Carrying a Sig P938 cocked and safety OFF?

J

Josh17

New member
So until recently i’ve Only shoot revolvers and Glocks. Now I am getting into other brands.

So I wondered: what is dangerous or bad about carrying it cocked with safety off?

I mean: to make a Glock go off it needs a trigger pull of roughly 5.5 pounds.
To make the Sig P938 go off it needs its hammer cocked + the trigger to be pulled and I read its 6-9lbs depending on the website.

So.... What’s the difference between a Glock with 1 in the chamber vs a Sig P938 with 1 in the chamber, safety off and cocked? It seems they both require roughly the same trigger pull.

The only thing I can think of is perhaps if the hammer gets snagged and thus falls down - will that cause it to fire? Or does it have a safety in the hammer area that prevents it from firing unless the trigger is pulled?
Assuming that’s the case then wouldn’t it would similar to carrying a Glock with a loaded chamber? The Sig seems to have a heavier trigger pull even though it’s SAO.. And I know the trigger pull DISTANCE is supposedly less on the Sig P938 then a standard a Glock at 5.5lbs, so maybe that’s why?

Im new to anything non Glock. Also new to hammer fired semi autos. So forgive my stupidity.
 
A Glock has an inertial trigger safety, that tab you depress, that the P938 does not. A Glock is also not fully cocked at rest with a round chambered. Pressing the trigger further cocks the striker, though there is some question as to whether it will still fire at that level of compression.

Lastly, were you to call SIG and ask them if you should carry the pistol cocked with the safety off they'd tell you no. Sometimes just doing what the manufacturer recommends is a good idea. I do get that part of this is just you getting some info, however. This question comes up every so often.

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The SIG is probably safer than the Glock, assuming the proper holster is used. It has a firing pin block. But, since the SIG has a safety, why not use it?
 
Holstered, the two guns would be equally "safe", and I don't really consider the trigger dongle to be much of a safety; both guns will fire if the trigger is pulled!

The Glock is maybe slightly more forgiving due to more initial take-up in the trigger, while the SIG won't tolerate much trigger movement before firing.

I wouldn't carry a single action pistol cocked and unlocked.
My P938 has a four-ish pound trigger, though I think factory spec is 6-7.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
The SIG is probably safer than the Glock, assuming the proper holster is used. It has a firing pin block. But, since the SIG has a safety, why not use it?
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Since I hate safeties. I know people say if you practice drawing it while pushing the safety off as you draw - well, I’m sure I could practice that but in a real life situation you may “slip up” due to adrenaline/anxiety/etc.

Also it’s one extra step in the way if you ever do need to pull the trigger. If a gun had to have a safety the only one I would be okay with is the grip safety (I guess I just don’t like having extra parts). Otherwise IMO it causes more room for error possibly even fatal if you forget to flick it off, or you do the opposite and flick it on.
It’s kind of like people who don’t carry with one in the chamber. Do you really want that extra step to be taken if you need to actually fire it? Will you have enough time? Sure flicking a safety is much faster than racking a slide, but it’s also easy to miss under stress with flight or fight kicking in. I could imagine you could freeze up and keep pulling the trigger multiple times before realizing the safety didn’t disengage.

That’s just my thoughts on it.
It’s similar to how many people hate the S&W revolvers with internal safeties. Many claim it reduces reliability as there were reports the lock engaged itself and locked up the firearm. I know it’s unlikely but any safety on a gun in theory could either:
Not switch actually off when you flick it. Or it could flat out break, either internally or the external thumb safety piece. I’m sure it’s rare but adding extra pieces isn’t ideal for me.

Like some videos I have seen instructors are saying to engage the safety at all times and only to remove it when you’re about to pull the trigger. They also said if you were searching your home as you thought someone broke it? To keep the safety on, and flip it on and off every-time you point and draw as you sweep each area. That’s a ton of extra work and very, very easy to forget or mess up in an adrenaline situation.
Plus... Flipping the safety on and off that often? I’d be worried the safety would break or wear out.

So my solution was just to keep it in the OFF position 24/7 so that way it never really gets used so it won’t be prone to malfunction/wear/etc AND I don’t ever have to worry about the safety being on or off (if I ever had to draw it) as it’s always going to be in the off position.

