Deaf Smith
New member
But neither Cain nor Abel carried a weapon. A common ROCK was used and it was picked up from the ground.
Deaf
Carrying hiking
- Thread starter C0untZer0
- Start date
But neither Cain nor Abel carried a weapon. A common ROCK was used and it was picked up from the ground.
Deaf
Doc Intrepid
New member
Of potentially greater tactical significance is the fact that if you are hiking along in a forest carrying a long gun it is immediately obvious.
If I am a badguy, you are moving while I am quietly in position to ambush you and hold you at gunpoint. The long gun I can see I will tell you to place on the ground and move back 5-10 yards. Now I have my handgun AND your long gun (and you).
If I am a badguy and want to hold you at gunpoint and you have a concealed handgun that I do not know about, I think your chances are a bit better of engaging me at some point when my attention may be distracted.
Much depends on whether you're more concerned about dealing with human badguys or with animals (and animal encounters do happen, but extremely rarely relative to the number of people hiking in national forests each year).
YMMV.
If I am a badguy, you are moving while I am quietly in position to ambush you and hold you at gunpoint. The long gun I can see I will tell you to place on the ground and move back 5-10 yards. Now I have my handgun AND your long gun (and you).
If I am a badguy and want to hold you at gunpoint and you have a concealed handgun that I do not know about, I think your chances are a bit better of engaging me at some point when my attention may be distracted.
Much depends on whether you're more concerned about dealing with human badguys or with animals (and animal encounters do happen, but extremely rarely relative to the number of people hiking in national forests each year).
YMMV.
HotShot.444
Moderator
@ 27; he "tests" your logic, and you come at us spitting??
Truth doth offend some. Sometimes. Oh, BTW, my Bushm. Carbon-15, 7" weighs in at 6#, carrying a 10-rounder, stuffed hilt-up, against my back, beneath my pack. Also carry G-30, in thigh-holster plus 28-rd mags on off side. Re #62, very good logic, but as you(BG) scurry up to grab my tosed carbine, I draw my concealed BUG and riddle you skull-to-buttocks. .444
Truth doth offend some. Sometimes. Oh, BTW, my Bushm. Carbon-15, 7" weighs in at 6#, carrying a 10-rounder, stuffed hilt-up, against my back, beneath my pack. Also carry G-30, in thigh-holster plus 28-rd mags on off side. Re #62, very good logic, but as you(BG) scurry up to grab my tosed carbine, I draw my concealed BUG and riddle you skull-to-buttocks. .444
You carry a shorty AR beneath your pack, that is between you and the pack? And carry a Glock in a thigh holster with a spare 28 round mag? Do you hike much in Somalia or some other garden spot? Where are you doing this wilderness travel? What is the threat level, how long do you stay gone etc. I am curious now. Having logged many miles all over the place, and having humped just a crap load of gear and weapons over the years I am intrigued by this set up regarding purpose, comfort, distance and so forth. Thanks.
I just wonder if you hike in Florida and don't pack a firearm what the hell are you going to do against that Gator or rabid animal? If you hike in the mountains what about the puma that hunts you pointed stick aside a wounded predator is five times as dangerous then a healthy one. Me I like my legs and life so I carry.
Mace
Happiness is a belt fed weapon with lots of ammo
Mace
Happiness is a belt fed weapon with lots of ammo
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
jhenry said:
Well said. I suspect that there are some here that haven't backpacked serious country. I spent several years as a back country ranger at Grand Canyon NP. Believe me when I tell you, when preping for trail patrol, we counted ounces, not pounds... literally. About half way through the Thunder River Trail, you'll be cussing every unnecessary ounce in your pack.
Along the Kiabab Trail, I've seen just about everything you can imagine abandoned, Coleman lanterns, stoves, and even a cast iron skillet... really!
I carried a S&W mod. 10 snubbie and one speed strip, and there were times I would've traded ten of those for one Airweight, and swapped out those 158 grain rounds for 125 grain
.For casual hiking over easy ground, I can see one carrying a lightweight long gun, but in most places, it just isn't necessary.
Another thing: In national parks, most of the trouble from bad guys occurs at or near the trailheads. Most bad guys just won't put the effort into going into serious backcountry, and most serious backpackers you run into are good folk.
But the PA Game Commission will.
