I would go armed as long as it is only a trespass violation if refusing to leave. No federal buildings or schools, ect... When my business was complete, I would ask to speak to the manager, and tell them I am a law abiding citizen observing my rights. I have done no harm, and asked them if a criminal with ill intent would give them the same consideration? I would then tell them I have no intention to return to this business until the restriction on law abiding citizens is lifted.
Carrying where not allowed
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Wildalaska
Industrial Strength Remote Paper Hole Punches
And primarily are used for putting holes in paper at a distance; with the occasional dandelion and odd tin can.
To the OP:
I follow the letter of the law; even though I would rather follow the spirit of the law, really have no desire to see the inside of a prison cell... for any reason... ever. Fortunately, almost everywhere that I go it really has not been a problem. Alaska's ACHP (concealed carry permit - which is NOT required to CC or OC in the state) is recognized by many of the lower 49; realize that all of the other states are "lower" from here.
In primary function my pistols are merely:
Industrial Strength Remote Paper Hole Punches
And primarily are used for putting holes in paper at a distance; with the occasional dandelion and odd tin can.
To the OP:
I follow the letter of the law; even though I would rather follow the spirit of the law, really have no desire to see the inside of a prison cell... for any reason... ever. Fortunately, almost everywhere that I go it really has not been a problem. Alaska's ACHP (concealed carry permit - which is NOT required to CC or OC in the state) is recognized by many of the lower 49; realize that all of the other states are "lower" from here.
Now that really depends on where one lives and how one defines society. I would venture to guess that rural Alaska compared to say San Francisco might show a bit of a difference in attitude regarding firearms/handguns. Not to forget the Supreme Court's more recent "interpretation of the 2nd Amendment".
Here in IL it is illegal to carry anywhere, but my guess is that there are a fair number of people who are not criminals but carry for self/family protection. One has to weigh all the factors in deciding how much risk to take with the law versus how secure one feels themselves to be. When running late for an appointment, I might chose to take the risk of getting a speeding ticket and ride 10-15 above the limit, but even if late I would not likely drive 30-40 over the limit due to the higher risk of being stopped and the larger fine likely to be imposed. Also, how do you handle carrying legally where you live, then coming to the front door of a restaurant and seeing a "No Guns" sign? Do you return to your car, put the gun in the glove box and return to the restaurant? Do you pick a different restaurant? Or do you just walk in and hope you have no need to expose your weapon?
Not many people that is used to carrying every day, that hasn't went where there they were off limits to carrying. When I went to be fingerprinted, I was taken up in the County Jail for fingerprints. They were short of jail space, and a jailbird was in the cell where they had the fingerprint setup. While getting my fingerprints taken, I realized I had a belt knife on, in a jail cell, with a inmate. 
Wildalaska
Moderator
So are mine in my use. However, in view of the historical evolution of firearms and their psychological implications to non firearms owners (and to many owners too, read this Board), they are a means of killing and that is their primary functionality.
Unlike cars, tools etc.
WilditsjustafacttorecognizewhenspecioussoundbitesaretossedoutAlaska ™©2002-2011
I absolutely do not carry in places where it is illegal - post offices, schools, courthouses, etc.
My state statutes do not make any provisions for signage prohibiting firearms, however, so carry in those locations is only illegal if my concealment fails, the firearm is recognized, I am asked to leave, and I refuse. It is my job to allow neither the first nor the last events in that chain to occur.
In practice, I recently saw a little tiny sign off to the side of the entrance to a movie theater which I have patronized many times. I chose to ignore it, since my car was quite a ways away and I knew my concealment was good. Further, the sign was hardly prominent; I can't count the number of times I must have walked past it without noticing it. I watched the movie, because I paid for it before I saw the sign. If I was asked to leave, I would have. And in the future, I will go to a different movie theater. As many on TFL have said, if they don't want the business of people concerned with personal security, I won't impose my money on them against their wishes.
My state statutes do not make any provisions for signage prohibiting firearms, however, so carry in those locations is only illegal if my concealment fails, the firearm is recognized, I am asked to leave, and I refuse. It is my job to allow neither the first nor the last events in that chain to occur.
In practice, I recently saw a little tiny sign off to the side of the entrance to a movie theater which I have patronized many times. I chose to ignore it, since my car was quite a ways away and I knew my concealment was good. Further, the sign was hardly prominent; I can't count the number of times I must have walked past it without noticing it. I watched the movie, because I paid for it before I saw the sign. If I was asked to leave, I would have. And in the future, I will go to a different movie theater. As many on TFL have said, if they don't want the business of people concerned with personal security, I won't impose my money on them against their wishes.
This is a great discussion for me, because my state does not yet have a CC law, but it is being signed by the Governor on Friday and will take effect soon, so I've had many of these questions...
If I sign carried the power of law with it (depending on the state), I would DEFINITELY not go. I am a law abiding citizen, for the most part.
If it was not in conflict with the law, but a mere request from the owner to not possess firearms, I would avoid this business whenever possible.
