Carrying without a holster

[MLeake]

K_Mac, I could not keep my current job with a misdemeanor firearms conviction. This is why I do not see it as "just a misdemeanor," and why I do not think the sergeant will accept any plea that comes with a conviction.

People seem to think a misdemeanor is only a slap on the wrist. This is not true.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Since there have been many gun owners, over the years, for whom holster-less carry was normal, IMO you can't establish recklessness simply because you (and I) think holster-less is a bad idea.

To me, it appears you are trying to take a more general practice that can be done safely or with significantly less risk (carrying a handgun without a holster) and conflate it with a practice that is almost impossible to do safely (carrying a cocked and loaded constant action handgun with no holster or device to block access to the trigger). I don't know if you are doing it intentionally, unintentionally or just don't understand why that is an important difference in this case.

I don't think you'll find that most gun owners regard the holsterless carry of cocked and loaded safe-action pistols as normal. And even if they did, it is still an unsafe practice, regardless of how many people do it. I think JohnKSA outlined why very well.

 

[TX_QtPi]

k, been following this one since it started.
I highly doubt the officer went out with the intent of this happening.
Did it happen? Yes. Speculation aside it was negligence on his part.

Having worked in a few DOJ & DOD offices I have met some gun handling cocky LEOs. One got EXTREMELY offended when I asked him not to throw around the bag he had his service weapon in.

He said it was IMPOSSIBLE for it to miss fire. A few weeks later he had a misfire at the range when he "forgot" about the chambered round pulled the clip and dropped the safety on what he thought was an empty weapon.

It's not the exact scenario but JMO, if it's exposed to other things around it (such as in his bag) or out of a holster where it can snag or an accidental trigger pull can occur it's a bad idea.

Not sure who posted earlier but they mentioned a pocket carry which I would say is not as bad, because your pocket "becomes the holster" but like it was also said on here it's too easy to forget about the house key you had in your pocket or to drop that pen in your hand in there along with it...

My basic premise is, carrying with out a holster (especially if it's a trigger action safety or no safety set up) is a lot like screwing without a condom, sure it feels good, but it is careless and you better be able to deal with the consequences....

 

[MLeake]

Again, there is basic negligence and there is criminal negligence. You want to talk conflation...

Meanwhile, bearing in mind that many cops are not gun guys, how many of us grew up watching Magnum PI rack his 1911, then tuck it in the back of his waistband?

I stopped carrying a 1911 in one shoulder holster I had, because I found that the thumb safety would get clicked off sometimes during carry. Yet some posters to this thread seem to think a 1911 is ok for Mexican carry.

Pocket carry, meanwhile, could be pants or coat. It can allow for dropping of the weapon, and foreign object intrusion.

Meanwhile, JohnKSA says a holster must guard the trigger. Yet a lot of revolver guys use Threepersons type holsters, that wholly expose the trigger. And DeSantis just introduced a pocket holster that leaves a hole over the trigger guard, and another over the grip, so the gun can be shot from the pocket...

Make the guy pay for the floor. Make the guy pay for the woman's doctor visit. Slap him with a fine, pull his gun privileges pending remedial training, and put a note in his file at the department. That is all fine. Why, exactly, do we need to give the guy a criminal record?

Edit: this would be a great opportunity for the department to put out an order that all handguns shall be carried in some kind of holster, if they already haven't; for Wisconsin to stipulate holsters for CCW, if it hasn't; and for the sergeant to be assigned to give lectures about not being a bonehead. Those are all more appropriate than criminal action.

 

[jimbob86]

Why, exactly, do we need to give the guy a criminal record?

Go back and look at the local prosecution records: if Joe Sixpack gets charged for a public ND, then Officer Sixpack should be charged also.

If, OTH, Joe Sixpack get scolded to not do it again, then the same goes for Officer Sixpack.

What is Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander.

 

[MLeake]

Wisconsin just passed concealed carry this year. From what I understand, people generally did not make much use of open carry. IE there probably isn't much precedent. I do agree there should not be a double standard, but I would have the same opinion if the bonehead had been a civilian CCW.