imthegrumpyone
New member
99% of the time, no. Mostly depends where I"m going, usually if you can't "get r done" with what you have in your gun, you've got yourself a problem. 
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Carrying extra mags for CC pistol
- Thread starter JBBURCH
- Start date
warningshot
New member
My local street gang members like MS13, and the recently early release felons from San Quinten told me it's okay not to pack extra ammo. Heck, they said it was okay with them if I left both guns & ammo at home.
I find it humorous that people will say "I carry depending on what part of town I am going to. Does that really matter? Were the Aurora movie theater, Sikh temple or the Tucson, Ariz shootings on the bad part of town? Do criminals stay in just one area of a city or town? The answer is no. Just like business owners think hey if I put up a no gun sign criminals will not bring in a gun and rob us. It is all flawed thinking. Carry what you got, Carry everywhere you can legally and if possible carry as much ammo as you can safely carry with you. I would rather be ready for the worst and it not come. Than to have the worst happen and I am not ready at all. Paranoid people last longer because they are always watching their backs. Come Nov 1st I will be able to carry my semi and have 2 extra mags. Which means 46 to 49 bullets.
Playing the percentages, CC weapons....
I disagree with the forum member post that thinks carrying or drawing a weapon will deter/prevent an attack.
Unlike sworn LEOs(who are required to find & deal with violent subjects), armed citizens must be able to use lethal force immediately when involved in a critical incident.
LE officers draw their sidearms often but fire them very rarely. Private citizens shouldn't think they can act or resolve disputes the same way LE officers do.
Spare rounds are a smart move & knowing you may need a rapid, fluid response to a violent attack is smart too.
Thinking you won't fire a handgun or could avoid a conflict w/o using lethal force is wrong.
CF
I disagree with the forum member post that thinks carrying or drawing a weapon will deter/prevent an attack.
Unlike sworn LEOs(who are required to find & deal with violent subjects), armed citizens must be able to use lethal force immediately when involved in a critical incident.
LE officers draw their sidearms often but fire them very rarely. Private citizens shouldn't think they can act or resolve disputes the same way LE officers do.
Spare rounds are a smart move & knowing you may need a rapid, fluid response to a violent attack is smart too.
Thinking you won't fire a handgun or could avoid a conflict w/o using lethal force is wrong.
CF
Tactical Jackalope
New member
I usually do..But haven't been lately.
When I'm going to be in a bad area for a while then yes. I make it a point. But to and from places...My G19 with 16rds is good..So is the SIG 226 with 16rds, G21 with 14rds...etc. But the 1911...lol...ha...well it's a difficult 1911 to get a holster for..But if I could carry the SIG XO I would with an extra mag.
When I'm going to be in a bad area for a while then yes. I make it a point. But to and from places...My G19 with 16rds is good..So is the SIG 226 with 16rds, G21 with 14rds...etc. But the 1911...lol...ha...well it's a difficult 1911 to get a holster for..But if I could carry the SIG XO I would with an extra mag.
OldMarksman
Staff
Most trainers do recommend carrying an extra magazine to provide the ability to quickly clear a malfunction. I rarely do so myself, however.
I'm beginning to wonder if a back-up revolver might be a better idea. It would be quicker to put into action than clearing a malfunction, for the majority of people.
I'm beginning to wonder if a back-up revolver might be a better idea. It would be quicker to put into action than clearing a malfunction, for the majority of people.
@ClydeFrog,
You said
I guess you are disagreeing with me. And that's fine because that's how I learn.
I have a pre-thought out drill for warning people who worry me. It starts with getting out of there or defusing the situation somehow. If I can't (which to me means they don't want me to), the drill involves warning them away - which includes the threat of a firearm IF I HAVE THE TIME. I've only done it once in all the years I've been alive, and it worked. I got cussed at, but nobody got hurt.
I suppose I put myself at some risk by doing so. However, it's also possible that I am misreading the situation and the person poses no real threat of death or severe bodily harm to me. I'd rather not shoot anyone if it can be helped.
You said
I disagree with the forum member post that thinks carrying or drawing a weapon will deter/prevent an attack.
Unlike sworn LEOs(who are required to find & deal with violent subjects), armed citizens must be able to use lethal force immediately when involved in a critical incident.
LE officers draw their sidearms often but fire them very rarely. Private citizens shouldn't think they can act or resolve disputes the same way LE officers do.
Spare rounds are a smart move & knowing you may need a rapid, fluid response to a violent attack is smart too.
Thinking you won't fire a handgun or could avoid a conflict w/o using lethal force is wrong.
I guess you are disagreeing with me. And that's fine because that's how I learn.
I have a pre-thought out drill for warning people who worry me. It starts with getting out of there or defusing the situation somehow. If I can't (which to me means they don't want me to), the drill involves warning them away - which includes the threat of a firearm IF I HAVE THE TIME. I've only done it once in all the years I've been alive, and it worked. I got cussed at, but nobody got hurt.
