Carrying where not allowed

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ScotchMan

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I'm curious how many legal CCW holders carry in places with signs indicating firearms are not allowed. By this I mean restaurants, movie theaters, stores, etc, and not courthouses or places where it is expressly ILLEGAL to carry.

I wonder this because I see such signs in a LOT of places, and someone committed to carrying concealed would have to jump through a LOT of hoops to comply with all of them.

Please note I am not advocating either position, I am just curious what people who do carry concealed actually do.
 
Good question. I have often wondered- in a restaurant, for example, they give me a very wicked looking knife when I order a steak. Isn't that a deadly weapon, just like a firearm? I suppose that a 'firearms not allowed' sign is a business decision that is intended to make customers feel more secure, but then I wonder what happens if they call the cops- do they make the cops disarm themselves? Not likely! I can sorta-kinda see this attitude, when most restaurants for example also serve alcohol- but again, my car is a deadly weapon, and they let me booze it up. The scary part is that I also wonder if the proprietors really think a sign would stop a legitimate Bad Person from carrying in their establishment

...and the steak knife and your name reminds me I just had a lovely ribeye and a glass of the Macallan 12 for dinner. Yum.
 
I know in my state there are a lot of signs that are old and have not been updated to allow legal weapons. State preemption makes it legal to carry in parks and such, even if the local ordinances prohibit it.

So, quite often I have to carry into a park that says no firearms or no weapons allowed. There are also those tricky signs that say no "illegal" weapons allowed. Those signs tend to trick a lot of people.
 
I think a lot of restaurants and shops do it because it's easier to just hand over the register than potentially have a gunfight in their place of business. I know it's not the Dirty Harry way, but sometimes a situation might not be worth escalating to gunfire.
 
I think a lot of restaurants and shops do it because it's easier to just hand over the register than potentially have a gunfight in their place of business. I know it's not the Dirty Harry way, but sometimes a situation might not be worth escalating to gunfire.
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I believe that all businesses frown on gunplay inside their premises :) But are you talking about employee/employer policy, or place of business/patron policy?

Examples: a restaurant's sick day policy is hardly ever posted on the front door, and a diner at a restaurant would presumably not be the one handing money from the till to a robber
 
No I don't do it........

And I'll have to break up the Scotch guys, Bushmills before I go to bed tonight:)
 
I'm talking about both. Employees and patrons. Let me explain.

It takes a lot of guts to go vigilante. It doesn't however, take a lot of brains. A well-intentioned vigilante getting someone killed over a few bucks isn't something the owners and insurance companies want to see. Whether this is right or wrong is up for argument.
 
And I'll have to break up the Scotch guys, Bushmills before I go to bed tonight
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It did break me up, I was torn between laughter and tears! ;)

I'm talking about both. Employees and patrons. Let me explain.

It takes a lot of guts to go vigilante. It doesn't however, take a lot of brains. A well-intentioned vigilante getting someone killed over a few bucks isn't something the owners and insurance companies want to see. Whether this is right or wrong is up for argument.
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Understood. But wouldn't you agree that the 'vigilante type' would ignore the sign in the first place?
 
No guns, no money. With rare exceptions (ie, the post office) I don't patronize establishments that want me unarmed. In my state of residence, the no-gun signs don't carry the force of law, but I nevertheless choose not to carry in posted places - or to go in them at all.
 
hardworker

So, then what is your choice? As per the OP's request, what do you do in that situation? Assuming of course that you regularly carry anyway?

I'm just curious.

Personally, if I'm carrying, which is most of the time and I am about to enter an establishment and then see a sign "banning" them, I ignore it and go about my business. First of all, I am not a vigilante, nor do I subscribe to that general mentality. Secondly, I chose to get a carry permit for the personal protection of my family and myself. That is the intended purpose for my carrying and while I will never knowingly carry illegally, I also will not be detered by the whims of others.

You asked...I answered.
 
That's a standpoint I'll have to disagree with, hardworker . A CCW holder should be more law-abiding, in my opinion, than what we think of as a 'vigilante'

edit-

in other words, the idea behind the CCW is not to look for a chance to trade lead
 
My standpoint? I don't carry. I've been meaning to get that permit and all... but I subscribe to the viewpoint of "concealed means concealed". Since all taking a gun into such a place would get me is a trespassing ticket should I refuse to leave, I'd have no problem carrying into one.

