and while I'd fight any anti-gun laws, the bottom line is I'm not going to miss watching my girl's grow up to defend my pistols.

My .02 ...
 
Grand Illusion, I've also heard people say they'd shoot someone as they run away from them, and have attempted to educate them why that would be a murder charge. Some understand right away, but some just look at me like they cannot for the life of them figure why that would be wrong.
 
Antis fear concealed and carry because they see how many people die in gun violence every day and think now if more and more people are carrying guns the more likely there will be violence.
 
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