Castle doctrine
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applesanity
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Then the question is exactly how large is the burden of proof?
Playing devil's advocate here, but say one guy visits his buddy for a few rounds of cold brews while watching the big game. Something or another leads to a conversation about politics. Things get heated, there's some pushing and shoving, and the homeowner whips out a Mossberg slide action and pumps his guest full of buckshot.
"Well officer, he, like came here all drunk and picked a fight with me. I was fearing for my life. What else was I supposed to do?"
Because you just know the anti-gun crowd is gonna repeat something like what I said.
Playing devil's advocate here, but say one guy visits his buddy for a few rounds of cold brews while watching the big game. Something or another leads to a conversation about politics. Things get heated, there's some pushing and shoving, and the homeowner whips out a Mossberg slide action and pumps his guest full of buckshot.
"Well officer, he, like came here all drunk and picked a fight with me. I was fearing for my life. What else was I supposed to do?"
Because you just know the anti-gun crowd is gonna repeat something like what I said.
fourtwentytexas
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Well you know, dead men don't tell no lies. They don't tell the truth either.
We are forced to listen to guys like you ( If the shoe fits)spew all this LIBERAL whining all the time. So I guess you have to listen to us as well. Or you could go and hang out with Obama. I'm sure he could use some help. I heard he's down a few points to Hillary
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Kinda what I thought RERICK. They whine and call names if you don't agree, in PVT messages of course can't do that in public and still be PC ya know. I don't know what circles folks run in but my observation is different on who is the fringe group or outside of the Majority of society.
Just more political correctness run amok
JuanCarlos
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No, I do it privately not because it's PC but because the rules of this forum don't allow it in-thread. Because doing so just gets threads locked, or just gets the mods mad at me. As I've said before, if I could respond to your posts while at the same time being explicit about just how ignorant I think you are, I'd do so.
On other forums I frequent when somebody says something especially stupid (like the Muslim example below) they are ruthlessly criticized, ostracized, and eventually made to feel unwelcome for thinking that genocide is a good idea. Here we just lock the thread and say topics like that should probably be avoided, so we have an excuse to keep the ignorant around.
Well, and this could be my nasty liberal upbringing, but I think there's a difference between saying (for instance) that gay marriage should be legal (used as example, not for debate! start a thread if you want to discuss it!) is a little different from (for instance) saying that we should just go ahead and kill all the Muslims (and "let their God sort them out") and that would solve our problem.
Last I checked my stance, while liberal and perhaps on the "fringe," recommends granting rights and privileges to people. His stance recommends killing them (en masse) for the color of their skin or choice of religion. Do we think Hitler was a good person here (sorry, Godwin...it applies in this case)? Did I stumble onto some kind of Stormfront offshoot forum?
And yes, somebody here actually said that...in case anybody is actually surprised. Which you shouldn't be.
Or, in this case, the implied message that all those nasty illegals are coming up to break into our houses and steal our stereos, but at least now we get to kill them. Yes, that is taking the OP to a bit of an extreme...and I don't think the OP meant for his message to be taken that far...but I think some level of that was implied in his post.
JuanCarlos
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As for Castle Doctrine (since we do have a topic here and all...sorry about that) as I said earlier, I'm a fan. But a good point has been brought up here (and I've brought it up with others before) that it could theoretically be used to get away with murder, since it increases the burden of proof for a murder you commit in your home such that it seems (to me at least) that it'd be nearly impossible to effectively prosecute.
No, I don't think this is something that will be a common problem, and yes I think the benefits outweigh any theoretical drawbacks. But I've never seen a serious explanation, founded in either logic or understanding of the law (and I admit that mine is not the best), as to why this isn't an issue. It's either joked about or dismissed.
No, I don't think this is something that will be a common problem, and yes I think the benefits outweigh any theoretical drawbacks. But I've never seen a serious explanation, founded in either logic or understanding of the law (and I admit that mine is not the best), as to why this isn't an issue. It's either joked about or dismissed.
JuanCarlos
New member
I guess I should have used "civil liberties" in order to avoid pedantry. My bad.
Or perhaps "granting people who have harmed nobody else the same privileges that I enjoy." That one is a liberal [EDIT: or libertarian, who are often socially liberal] thing, from what I've seen.
Either way, I think we had a thread for that if you want to take it farther.
Also, we have another Castle Doctrine thread that isn't doomed to failure, so I'm going to do ahead and cross-post my on-topic post there and I suggest anybody interested in talking about CD head that-a-way.
I have no problem saying it in public. I think your a whiner and an idiot and if you don't like this country go back where you came from and spew your liberal crap there. From what I see there aren't too many liberal folk here. Very few people these days are the least bit sympathetic about illegals
and or Muslims in America. Have you forgotten 911 ? Try complaining to them in there country and see what happens. They would string you up in a minute and you know it. Why don't you stop all the whining and go help out Obama or Hillary. I'm sure they would welcome you you with open arms. I see what you say on this forum and from what I see all you basically do is bash people like me who's opinion is different than your or a little to much eye for an eye mentality. And then you and your buddy's ridicule them and whine. This isn't high school. Grow up
JuanCarlos
New member
Well, I'm a eighth Native American...and my European ancestors came over in the 19th Century. So I think "where I came from" would be here.