I suppose I put myself at some risk by doing so. However, it's also possible that I am misreading the situation and the person poses no real threat of death or severe bodily harm to me. I'd rather not shoot anyone if it can be helped.
JBBURCH
Carrying extra mags for CC pistol
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494257
The above link is to a post by JohnKSa.
Read through it and you might find some food for thought.
OldMarksman
Staff
Woody, if you do not have to shoot, that's great. It's just that counting on that result could be fatal.
The fact is that should you ever have to shoot, all bets are off--the low probability of ever having to draw is completely irrelevant at that point.
Read through the thread that Mello has suggested. You may decode that seen is fine--or not. Seven is far better then six, and the advantage of having six instead of five is greater than one might think.
But it isn't just a matter of round count. Should your firearm malfunction, that extra magazine could prove invaluable in clearing the problem.
By the way, do not threaten anyone with a firearm unless you are lawfully justified.
The fact is that should you ever have to shoot, all bets are off--the low probability of ever having to draw is completely irrelevant at that point.
Read through the thread that Mello has suggested. You may decode that seen is fine--or not. Seven is far better then six, and the advantage of having six instead of five is greater than one might think.
But it isn't just a matter of round count. Should your firearm malfunction, that extra magazine could prove invaluable in clearing the problem.
By the way, do not threaten anyone with a firearm unless you are lawfully justified.
@OldMarksman,
Thanks for responding.
I assess the risk as I sit at home. That's the probability that a whole sequence will happen. I don't assume the sequence will happen and start there.
I have read it. And I enjoyed it and appreciate the effort and mathematical ability that went into it. However, it leaves some things out. Like the probability that after the first shot they will both run away. I don't have any figures, but there are a lot more robberies than murders. So I figure that if they haven't set out to kill you, they are likely to run when they realize they made a poor choice.
It could. But now you've added to more events to the necessary sequence. A malfunction and the only way to fix it is change magazines. Both are extremely unlikely. At least with what I carry.
No problem. In the event I mentioned, I did not draw it. I put my hand in my coat pocket and threatened to draw it.
I wish I could tell you what I said, but my heart was beating so loud I couldn't hear myself.
Thanks for responding.
Woody, if you do not have to shoot, that's great. It's just that counting on that result could be fatal.
The fact is that should you ever have to shoot, all bets are off--the low probability of ever having to draw is completely irrelevant at that point.
I assess the risk as I sit at home. That's the probability that a whole sequence will happen. I don't assume the sequence will happen and start there.
Read through the thread that Mello has suggested. You may decode that seen is fine--or not. Seven is far better then six, and the advantage of having six instead of five is greater than one might think.
I have read it. And I enjoyed it and appreciate the effort and mathematical ability that went into it. However, it leaves some things out. Like the probability that after the first shot they will both run away. I don't have any figures, but there are a lot more robberies than murders. So I figure that if they haven't set out to kill you, they are likely to run when they realize they made a poor choice.
But it isn't just a matter of round count. Should your firearm malfunction, that extra magazine could prove invaluable in clearing the problem.
It could. But now you've added to more events to the necessary sequence. A malfunction and the only way to fix it is change magazines. Both are extremely unlikely. At least with what I carry.
By the way, do not threaten anyone with a firearm unless you are lawfully justified.
No problem. In the event I mentioned, I did not draw it. I put my hand in my coat pocket and threatened to draw it.
I wish I could tell you what I said, but my heart was beating so loud I couldn't hear myself.
In most states you would have committed a crime You either draw it or not never show it unless you are ready to use it and you never tell then " I have a gun. You might need to brush up on your state laws.No problem. In the event I mentioned, I did not draw it. I put my hand in my coat pocket and threatened to draw it.
I wish I could tell you what I said, but my heart was beating so loud I couldn't hear myself.
Straightshooter629
New member
Regardless of what I'm carrying...revolver or auto, I always carry with either 2 mags or 2 speed loaders/quick strips, depending on my mode of dress. I am a firm believer in "Murphy"s Law" and the old addage...it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. To me, it is no trouble at all to carry reloads.
OldMarksman
Staff
To assess question of how many rounds to carry, that's exactly what you should assume. It has to do with the concept of conditional probability.Posted by Woody55: I don't assume the sequence will happen and start there.
How likely? Are you willing to bet your life on it?So I figure that if they haven't set out to kill you, they are likely to run when they realize they made a poor choice.
Malfunctions are unlikely, but in a self defense situation, one could prove fatal. And the way to fix one without taking time to diagnose the cause is to change magazines.Both [a malfunction and the need to change magazines] are extremely unlikely. At least with what I carry.
@kinggabby,
In Texas, it is a Class C misdemeanor (like a traffic ticket) to threaten imminent bodily injury. Texas Penal Code Sec. 22.01. If I had exhibited the weapon, it would have been aggravated assault which is a 2nd degree felony. Texas Penal Code Sec. 22.02. But I didn't.