I was not calling out gun owners or CCWers. I was only giving an opposing viewpoint and admitting that it holds water.

But I also do not think all CCWers are level headed. Not any more so than I think everyone with a driver's licence is a good driver.
 
Again agreed, but looking at say, 'drivers' for example as a group, I cannot label them good or bad- all I can do without looking at specifics is call them 'drivers' and assume that some level of judgement is used, while bearing in mind that not all of them are good

To take the driver analogy further, I believe that you see so "many" bad drivers because they stand out. You don't see the "good" drivers much because they do not draw attention to themselves- when was the last time you thought "wow, that guy used great judgement during that lane change"?

To draw the parallel with CCW holders, again I agree that realistically some percentage of them are not level headed, but drawing a conclusion in the case of the question at hand is hard, because to be objective, we would need some data on how many CCW holders were present at a robbery and didn't do anything
 
If it's private property I think the owners have a right to post whatever signs they want.

I also have the right to not do business with them.;)

If it's a public place, like a hospital or farmers market (ours is county owned) and there are no state or local laws prohibiting guns there I tend to take issue.:mad:


hardworker-
Tresspassing with a firearm is a felony in some states.
 
I am fine with your challenge to a viewpoint, especially since I believe the OP wa looking for an intelligent discussion. I also agree that your premise may be the reason why some establishments choose to post signs banning firearms from their premises. However, there are also many who do this as an idealogical statement.

So, as I said above, I follow the law, not the whims of others.

And that having been said, I truly hope that I never have the occasion to fire upon another human. Statistically, the odds are good, but odds are just that...odds. I practice and prepare so that if the occasion occurs, I'll be ready. I hope and pray that all my practice is for nothing more than the enjoyment I get out of it.

Lash
 
You won't find that data. And if you do I'd be highly suspect. Some things are almost impossible to measure objectively. Much like how I feel about the 1 shot stop stats, but that's another topic.

There's plenty of reasons why a store wouldn't allow guns. Some more logical than others. Basically what I'm trying to say is that some places would rather keep as many guns out of their store as possible and that's their right. If if it bothers you, don't go there. Or don't get caught, depending on local laws.

I just think it's silly when every store that doesn't allow guns gets labelled "anti gun pinko commie hillary voting blah blah..."

And Lashlaroe, I agree. I don't like the anti crowd any more than you do. Don't worry.
 
ScothMan said:
I'm curious how many legal CCW holders carry in places with signs indicating firearms are not allowed. By this I mean restaurants, movie theaters, stores, etc, and not courthouses or places where it is expressly ILLEGAL to carry.
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I think you need to clarify your question, because the answer will be different for different states.

Some states do not mention "No Guns Allowed" signage in their statutes. In such states, carrying a concealed weapon is not "illegal," it is only contrary to the owner's wishes. If you are spotted and asked to leave, and then refuse to leave, only then does it become illegal. (You can be arrested for trespass if you decline to leave when ordered to do so.)

Some states make provision in their statutes for signs, and (such as Texas' famous 30-06 law) go on to specify the exact wording and physical appearance of the sign. In such situations, if the sign agrees completely with the law, it is expressly illegal for you to even enter if you are carrying. If a sign is posted but does not follow the statute exactly -- it's no different from those states with no provision for signs. You can legally ignore it, but if asked to leave you must do so.

And then there are the states with laws that allow an owner to post anything -- chicken scratches on toilet paper -- and it's illegal for you to enter with a carry weapon.

My home state falls in the first category. Statute doesn't mention "No Guns Allowed" signage. Fortunately, most businesses don't seem to be aware that people have permits, because I can't recall even seeing a sign telling me I shouldn't carry. If I were to see such a sign, I would probably ignore it, since it has no legal force.

If I lived in a place where a sign had force of law, I would obey the law.
 
Where illegal to carry, I do not. Thankfully in Kentucky, there aren't a a lot of places where it is illegal to carry. While places of business can prohibt CCW, it isn't actually illegal to carry in those locations, i.e. a movie theater or Red Lobster. However, if caught, they can ask you to leave. If you don't leave, you have now broke law as a trespasser.

Places like a Court House or Post Office are illegal to carry. As I said, if it's illegal I don't do it.
 
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