If I was in a business that had a "No Firearms" sign while a robbery occurred, I would in no way interfere with the robbery unless my life was threatened.
JGON
If I sign carried the power of law with it (depending on the state), I would DEFINITELY not go. I am a law abiding citizen, for the most part.
If it was not in conflict with the law, but a mere request from the owner to not possess firearms, I would avoid this business whenever possible.
If I was in a business that had a "No Firearms" sign while a robbery occurred, I would in no way interfere with the robbery unless my life was threatened.
JGON
flintshooter
New member
Went to Gander Mountain over the weekend and noticed the sign saying all firearms must be cased, unloaded and checked at customer service desk.
next line: Does not apply to CCW holders. First time I ever saw a sign like that. Bravo to them.
next line: Does not apply to CCW holders. First time I ever saw a sign like that. Bravo to them.
Dave Chuppa
New member
I go by what a SHERIFF in PA. said to me. "If you are carrying properly concealed, Who would know?"
I honor the signs of the business. In my view by entering I have agreed to obey their rules as I understand them. If I do not want to do so then I do not go inside.
It seems we brag about how law abiding and honorable we are as gun owners, until it is not convenient. I realize the signs do not have the weight of law, but a property owner has the right to stipulate rules for one to enter that property.
If one is so afraid to be without a gun then I guess you have to do what you will.
Regards,
Jerry
It seems we brag about how law abiding and honorable we are as gun owners, until it is not convenient. I realize the signs do not have the weight of law, but a property owner has the right to stipulate rules for one to enter that property.
If one is so afraid to be without a gun then I guess you have to do what you will.
Regards,
Jerry
Everyone is entitled to their point of view and one viewpoint does not necessarily make the opposite viewpoint wrong...just different.
As long as I am not violating any laws, my right to conceal carry is exactly that, concealed. If I do not broadcast that I have a gun, than no one has to know I have a gun. I will not give up my rights because someone has posted a sign that they do not want guns in the establishment. Keep in mind that I am not going to take out my gun to prevent that establishment from being robbed. I realize that I am no longer a LEO and I have no desire to be involved in a gun fight over someone else's money. However, if some hopped up crazy decides that the particular place I am in is ripe for the picking, to rob and to slaughter because there are no guns allowed, I will be able to protect and save my life and those of my loved ones that are accompanying me, or least go down with a fight instead of not being able to do a damn thing. Truth be known, I would probably jump in to save the life of a complete stranger if something like that were to happen. I guess what I am saying is that in order for me to expose the fact that I am carrying a gun, a situation would have to present itself where the gun was a matter of last resort.
As long as I am not violating any laws, my right to conceal carry is exactly that, concealed. If I do not broadcast that I have a gun, than no one has to know I have a gun. I will not give up my rights because someone has posted a sign that they do not want guns in the establishment. Keep in mind that I am not going to take out my gun to prevent that establishment from being robbed. I realize that I am no longer a LEO and I have no desire to be involved in a gun fight over someone else's money. However, if some hopped up crazy decides that the particular place I am in is ripe for the picking, to rob and to slaughter because there are no guns allowed, I will be able to protect and save my life and those of my loved ones that are accompanying me, or least go down with a fight instead of not being able to do a damn thing. Truth be known, I would probably jump in to save the life of a complete stranger if something like that were to happen. I guess what I am saying is that in order for me to expose the fact that I am carrying a gun, a situation would have to present itself where the gun was a matter of last resort.
Wildalaska
One might note that the prevailing use of a car is transportation, and the most common use of a wrench is manipulating nuts. Sure both can be used as lethal instruments (get a Clue... board game... I was always partial to Miss Scarlet...); however, the general usage of a wrench is not to "off" Mr. Body in the Conservatory.
Likewise, the general usage of a handgun is to put holes in pieces of paper; regardless of what folks say, I am pretty confident that far more pieces of paper have been at the receiving end of a pistol or revolver in this country than anything short of possibly cans.
While cars are used almost exclusively for moving people from A to B (even if people believe/fantasize/prepare for that they are driving an Indy car), handguns are used almost exclusively for putting holes in paper (even if...).
One might note that the prevailing use of a car is transportation, and the most common use of a wrench is manipulating nuts. Sure both can be used as lethal instruments (get a Clue... board game... I was always partial to Miss Scarlet...); however, the general usage of a wrench is not to "off" Mr. Body in the Conservatory.
Likewise, the general usage of a handgun is to put holes in pieces of paper; regardless of what folks say, I am pretty confident that far more pieces of paper have been at the receiving end of a pistol or revolver in this country than anything short of possibly cans.
While cars are used almost exclusively for moving people from A to B (even if people believe/fantasize/prepare for that they are driving an Indy car), handguns are used almost exclusively for putting holes in paper (even if...).