Plus it’s easier to transition into from using Glocks and revolvers with no safeties. I used to pocket carry a revolver with no holster (dumb I know) for a while before I realized they had holsters for that kind of thing.... So I guess the lack of safeties on a firearm is the norm for me, but the 938 is a darn good pistol that it’s hard to pass up!
 
If you don't want to use a safety I'd recommend a different pistol. While I get the argent's against safeties, nearly every long gun has a safety. Yet people can use those without getting killed. As for the durability, I don't think that's a likely issue.

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Carrying a 1911 style gun with safety on, and wipe it off as the gun is drawn is such a habit.

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even fatal if you forget to flick it off, or you do the opposite and flick it on.
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If you "Accidently put it on" you are not familiar enough with the gun to carry it.

No different that a single barrel hammer fired shot gun. Pull the hammer back as you are shouldering the gun.

Holster the cocked gun, get a piece of shirt in the trigger guard while doing it. I think they call it glock leg.

And if some one tried to take your gun? Fighting over it? Its going to go bang pointing who knows where.

I had an old double barrel shotgun with two HUGE hammers. Was hard to cock one. While hunting, I carried it both hammers cocked. Just keep my finger off the triggers. Tried it, DID NOT LIKE IT. A branch or anything could set it off. I used a different gun.


Its easy to make it a habit to put the safety on and take it off.
Do as you wish. Its a safety and there for a reason. I use mine religiously.

David
 
While the trigger may be heavier, it is still SAO. No trigger safety, so trigger makes its short travel... gun goes off.

If you want to carry a P938 without the safety, I’d suggest carrying it without a round in the chamber. And I’m someone who never recommends an empty firearm (no round in chamber equates to such). Think that is a better solution than the safety off and a hot gun. That being said, hopefully you can infer how poorly I view both of those scenarios.

Why the P938, though? Some people just can’t do the 1911 style pistol... but there are plenty of other designs that were meant to be carried with the safety off (or omit the manual safety completely). It might have a slightly heavier trigger, but that is on par with asking if you should carry a 1911 with the safety off...
 
I mean: to make a Glock go off it needs a trigger pull of roughly 5.5 pounds.
To make the Sig P938 go off it needs its hammer cocked + the trigger to be pulled and I read its 6-9lbs depending on the website.
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While the P938 trigger may technically be heavier, its also has far less travel in the pull than a Glock.

Since I hate safeties. I know people say if you practice drawing it while pushing the safety off as you draw - well, I’m sure I could practice that but in a real life situation you may “slip up” due to adrenaline/anxiety/etc.
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This point of view is perfectly understandable and the reason that a number of instructors don't recommend SAO pistols. There's more options on the market than ever before. If you're not willing to put in the time training for the P938/1911 manual of arms that's fine. Just don't try to compromise by carrying with the safety off!
 
MandolinMan said:
While the P938 trigger may technically be heavier, its also has far less travel in the pull than a Glock.



This point of view is perfectly understandable and the reason that a number of instructors don't recommend SAO pistols. There's more options on the market than ever before. If you're not willing to put in the time training for the P938/1911 manual of arms that's fine. Just don't try to compromise by carrying with the safety off!
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Makes perfect sense... I guess I never looked at it that way.

I guess it’s kind of like having a 1911 and going over to a Glock.

In my case it’s the opposite. I have only used Glocks until now, and I really like the Sig a lot so I will try and decide if I feel like I can flip the safety on/off proficiently. Or rather if I’m willing to practice and comprise with having a safety VS being used to none. I’m just not used to it so I had “concerns” but probably am over-thinking it.
 
For someone who has no experience with handguns other than Glocks, you are very opinionated.
If you don't want to learn a manual-of-arms stick with the Glock. Safeties have been successfully used for a very long time.
 
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I wouldn't carry a chambered, cocked, SAO pistol without a safety. That is what DA(double action) is for. The heavy trigger pull of a DA serves as a safety of sorts.

I have a DA/SA pistol. if I carry it in SA, the safety goes on. In DA, I feel better about having the safety off. On mine, I can easily disengage the safety while pulling up to aim with just my thumb and no change in grip. Switching the safety on takes a grip change(for me and my pistol) and is not as easy as disengaging.
 
I really like my balls. So, I only carry my P238 with the safety on if cocked. With my DA Sig, I carry it uncocked and safety off.
 
Since I hate safeties. I know people say if you practice drawing it while pushing the safety off as you draw - well, I’m sure I could practice that but in a real life situation you may “slip up” due to adrenaline/anxiety/etc.

