cartridge advice double standards.

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MOST hunters do not live in north carolina. just like MOST hunters do not live in Idaho. however I have seen enough of the western US, and spoken with enough sportsmen in those locations to know that long shots are a necessary skill if you want to eat meat and if you need to take a long shot you need a bullet that isn't going to drop like a rock.
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Not buying that last sentence at all, trajectory is one of the easiest things to compensate for. Wind is the toughest thing, and that is where the most benefit comes from having a high BC bullet. You can crunch the numbers all you want and there isn't any magic formula to guarantee sucess as far as foot pounds of energy and inches of bullet drop are concerned.

Being able to shoot long range is a nice skill to have but believe me it isn't necessary to be a successful hunter out here in the west. While I can bang a 10" steel target all day with boring regularity at 600 yards with a couple of my rifles, the majority of my big game has been shot at less than 250 yards. If you just learn the habits of the animals you're hunting you'll be a pretty successful hunter. I know I can shoot long range if I have too while hunting, but long range shooting isn't as fun as getting close. That is what makes me enjoy hunting the most.
 
very well. zero Junk.

308, 180gr soft point, traveling 2700 FPS, ballistic coefficient of .385 with 200 yard zero. this is the factory federal powershok load. at 400 yards velocity is 1850FPS, 1350 FTLB, and a little over 26 inches of bullet drop.

compare to the 180gr accubond from earlier at the same 2700fps muzzle and same zero. at 400 yards the AB is going 2050FPS, 1650FTLB, and has less than 24 inches of drop, flight path wise the high BC may not have a great deal of improvement in bullet drop over a decent soft point but the velocity and energy differences are still very substantial.

now lets move down to .284 as requested. using standard federal powershok loads for a 280 remington. 150gr bullet traveling at 2900 FPS, BC .415. at 400 yards, 2050FPS, 1425FTLB, bullet drop 21.5 inches.

Nosler E tip, same weight, velocity, ETC, BS 510. at 400 yards, over 2200FPS, 1625 FTLB, 20 inches bullet drop. again, significant differences in energy and velocity.

and finally with 6.5. 6.5x55mm federal power shoks, 140gr, BC .438, 2650FPS, same zero as others. at 400 yards, 1900FPS, 1125FTLBs, bullet drop 26 inches.

and with a 140gr berger VLD, BC .522. at 400 yards, 2000FPS, 1200FPS, bullet drop 24.5.

all of this is based on factory hunting ammunition and common hunting calibers. is every case the superior BC offers significantly superior velocity and energy as well as reduced bullet drop. you can try to rationalize that away all you want but for long range hunting application(whether you personally believe in it or not) BC is a major factor in bullet selection.

now about time someone steered this thread back on path... if it ever had one to begin with.
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So, by your own admission you are fussing over 2 inches or so at 400 yards.
That was my point. The gun rag writers who have to come up with something to write about have been doing this for decades for whatever latest greatest cartridge or bullet. It is trivial in the field.

And I don't know what the path of this thread was if it wasn't recommending larger cartridges over smaller ones. Like it really matters or something.
 
The reality is all North American big game, including grizzly bear, has been felled with surplus .303 British, 7x57, .30-40 Krag, and Springfield rifles long before mega-magnums were born.

I don't own a .280 Rem because I was a whole lot smarter when I took up big game hunting than I am now. Were I to start anew, I'd but a .280 Rem and never buy another rifle.

The biggest magnum that I have seen hunters shoot comfortably at benches is the 7MM Rem Mag. I've seen a studly dude get knocked back darn near a century with his brand new .300 Win Mag.
 
All the arguing aside, the biggest double standard presented on this and every other firearm forum I have ever been on is the statement that what is the best for me is the best for everyone. This does not only apply to caliber and bullets, but ethics, tactics, platform and distance of shots. Human nature dictates we think what we do is best. Our ego tells us that what we chose to use is best and that everyone should agree with us. Years ago when our circle of friends and their shooting/hunting experiences mirrored ours, it was easy to find folks that used what we used and hunted the way we did. The internet and social media has widened that circle greatly and no longer encompasses little or no diversity. While we should continue to give advice when it is asked, we need to realize that every experience out there is not our own. We should not be insulted when others do not agree, nor should we insult those that do not agree with us. The exchange of ideas and knowledge is what these forums is all about. If they were all exactly the same there would never be a need for more than one response.
 
Have read this thread with quite a bit of interest. Certainly, virtually all replies are opinions, just as this one is for sure. I go back to my first deer season in the middle 50's, I had no center fire rifle at that time. My father had a "bring back" 8X57, as did two of his brothers, Dad sent them back from Italy, another uncle had a 30/40 Krag, another a 94' Winchester in 30/30 and my grandfather had a 38/55 Winchester 73 I think. Certainly no magnums, no discussion of BC, velocity, SD, etc!! I received, on loan, from my oldest uncle, a 22 Hornet single shot, H&R I think, as it had replaceable shotgun barrel. A 4x scope attached.
The statement was very simple, " if you can't kill a deer with this rig, you are not ready to hunt"!! No joking, very straight forward. The variety of rifles that I described accounted for a lot of deer on the table. We hunted for meat, if there were antlers, well that was ok too. I guess this sounds like a rant and I don't mean it to, but all are opinions, and maybe the need "to be right" drives all the posting of statistics, which in my experience, which may be unique, are just numbers. If you want to know whatever caliber you are shooting will do at a given distance, go shoot it at that distance. Any bullet placed correctly will do the job, i.e., the 22 Hornet.
 
Double standard? at least 2x, maybe more..