However, there is a defense to either. A threat to use deadly force is justified when the use of non-deadly force would be justified as long as you were only tring to scare the guy off. So your fear does not have to be of death or severe bodily injury. Fear of getting beat up will do for example. Texas Penal Code Sec. 9.04.
That's a long way of saying that the police wouldn't have issued the ticket and if they did it should have been dismissed.
In most states you would have committed a crime You either draw it or not never show it unless you are ready to use it and you never tell then " I have a gun. You might need to brush up on your state laws.
In Texas, it is a Class C misdemeanor (like a traffic ticket) to threaten imminent bodily injury. Texas Penal Code Sec. 22.01. If I had exhibited the weapon, it would have been aggravated assault which is a 2nd degree felony. Texas Penal Code Sec. 22.02. But I didn't.
However, there is a defense to either. A threat to use deadly force is justified when the use of non-deadly force would be justified as long as you were only tring to scare the guy off. So your fear does not have to be of death or severe bodily injury. Fear of getting beat up will do for example. Texas Penal Code Sec. 9.04.
That's a long way of saying that the police wouldn't have issued the ticket and if they did it should have been dismissed.
@OldMarksman,
Well, suffice it to say I disagree with your reasoning. It's a heck of a lot more likely (around here) that I would be in a (potentially) fatal car accident than in an encounter with an armed assailant. Several times more likely. If I accepted your reasoning, I'd be wearing a helmet because given that the condition (potentially fatal car accident) is met, the probability of a fatal head injury is significant. I don't think any of us wear a helmet when we drive a car.
Yes. I am responsible for the validity of my assessment and the results.
I understand. But it's like the condition is met reasoning above. I may be betting my life, but it's a pretty safe bet.
Each of us has to decide at what point we are reaching the point of diminishing returns. I don't wear a helmet when I drive my car because in my opinion I'm way past that point. I don't carry an extra magazine because in my opinion I'm even further past that point.
Either way, I appreciate the discussion and the thought you've put into the issue.
Posted by Woody55: I don't assume the sequence will happen and start there.
To assess question of how many rounds to carry, that's exactly what you should assume. It has to do with the concept of conditional probability.
Well, suffice it to say I disagree with your reasoning. It's a heck of a lot more likely (around here) that I would be in a (potentially) fatal car accident than in an encounter with an armed assailant. Several times more likely. If I accepted your reasoning, I'd be wearing a helmet because given that the condition (potentially fatal car accident) is met, the probability of a fatal head injury is significant. I don't think any of us wear a helmet when we drive a car.
So I figure that if they haven't set out to kill you, they are likely to run when they realize they made a poor choice.
How likely? Are you willing to bet your life on it?
Yes. I am responsible for the validity of my assessment and the results.
Both [a malfunction and the need to change magazines] are extremely unlikely. At least with what I carry.
Malfunctions are unlikely, but in a self defense situation, one could prove fatal. And the way to fix one without taking time to diagnose the cause is to change magazines.
I understand. But it's like the condition is met reasoning above. I may be betting my life, but it's a pretty safe bet.
Each of us has to decide at what point we are reaching the point of diminishing returns. I don't wear a helmet when I drive my car because in my opinion I'm way past that point. I don't carry an extra magazine because in my opinion I'm even further past that point.
Either way, I appreciate the discussion and the thought you've put into the issue.
OldMarksman
Staff
So far, so good.Posted by Woody55: A threat to use deadly force is justified when the use of non-deadly force would be justified....
Um, no....as long as you were only tring to scare the guy off. So your fear does not have to be of death or severe bodily injury. Fear of getting beat up will do for example.
Trepidation won't cut it. The defender must provide evidence that he reasonably believed that force was immediately necessary to protect himself from the use or attempted use of unlawful force.
OldMarksman
Staff
It is a very basic element of risk management.Posted by Woody55: Well, suffice it to say I disagree with your reasoning.
Unless one evaluates the conditional probability (the probability that exists once the need has arisen), fire extinguishers containing only a few grams of material, and surge protectors providing protection against only three or four Joules, would be considered adequate. But they are not.
Again, it is very basic.
Well, someone might, if there were any reason to believe that, once the passive and active restraints and the energy absorption systems of the car had failed, a helmet would provide any reasonable amount of additional protection. But there is not.If I accepted your reasoning, I'd be wearing a helmet because given that the condition (potentially fatal car accident) is met, the probability of a fatal head injury is significant.
That's also basic risk management. When one identifies the significant risks of serious injury in a very serious accident, head injury is only one of them. A helmet would not mitigate the others.
Trepidation won't cut it. The defender must provide evidence that he reasonably believed that force was immediately necessary to protect himself from the use or attempted use of unlawful force.
I gave an informal example of what you state formally and generally. If I would have been justified in using force (non-deadly), I would have been justified on threatening deadly force if my "purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary."
The threshhold, therefore, is that I reasonably "believe[d] the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force." Which is what you said. Informally, that translates is I was afraid I was going to get my nose broken. As opposed to get killed.
We're saying the same thing.