We parked at one of the trail heads on the AT after work one Friday night, and walked in a little over an hour til we set up camp for the night. The next morning, two DGP's came be-bopping into camp, called my wife by name, and wanted to know if we were "camping" (Youre not allowed to "camp" in the state game lands, which is where much of the AT passes through in PA.)
They got a bit of an attitude when I got annoyed and asked them if they seriously walked all that way just to ask that. Of course, they were "very" serious (arent they always), so we got a lecture and a written warning over it. You simply try to get away from all the trivial silliness and BS of exactly this sort of thing, and still they follow you just to hound you.
Edward429451
Moderator
What a hilarious thread, and to a perfectly reasonable question too. It is now, a scoffable behavior to carry a longarm in the wilds of America. Why, you must be a Trail ninja because you can grasp the need for a (gasp) long gun hiking around. Are you guys getting all this mis-information about how you can not have a long gun except during hunting seasons?! AM I in the last Republic State? In Colorado, you can have longarms in National Forest, but not in National Parks, note the distinction. You can hike all over armed to the teeth in National Forest...except during Hunting Season they do not want you to go plinking or small gaming with big game Rifles unless you have a Big Game tag for that season. That's reasonable.
Use your head. The National Parks are where Grandma and the kiddes go for vacation, so no guns there. But in the National Forest you most certainly can carry a longarm. So did the Feds have different rules for different States National Forest? You guys crack me up.
Use your head. The National Parks are where Grandma and the kiddes go for vacation, so no guns there. But in the National Forest you most certainly can carry a longarm. So did the Feds have different rules for different States National Forest? You guys crack me up.
Depends upon the jurisdiction I'm thinking. In California Coyote are in season yer around. If you have a hunting license, a Coyote call, are dressed like a hunter, talk like a hunter I suppose when stopped by local authority and questioned you might be ok. I do not think firearms are allowed in state parks, hunting in National Parks, nor game refuges, reserves and such. You also need be attune to specific forrests. For example typically I think it is no shooting within 100 yards of roads, buildings, or camp grounds. However the Yuba River camp ground has a 500 yards restriction.
If you are hunting, I don't see a problem, and you might be hiking in 10 miles to your hunting camp.
The problem I see with lugging a rifle around without a hunting license is you might get accused of poaching. Even if you get off, it will cost you, and aggrivate you. Whether one likes it, or not it seems the days of Daniel Boone are long gone and a citizen is going to get questioned by law enforcement if spotted carrying a firearm. It seems to be just the way of the world these days.
If you are hunting, I don't see a problem, and you might be hiking in 10 miles to your hunting camp.
The problem I see with lugging a rifle around without a hunting license is you might get accused of poaching. Even if you get off, it will cost you, and aggrivate you. Whether one likes it, or not it seems the days of Daniel Boone are long gone and a citizen is going to get questioned by law enforcement if spotted carrying a firearm. It seems to be just the way of the world these days.
I think I saw a reference to hunting deer out of season in The Deerslayer by James Fenimore Cooper. But I've read the book and don't remember such a reference. There was more scalp hunting than deer hunting if I recall. But that was written after Daniel Boone had died, so you may be right about how things are changing.
Interesting thread. Particularly to a man (me) who lives in a place where bears are not that big and are seldom seen, since they are endangered and protected species. Wolves, pretty much the same. Boars will avoid contact in most cases and our vipers are not venomous enough as to be a threat to an adult.
But I guess it's quite a different tale in the US. Mountain Lions ("Pumas" we call them here, I don't know if they are also called that way over there), bears, wolves bigger than ours, 5 ft rattlers, etc... I'd definitely carry some "artillery" on me.
Question is, what kind of caliber would you need to put down one of your bears?. My bet is no less than a .357 Magnum, so..would a Desert Eagle be the right choice?
But I guess it's quite a different tale in the US. Mountain Lions ("Pumas" we call them here, I don't know if they are also called that way over there), bears, wolves bigger than ours, 5 ft rattlers, etc... I'd definitely carry some "artillery" on me.
Question is, what kind of caliber would you need to put down one of your bears?. My bet is no less than a .357 Magnum, so..would a Desert Eagle be the right choice?
Nordeste, our bears run a wide range of size.
Adult black bears can run as small as 150lbs in Florida (most animals in Florida are smaller than their other US counterparts, I'm not really sure why) to the record weight of around 800lbs in North Carolina. Most black bears are more like 300-400lbs, though, and can be found all over the US.