If you really want to see it stand out, just look at the handgun "advice" you get on the web. And, if you an even bigger difference of opinion, look at the old advertisements and the writing of the old time gunscribes.

Some of those were laughably opinionated by today's reasoning.

What I see most blatent is the current infatuation with heavier than standard weight bullets, most particularly in magnum & big bore calibers. Seems like if you are shooting anything but a person, you need a 180gr .357 or 300gr (or heavier) .44 or .45, and everything else is implied to be useless.

I don't think this is so, but it's essentially what a lot of people post.

any deer in north america(about 250 pounds roughly)
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This made me smile. It a wonderful thing to live & hunt where the big deer live, but in a lot of the country a "big" deer goes 150lbs or less.
(I understand the point, just saying 250 is a big deer, and for a lot of places, its a giant deer)

I've been through the 60s and 70s discussion about magnum rifle rounds, how their power give such an advantage, etc., and the other side of the coin, how so few people could actually use the advantages, how people using too much gun was actually reducing their ability to hit...(there's lots more....)


This or that is too much, or isn't enough...hear it all the time.
And, its ALL true. For someone, somewhere, sometime...

Very little is true for everyone, everywhere, all the time...

The guy that buys a .338 OMG whatakik, shoots it 6 times, and takes it out after 90lb swamp deer because someone on the Internet told them its what they needed, isn't doing anyone a favor (including the deer) other than providing a customer for gun and ammo companies, and a license fee for the state.
 
It's hot out here, so it gets down to T shirts pretty quick. If you can shoot it in a t-shirt and tolerate the recoil, you probably don't have too much gun. A Ruger M77 in 300 Win mag spanked me pretty good by round 17, whereas I can shoot .30-06 all afternoon, particularly loaded with 130gr. for p-dogs. Comfort counts when you are reaching out.
 
This or that is too much, or isn't enough...hear it all the time.
And, its ALL true. For someone, somewhere, sometime...
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Yeah. I have a lot more faith in the average hunter to figure out what he needs than most people on the internet do apparently. And, there is a pretty good list of cartridges that I could draw out of a hat and be about as happy with one as the other. I have killed a pretty good bunch of deer and a few elk and I don't recall a situation where any of the usual suspects would not have done the same job.

I would suggest a man pick a cartridge that he likes, rely on his best judgment, and not spend a lot of time trying to get some consensus that he made the right choice.
 
IMHO, people can't shoot. Except all of us here:). Next time you are at a crowded range, swing your spotting scope down the target line and see how many can keep 6" patterns. I think it's because very few shoot very often, and jerk the trigger and flinch due to recoil. I was the same way, until I got a past magnum recoil pad for bench shooting. ( couple of hundred deer rifle rounds a day hurts) Once recoil was out of the picture, I found out how good my rifles would shoot. Used to shoot a lot more than I do now, spent a couple of days a month at the range with several rifles (.243 thru 300 win mag). I helped many a fellow shooter find out there was nothing wrong with his rifle, it was him flinching.
All that being said, a bullet thru the boiler room in any caliber will get the job done. So any caliber you want to use is good with me. Just do whatever it takes to learn to shoot it well. I have had most deer shot in the chest with a .243 drop right there, while several have ran a short distance with the same shot with a .300 winmag. Does that make the .243 better? No, it just means individual animals will react differently to being shot.
 
The reality is all North American big game, including grizzly bear, has been felled with surplus .303 British, 7x57, .30-40 Krag, and Springfield rifles long before mega-magnums were born.

Or before the current crop of you-beaut, controlled-expansion, monolithic-this-or-that-or-the-other projectiles came along.

This is why I'm not going to agonise over whether my rifle/cartridge platform has the ability to get it done on the day - I know it does, almost regardless of which contemporary hunting projectile of the appropriate weight I stick in the cartridge mouth, because it's what people around my neck of the woods have been using for decades, with great success. The thing I agonise over is whether I'll be good enough on the day to make that rifle/cartridge platform work when ol' Bullwinkle hoves into view and the heart starts pounding and the hands start shaking... So on that note, I'll end with this prayer: will this cold weather please go away, so I can finish my load workup and get to the important business of practising my offhand shooting?
 
Quite honestly, I don't think it would matter much (within reason) what relatively modern caliber I hunted Texas deer with. I could make do with a 223, or my old 35 Rem, or a 250 Savage. Lately I've downgraded from my 270 to a 260. I might not want to go with a 25-20, but I'd get by. A good hunter doesn't need much.
 
The reality is all North American big game, including grizzly bear, has been felled with surplus .303 British, 7x57, .30-40 Krag, and Springfield rifles long before mega-magnums were born.
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Heck, before that they were killed with patched lead round balls from muzzle loading rifles.
 
We used to ride around in T Models also, get water out of the well with a bucket, wipe with corn cobs .... Which, of course, you can still do if you like.
 
We used to ride around in T Models also, get water out of the well with a bucket, wipe with corn cobs .... Which, of course, you can still do if you like.
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The point was, you don't need the newest, biggest magnum cartridge to kill any game animal. Try to keep up.
 
The point was, you don't need the newest, biggest magnum cartridge to kill any game animal. Try to keep up.
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I'll try to keep up. But, I think I would use the corn cob before I tried to kill a grizzly with a patch and ball.

But seriously, I know what you are saying. If somebody wants a suggestion on a deer rifle I tell them it is hard to beat a 270 Win. If they add elk to it I suggest a 30-06 for a heavier bullet. I have seen nothing over the years to make that a bad idea.

Now, if the '06 recoil is not a problem foe them and they want to shoot something bigger I am just not going to put them down over it.
 
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