If it is well secured with metal detectors then no. If it is a place I have to go, like the Post Office then yes. If it is a business that I don't have to go, that is posted, like a restaurant. They don't want my money, or it wouldn't be posted, and they don't get my business.
shootniron
New member
mnhntr,
You do understand that carrying in a United States Post Office violates a Federal law...
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LockedBreech
New member
An interesting question, and one that I was thinking of posting myself. First, right off the bat, I don't carry where it's illegal. I am a law student with no juvenile or adult criminal record, not even a traffic ticket. That's too valuable to me to risk.
I have, however, risked my job, several times.
When I worked at a [Prominent Hotel Chain], I worked the 11PM-7AM shift. Our hotel did not have locking exterior doors and the town I worked in had a major meth problem. I would get 2-3 junkies a night wandering around my hotel, and police response usually took 5-10 minutes. Unwilling to die doing my summer job, I carried a Beretta 21A Bobcat in .22LR and it made me feel a lot better. Looking back, dreadful carry choice, that thing jammed every other round with the cheapo brick ammo in it, but any gun is better than none.
Since then, working two different summer jobs, I have concealed my Ruger LCP with an extra magazine. I'm simply not willing to risk my life for wage labor to pay for textbooks.
Now...will I continue to do so if banned at the law firm where I eventually find work? Almost certainly not. The money, benefits, and risks there are all much greater. However, regardless of ANY rule or regulation, I will ALWAYS keep a large, trusted, reliable double-stack handgun with an extra magazine in my car. They may be able to prevent me from being safe on foot, but I will now that if I make it to my car, I'll be okay. Right now, for instance, I work with both the LCP in a pocket and a Beretta PX4 with two mags for 29 rounds of Federal HST in my car. I will not be made helpless at 11PM in the parking lot.
I realize keeping one in the car is generally a bad idea due to theft, but this parking lot is video-monitored and heavily-trafficked, so the likelihood of that is small. It is also ONLY in the car during work hours.
I have, however, risked my job, several times.
When I worked at a [Prominent Hotel Chain], I worked the 11PM-7AM shift. Our hotel did not have locking exterior doors and the town I worked in had a major meth problem. I would get 2-3 junkies a night wandering around my hotel, and police response usually took 5-10 minutes. Unwilling to die doing my summer job, I carried a Beretta 21A Bobcat in .22LR and it made me feel a lot better. Looking back, dreadful carry choice, that thing jammed every other round with the cheapo brick ammo in it, but any gun is better than none.
Since then, working two different summer jobs, I have concealed my Ruger LCP with an extra magazine. I'm simply not willing to risk my life for wage labor to pay for textbooks.
Now...will I continue to do so if banned at the law firm where I eventually find work? Almost certainly not. The money, benefits, and risks there are all much greater. However, regardless of ANY rule or regulation, I will ALWAYS keep a large, trusted, reliable double-stack handgun with an extra magazine in my car. They may be able to prevent me from being safe on foot, but I will now that if I make it to my car, I'll be okay. Right now, for instance, I work with both the LCP in a pocket and a Beretta PX4 with two mags for 29 rounds of Federal HST in my car. I will not be made helpless at 11PM in the parking lot.
I realize keeping one in the car is generally a bad idea due to theft, but this parking lot is video-monitored and heavily-trafficked, so the likelihood of that is small. It is also ONLY in the car during work hours.
Double Naught Spy
New member
In my business, I do not have to allow you to conduct an election or a vote. I do not have to allow you free speech. I do not have to allow you to operate a press, hold church services, or any other nonsense you might want to do because you think that because you are out in public on my property that my rights as a property owner cease to exist. I do not have to allow you to be able to carry musical instruments or weapons. I may grant any of these things, but until which time there is a law stating that I must allow concealed carry of a firearm in my business, I do not have to do so.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Not to put too fine a point on it, but ... how do you define "criminal"? To me, a criminal is someone who intentionally breaks the law. Therefore, anyone who carries a concealed firearm in a state where doing so is not legal is, by definition, a criminal.vito said:
Take another example, from the liberals' playbook: What;'s your view of all those millions of hard-working, "undocumented immigrants" who are doing all the work Americans don't want to do? Their advocates would have us believe that they are hard-working, law-abiding people. IMHO, they are "criminals." The simple act of being here is a criminal act. What else can they rightfully be called?
What else can someone who intentionally violates any law be called?
If i did that in VA I'd lose my permit and face charges. If I did at work, I'd lose my job, face charges and pretty much screw myself out of the job market as well. The bad guy ignores the sign isn't much of a valid point to me because in the eyes of the court we'd both be crimminals in this state.
Even if it wasn't I still wouldn't do it. If I expect people to respect my right to carry, I have to respect their private property. No one is forcing me onto that property...I can go someplace else.
Even if it wasn't I still wouldn't do it. If I expect people to respect my right to carry, I have to respect their private property. No one is forcing me onto that property...I can go someplace else.
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Double Naught Spy
New member
Well, outside of their criminal activities, they aren't criminals. I think that is what he was talking about.
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