Carrying without a holster

I do not believe this man should be hung out to dry,,,

By that I do not think he should be charged with a felony,,,
He had no intent to harm and wasn't under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

But if I read the article correctly his charge would be a misdemeanor,,,
And in his state a misdemeanor would not disqualify him from serving as a police officer.

If any one of us would have done the same thing,,,
We would be facing prosecution for that same misdemeanor charge.

If any of you are thinking he should get preferential treatment,,,
Simply because he is a police officer,,,
Shame on you I say!

He made a poor decision to waistband carry,,,
His poor decision facilitated the negligent discharge,,,
The man dropped his handgun and it went off in a public venue,,,
The fact that he is an experienced officer makes it even more negligent.

No matter how slightly, a person was injured,,,
He can stand up and say he is sincerely sorry all day long,,,
In his career how many times has he charged people who expressed sincere regret.

I won't try to make the old argument that police officers need to be held to a higher standard,,,
But I will make the argument that they need to be held to the same standard,,,
Again I say, if any of we citizens had the same misfortune,,,
We would be charged with no questions asked.

Either charge him or never charge any other citizen for the same occurrence.

Aarond
 
I'm trying to figure out what kind of fashion statement he was trying to make wearing pants so baggy that a full size duty gun could fall down them ......
 
And yet you could fail to maintain adequate following distance on a wet road, fail to get enough traction, and rear-end a stopped car - yet not draw criminal charges unless the state decided you weren't only too close, but reckless. Drivers kill people in preventable accidents, and get reamed in civil court, yet typically they do not face criminal records or jail times.

Was the guy stupid? Sure.

Do I carry in that manner, or recommend carry in that manner? No.

And yet I feel we as a nation tend to overcharge and/or criminalize way too many things. This is especially true when guns are involved.

And no, I am not for cutting him a break because he is a cop. If anything, I would hold him to a higher standard in a civil suit.
 
How to make a 642 or 442 trigger cycle in holster-less pocket carry:

Forget a house or car key in that pocket, then insert gun. That'll do it. This is why I use pocket holsters - and try not to ever put anything else in that pocket.

Make any DA trigger cycle: snag a windbreaker drawstring on the trigger while holstering; or loose shirttail material.

We had another TFL guy post about a discharge due to worn holster leather snagging his trigger when he holstered.

Some folks might want to get off the high horse long enough to consider that someday it might be them, remote though the possibility may seem, that screws up.

At that point, their take on what should constitute a crime may have a sudden shift...
 
At that point, their take on what should constitute a crime may have a sudden shift...
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My take is, and will continue to be, that Mexican carrying a condition 1 "safe-action" style pistol with no manual safeties is negligent. If you are a 25+ year veteran and a police supervisor, I just cannot fathom how you could not know this was not an acceptable practice.

Had there been some compelling reason to take that risk - a possible robbery in progress for example, I could cut the guy some slack. As it is, it looks like he just engaged in a stupid practice that not so long ago killed a father in front of his children. If he gets a misdemeanor out of it, that is really a long way from the worst outcome of what he did.

Drivers kill people in preventable accidents, and get reamed in civil court, yet typically they do not face criminal records or jail times.
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Drivers in non-injury accidents routinely receive Class-C misdemeanors here in Texas (tickets/fines). If you injure or kill someone, you can not only be charged with higher level offenses, you can be arrested right there on the spot and taken to jail. I don't know where you are at; but I'm betting that drivers that kill or injure people end up with criminal records there too.
 
Drivers in Florida and Georgia only seem to draw criminal charges when: intoxicated; racing; traveling at speeds defined by statute as reckless; running red lights; or if they leave the scene.

A driver in FL put my dad in the hospital with damaged disks in his neck and back via an unsafe merge onto I-4. He then left the scene. A Samaritan followed the guy, who exited, re-entered opposite direction, and was pulled over by FHP while rubber-necking. Because he was stopped adjacent to the scene, he was not even charged with leaving...
 
And yet you could fail to maintain adequate following distance on a wet road, fail to get enough traction, and rear-end a stopped car - yet not draw criminal charges unless the state decided you weren't only too close, but reckless. Drivers kill people in preventable accidents, and get reamed in civil court, yet typically they do not face criminal records or jail times.
Click to expand...

In this example the driver doing the rear-ending would be cited for too fast for conditions, failure to have his vehicle under proper control, or some similar charge. He would be fined accordingly; and, if someone was killed or injured and there was any evidence of recklessness or negligence he would be charged accordingly.

And yet I feel we as a nation tend to overcharge and/or criminalize way too many things. This is especially true when guns are involved.
Click to expand...

MLeake I agree that the guy was stupid. While we would probably agree on many of the things Government should stay out of, carrying a weapon in a way that puts others at risk is reckless. When guns are involved we have have the responsibility of doing everything right. When we don't we endanger ourselves and others, and we give the knotheads in Government reason to clamor for more control. Peace.
 
How to make a 642 or 442 trigger cycle in holster-less pocket carry:

Forget a house or car key in that pocket, then insert gun. That'll do it.
Click to expand...


I have more then one pocket. One is just for my 642. I have other pockets for the other junk.

I started the pocket carry when I was in LE. That was Anchorage and being Alaska, it got nippy in spots. We had Parka's and even though they had a zipper side to get to the gun, everthing hung up. So I started carrying a snubby in my parka pocket. (nothing else in that pocket). I figured it worse came to worse I could shoot from the pocket and if I felt the need, I kept my hand in my pocket. No one knew I was "ready". No one saw the revolver.