Also it’s one extra step in the way if you ever do need to pull the trigger. If a gun had to have a safety the only one I would be okay with is the grip safety (I guess I just don’t like having extra parts). Otherwise IMO it causes more room for error possibly even fatal if you forget to flick it off, or you do the opposite and flick it on.
It’s kind of like people who don’t carry with one in the chamber. Do you really want that extra step to be taken if you need to actually fire it? Will you have enough time? Sure flicking a safety is much faster than racking a slide, but it’s also easy to miss under stress with flight or fight kicking in. I could imagine you could freeze up and keep pulling the trigger multiple times before realizing the safety didn’t disengage.

That’s just my thoughts on it.
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I love safeties.
Also, consider that they are a two-way street; someone who has your gun, whether an assailant or just someone you don't want to handle your gun, also has the same impediment to firing that concerns you.

It's really a training issue; you have to practice with the safety so that it's not conscious; do you fear you'll fail to pull the trigger, or find the trigger, at the moment of truth?

And it's not really an extra step, in the sense that there is a delay in being able to shoot while the safety is manipulated; it's done during the draw, and as the gun is being rotated downrange.

The real concern with racking on draw, is that you may not have both hands available when you draw; what if you are fighting-off someone with your weak hand, do you really want to draw an unloaded gun?
 
There are a couple of points I want to add to this discussion of safeties. First, if a gun has a safety, you must include the safety in your training. I sometimes hear people say, "this gun has a safety, but I never plan to use it, so I'll just ignore it." Well, even the best designed safeties can occasionally shift position during carry. If the safety becomes accidentally engaged, and you don't train with the safety, then getting the safety disengaged can be a significant delay. People often think that if the safety is engaged, that they will immediately recognize the problem and disengage it. But from what I have seen, without practice, this issue is not quick to resolve. The solution to this problem is that if your gun has a safety, it should be included in your training on a frequent basis.

Second, regarding the SIG 238, the common standard for this pistol is to carry it cocked and locked. I strongly recommend that firearms should be used according to their common standards and also according to the manufacturers recommendation. If someone has expert knowledge of a firearms system, it is sometimes acceptable to deviate from common standards. But this should only be considered after attaining expert knowledge with the design and standard usage of the system. It is very appropriate to ask questions on forums like this about how the common standards were developed, but it is rarely a good idea to deviate from them.

In some cases, it is a good choice to choose a different firearm where the standard practices are more familiar, or just more to your liking.
 
I used to have a Sig P938. Really enjoyed the gun until it started having problems dropping magazines and the safety came out. Never could trust the repaired gun after that.

However....

I pocket carry and prior to carrying the 938 loaded, I carried it unloaded. On a lark I carried it cocked and unlocked in a pocket holster just to see how that would work. There were several times that when the gun came out of a pocket with only the gun in it, that the hammer was down. Needless to say that when I carried it loaded "for real", it was always cocked and Locked. Even with that, I was always not very comfortable carrying it cocked and locked.

LOL...now I carry striker fired Shields with no safety.
 
Josh17 said:
Since I hate safeties. I know people say if you practice drawing it while pushing the safety off as you draw - well, I’m sure I could practice that but in a real life situation you may “slip up” due to adrenaline/anxiety/etc.

Also it’s one extra step in the way if you ever do need to pull the trigger. If a gun had to have a safety the only one I would be okay with is the grip safety (I guess I just don’t like having extra parts). Otherwise IMO it causes more room for error possibly even fatal if you forget to flick it off, or you do the opposite and flick it on.
It’s kind of like people who don’t carry with one in the chamber. Do you really want that extra step to be taken if you need to actually fire it? Will you have enough time? Sure flicking a safety is much faster than racking a slide, but it’s also easy to miss under stress with flight or fight kicking in. I could imagine you could freeze up and keep pulling the trigger multiple times before realizing the safety didn’t disengage.

That’s just my thoughts on it.
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Then don't carry a single action pistol. It was designed with a thumb safety and the manual of arms requires the use of the thumb safety for the firearm to be considered "safe" when carried loaded and cocked. If you choose not to train yourself to properly use your firearm as it was designed to be used, then that is not an appropriate firearm for you to be carrying.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but that's the way it is. You seem to be looking for support in carrying a weapon in an unsafe manner. I sincerely hope that no one on this or any other forum will encourage you to do that.
 
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