Brown bears and grizzly are bigger. I believe a good average for those is more in the 500-600lbs range.
Polar bears, though they are only likely to be found in a small part of one US state, can reach 1500lbs.
So, aside from the Florida bears, most US bears will require a round capable of penetrating a heavily muscled, heavy-boned creature, with a skull ideally shaped for deflecting bullets.
A round that combines good velocity with a bullet that is both heavy and constructed for penetration is the way to go.
Adult black bears can run as small as 150lbs in Florida (most animals in Florida are smaller than their other US counterparts, I'm not really sure why) to the record weight of around 800lbs in North Carolina. Most black bears are more like 300-400lbs, though, and can be found all over the US.
Brown bears and grizzly are bigger. I believe a good average for those is more in the 500-600lbs range.
Polar bears, though they are only likely to be found in a small part of one US state, can reach 1500lbs.
So, aside from the Florida bears, most US bears will require a round capable of penetrating a heavily muscled, heavy-boned creature, with a skull ideally shaped for deflecting bullets.
A round that combines good velocity with a bullet that is both heavy and constructed for penetration is the way to go.
MLeake, thank you. I've watched some Discovery and National Geographic Channel documentaries about bear attacks in the US and Canada. Browns, Grizzlies, may attack driven by their territorial instinct, but polar bear see you as prey (same happens in countries like Sweden, Finland, Norway) and people in those areas carry rifles. A fact that totally concurs with your explanations.
If it was me, with that in mind, I'd go for the biggest round possible.
PS: I think I'd wet my pants if I ever found a bear the size you say
... in the wild.
If it was me, with that in mind, I'd go for the biggest round possible.
PS: I think I'd wet my pants if I ever found a bear the size you say
... in the wild.I think their may have been misconceptions about the "trail ninja" label.
I define a trail ninja as one who totes a full size AR or AK (or similar weapon) + at least one sidearm, on a popular 3-5 mile roundtrip trail (as in the kind mom and dad take the kids to on a saturday) here in our national forest. These kinds are generally between 18 and 25 years old (not always, and I am in that age group, so noone get riled up). The kind who have more weight in ammo in their bags then water. You get the idea. (Though that description would be the absolute extreme)
Now someone who were to tote a Marlin 336 levergun on a 12 mile overnight/roundtrip that I could not see a legitimate use for unless it was their only gun, I would not call a trail ninja (just inexperienced).
I do not condemn those who may carry a long gun on or off trail that they may have a legitimate use for. Nor do I think it stupid. But anyone can play the hypothetical game long enough to load themselves up with a hundred pounds of stuff they "need".
As has already been stated. Anyone who has actually hiked 15-20 miles in day can very quickly see the gigantic flaw in carrying a long gun if you don't really need it.
I define a trail ninja as one who totes a full size AR or AK (or similar weapon) + at least one sidearm, on a popular 3-5 mile roundtrip trail (as in the kind mom and dad take the kids to on a saturday) here in our national forest. These kinds are generally between 18 and 25 years old (not always, and I am in that age group, so noone get riled up). The kind who have more weight in ammo in their bags then water. You get the idea. (Though that description would be the absolute extreme)
Now someone who were to tote a Marlin 336 levergun on a 12 mile overnight/roundtrip that I could not see a legitimate use for unless it was their only gun, I would not call a trail ninja (just inexperienced).
I do not condemn those who may carry a long gun on or off trail that they may have a legitimate use for. Nor do I think it stupid. But anyone can play the hypothetical game long enough to load themselves up with a hundred pounds of stuff they "need".
As has already been stated. Anyone who has actually hiked 15-20 miles in day can very quickly see the gigantic flaw in carrying a long gun if you don't really need it.
In some places if you have a long gun, you are considered to be hunting. If it isn't hunting season, then you are poaching the king's deer. The whole thing is problematic. Firearms were originally banned from Shenandoah Park for exactly that reason: people were hunting illegally in the park. copiedfrom first page..
Typical knee jerk reaction. I often wondered why the same logic dont apply to the interstates-there are speeders so close em down and not allow speeding.
Typical knee jerk reaction. I often wondered why the same logic dont apply to the interstates-there are speeders so close em down and not allow speeding.