The same thing, only now its my pants pocket. Nothing to hang up on, and nothing to catch the trigger.

I don't ask others to do this, but I've been doing it for nearly 40 years and ain't shot my self yet.
 
Some folks might want to get off the high horse long enough to consider that someday it might be them, remote though the possibility may seem, that screws up.

At that point, their take on what should constitute a crime may have a sudden shift...
Click to expand...

So what is your point? If I negligently discharge a weapon at the mall I will accept the consequences.

I am not advocating jail time for the good Sergeant. A fine and disciplinary action seems reasonable to me.
 
A misdemeanor carries the potential for up to one year of jail time in most states; in some states, it could be up to three years in jail.

This is different from a fine or disciplinary action, don't you think?

If Wisconsin wanted to suspend his CCW, or his department wanted to put him on rubber gun duty pending remedial training, that wouldn't bother me. Misdemeanor charges are excessive.
 
Would a year, or even three in jail be excessive if someone had been killed? Yes, in this circumstance that would be excessive, and that is why there is flexibility in the system. I understand you're not happy with the system, and sometimes I'm not either, but until something better is found I'll take my chances with this one.:cool:
 
This is an excellent example of why pistols need manual safeties and why the 1911 is still the safest one out there after 100-years of use.

Moral: if you carry a pistol that doesn't have a manual safety, carry it in a secure holster. Revolvers are safer due to ther heavier trigger and passive safeties, but you still have to be careful w/ them.

DVC
 
^ HK P7 is safer than a 1911 or BHP, IMO.

I had a Colt Mustang and my wife's purse had a pocket that fit it perfectly, I packed it for her for a business trip - loaded it and put the safety on and zipped it in it's pocket, when she came back I took it out of the pocket and the manual safety was off - flipped down.

It didn't discharge, but it was a lesson to me that even though that purse compartment fit the Mustang perfectly - the gun needed a holster.
 
Protect your dick wear a mic.

Perfect holster for this type of pistol with this type of carry.

This guy overlooked something when he walked out the door with a gun that operates the way it does, carrying the way he was.

Just a good thing no one was seriously injured.

This guys superiors should give him a wood gun like on The Other Guys.
 
Can one of the posters who pocket carries without a holster explain why? A Nemesis pocket holster costs less than $20, it breaks up the outline of the gun, it protects the trigger, as well as most of the rest of the gun, it keeps the gun oriented in the proper direction for drawing, and it keeps your pockets from wearing out.
 
Can one of the posters who pocket carries without a holster explain why? A Nemesis pocket holster costs less than $20, it breaks up the outline of the gun, it protects the trigger, as well as most of the rest of the gun, it keeps the gun oriented in the proper direction for drawing, and it keeps your pockets from wearing out.
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I can't speak for others. I tried pocket holsters and never found one that suited me. It created more bulk, and looked like something weird.

I carry my 642 in my pocket (without anything else) and it looks no more bulky then my keys, pocket knife, and pocket watch in my other pocket. In fact if you notice it at all, just looks like junk like the other pocket.

I have had a problem with it "shifting" The always sets the same way where when I put my hand in my pocket, I get the grip.

Its fast too, faster then any holster I've tried. I can get it out pretty quick. I don't draw or use it on public ranges, I only shoot it in my back yard range, just in case some one gets nervous.

If I diside to shoot a match with my 642 I use a belt holster.

The only problem I've had in the last, almost 40 years, with this method is, a couple times while in the shower my wife forgets and grabs my pants and heads toward the washing machine without checking the pockets. Now she pretty much leaves my pants alone until I empty the pockets and toss them in the hamper.

When I use holsters I've found them inconvient, taking them off in the evening 'n such. My pocket revolver is always with me, I hang my pants on the beadpost at night keeping it handy.

Not saying pocket carry is for everyone, it just the way I do it.

OH by the way. I was at our club meeting tonight and someone had a Glock. I dry fired it a bit and its not quite like my 642. I would never carry a glock without a holster. The trigger is a bit different, not even considering the size.
 
I don't ask others to do this, but I've been doing it for nearly 40 years and ain't shot my self yet.
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I bet Sgt. Shotdafloor said something similar...."I been dong this 25 years and I ain't shot myself yet."

By the Grace of God, sez me.


"Yet."

Maybe you won't ever have an ND. kraigwy..... but you go touting your ability to carry sans holster and someone a bit less ..... "disciplined" ...... about keeping a pocket just for the gun will read that and say, "Kraigwy can do it- hell, he makes his own guns, he must kow what he's talkin' about.... and now we have some newb that thought he was an aspiring Kraigwy and was really just another Plaxico...... only the foot he puts a bullet through is as likely to be some bystander's as it is his own...... it ain't smart, so don't condone it.
 
My grandfather carried for 66 years in the pocket with out a holster and never had any problems. He said he did not like how the holsters felt. He has now passed so I guess it is possible to not use a holster and never have an accident.

I carried for 11 years with out a holster and no incidents. It wasn't until I got a holster (as advised by this forum and my wife) that I ever had a problem. The stiff leather did not allow my shirt to move away from the gun when re-holstering it and the gun went off, Fortunately I was on my own land and no one got hurt (other than my pride).

I have switched holsters
 
I don't see the big deal of carrying without a holster - so long as the gun is appropriate for the clothing you are wearing. I might have an objection if someone attempts to carry a Desert Eagle in the pocket of his jogging shorts.:eek:
 
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