NEVAR FORGET!!!1!!1!
Newsflash, did a tour in Iraq and the little buggers there tried to kill me. Multiple times. Still doesn't change my opinion.
So we should judge our standards against those of third-world fundamentalist regimes? Makes perfect sense.
Okay, direction question. "Kill 'em all and let their God sort them out." Reasonable statement regarding Muslims?
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OK Then I will re phrase that to what planet then.
I don't care what you race is. I don't care if you are a kangaroo. I don't care what country you come from. I don't care what color you are either.
My problem with guys like you is that you think your smarter than everyone else. And you try to be politically correct just to show us knuckle draggers how apolitically correct we are. Thank you for helping me oh superior one . I don't know how I get through the day without you and those like you to show the way. That said, I stand by my earlier statement.
Good day sir
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Playboypenguin
Moderator
Rem33,
Can you actually say that someone being "pc" and taking a liberal stance on topics is somehow on the same level as someone implying that they are going to have to shoot some Mexicans or statements of religious intolerence?????
I think most people can agree that promoting violence against someone because of their race or religion is wrong and that statements that do so directly or imply such are also offensive and wrong.
I do not think most people would agree that it is equally as offensive for a bigot to have to hear the opposite position of not doing this just because it disgrees with their own personal stance.
One circumstances is an undeserved attack upon innocents. The other is simply someone getting their nose out of joint because their own person prejudices are not being supported.
Can you actually say that someone being "pc" and taking a liberal stance on topics is somehow on the same level as someone implying that they are going to have to shoot some Mexicans or statements of religious intolerence?????
I think most people can agree that promoting violence against someone because of their race or religion is wrong and that statements that do so directly or imply such are also offensive and wrong.
I do not think most people would agree that it is equally as offensive for a bigot to have to hear the opposite position of not doing this just because it disgrees with their own personal stance.
One circumstances is an undeserved attack upon innocents. The other is simply someone getting their nose out of joint because their own person prejudices are not being supported.
From the OP
I think this was taken out of context and then ran with an agenda attached. I don't think he ever said he wanted to shoot anyone. It may have could been stated better but it wasn't all that bad either.
Playboy,
See what I was getting at from your above statement? it was taken farther than meant IMO..
I just got home and turned the news on eating lunch. One story was the illegal criminal element being rounded up and deported. I think " Sleeping better at night " is a long way from " wanting to shoot Mexicans"
See what I mean.
Someones feathers musta got ruffled a bit and it went from there. I understood the OP quite differently..
Not to Playboy but everyone,
The " shoot em all let God sort em out" I took as a joke maybe a bad one but a joke none the less. I have seen that sort of stuff on Tee's at gun shows. Never saw anyone wearing one but they were for sale.
I have seen idiots wearing shirts that said "mean people suck and nice people......." In a public Dept. store.. I couldn't believe it but there it was on a woman. I guess I am trying to say some folks make a bad joke ( here) and some are completely without class too.
I think this was taken out of context and then ran with an agenda attached. I don't think he ever said he wanted to shoot anyone. It may have could been stated better but it wasn't all that bad either.
Playboy,
See what I was getting at from your above statement? it was taken farther than meant IMO..
I just got home and turned the news on eating lunch. One story was the illegal criminal element being rounded up and deported. I think " Sleeping better at night " is a long way from " wanting to shoot Mexicans"
See what I mean.
Someones feathers musta got ruffled a bit and it went from there. I understood the OP quite differently..
Not to Playboy but everyone,
The " shoot em all let God sort em out" I took as a joke maybe a bad one but a joke none the less. I have seen that sort of stuff on Tee's at gun shows. Never saw anyone wearing one but they were for sale.
I have seen idiots wearing shirts that said "mean people suck and nice people......." In a public Dept. store.. I couldn't believe it but there it was on a woman. I guess I am trying to say some folks make a bad joke ( here) and some are completely without class too.
JuanCarlos
New member
Perhaps you took it as a joke, but combined with the "let them move back where they came from so we can turn it into a parking lot" comment (in the same post) and the general attitude of the poster it sounded to me more like somebody who doesn't realize such things aren't acceptable "tellin' it like it is."
Also, there is a difference between having no class (and yes, the other t-shirt you mention is tasteless) and hate speech. As for the "kill 'em all" shirts you see at gun shows, especially if we're talking about ones specifically directed at a specific group, those are no better.
When you've seen somebody you're friends with almost get the crap kicked out of him just for the color of his skin, you start to realize that things like that aren't funny...and often aren't really jokes, either.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I actually have no problem with "kill'em all and let god sort them out" t-shirts. It is obviously a joke and it says kill'em "ALL" so I am fine with it. There is no prejudice involved. Everyone is welcome and the person is an equal opportunity killer. 
Now if it said "Kill all Muslims and let them see if their faith was correct" I would have a huge problem with it. Just like a have problems with shirts that say "Fight child molestation...castrate a republican congressman."
Now if it said "Kill all Muslims and let them see if their faith was correct" I would have a huge problem with it. Just like a have problems with shirts that say "Fight child molestation...castrate a republican congressman."
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Riigghhhttt...because we all know how the church is not in the neo-con camp.
Anti-choice, anti-gay...those are real liberal and deomocrat platforms.
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