Carry enough gun in bear country

The Main ingredient in pepper spray is Capsicum.
My wife is forceing me to take this HERBAL crap that is a mix of just about every herbal healing thing on the planet. Interestingly, one of the items in the ingredients is CAPSICUM! Nasty sh!t.
Let me tell you - the stuff makes this Kodiac run for the hils!

"Here you go, Honey..."
"No, I dont want to take it."
"It's good for you! Take it!"
"Sweety, look... it has Capsicum in it!"
"So?"
"So?!? Capsicum is what we use in Pepper Spray... It's a weapon! I used that crap on Bad Guys!"
"Then get ready to get your @ss kicked like you did to those Bad Guys - cause YOUR TAKING IT!"


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RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE



[This message has been edited by Kodiac (edited June 16, 1999).]
 
Ankeny>Personally, I think the very best defense is a 12 gauge shotgun, but how do you pack the thing where you can get at it and still have your hands free?

I have an old Sears pump that someone gave to me long ago. It had been sawed off behind the pistol grip, and the barrel was, uhhh, not to specs, shall we say? I discarded the out of spec barrel and replaced it (gun is actually a Win. 1200.) Installed sling swivel in the butt, and on the forend cap. With the right sling, it could be carried across the front of the body, out of the way, but still be ready (looong sling.) Of course, practice with slugs is mandatory, but you'd be surprised at how accurately it can be fired at close ranges, even without sights and no buttstock. I'm pretty sure I could send a couple of Brenekes up a griz's snout before he could get a taste of me if I've got at least a second or two of warning. Recoil isn't as bad as one might suspect, either. With the sawed-off wood pistol grip, it's similar to the "plow handle" effect of a Colt P...grip rolls in your hand, but since you're griping the forend, recovery is no problem.


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Shoot straight regards, Richard
The Shottist's Center forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=45acp45lc
 
You guys are forgetting the easiest way to stay healthy in bear country ........ Bring along someone who runs slower than you do!!!!
 
You skinny guys think you're so smart. While you're busy analyzing the bear's activities, this fat boy would get a couple steps ahead of you. Then, let's see how well you can outrun me, when YOU have to run on a slippery trail!
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Ipecac. Ruger now makes a Super Redhawk chambered for the .475 Linebaugh. Run somewhat over $750 bucks if I remember right.
My bear gun when I hike is a Ruger Super blackhawk, 4 5/8s inch barrel loaded with heat reated, very hard 300 gr. bullets loaded as hot as the gun will safely stand. The bullet comes from the RCBS mold #44-300 and looks like an oversized Elmer Kieth semi-wadcutter with a gas check. My load puts out about 1,300 fps. Kicks like hell too. Thankfully all I have to worry about is black bears. Ain't no griz that I know of in Southern AZ, except in the zoo.
I think that if I were up your way, I'd pack that, and my 45-70 Marlin. I have a pretty nasty 525 gr. load for that one too that should do the job. A friend borrowed the gun to use in real black timber elk hunting. Shot one going away at about 20-25 yards. It shattered the pelvis, passed all the way through the elk, and buried itself anout 8 inches into the hillside in front of the elk. The bullet, which he recovered and gave to me looks like you could relube it and fire it again. He said it stopped the elk cold on impact.
This has been a real educational thread. Hope there's more acomin'.
Paul B.
 
PaulB, Ruger is making a .475 now, eh? I did not know that. Hmm.

My .44mag load sounds similar to yours: basically same bullet and velocity. Can you say, "Snoose". I'm shooting an old 5 1/2" Redhawk, btw.

Been thinking about a .45-70, or a .450 or .500 Alaskan, but I think I'll go with a .458 win mag as I'm a confirmed boltgun shooter. Don't think I can get used to a lever, and don't know if I want to.
 
1) I don't know the common sense "do" and "don't" list for BIG bear country. I don't have a clue!
2) I don't think I could carry "enough gun" to match my fears (e.g. RPG, flame thrower, squad of Marines, etc.)
3) I have no faith in my ability to use ANY firearm effectively and efficiently within the one second I might have available before said bear begins to process me into bear "scat". Same goes for condiment sprays.
4) I would rather be locked in a closed room with Janet Reno and Sarah Brady than face an angry she-bear. (Better chance of survival, more oppotunity to "pull wings off flies", etc.
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5) Therefore, I shall leave bear country, as beautiful as it is, as much as I would love to experience it, to the competent (such as yourselves) and the bear-food (the average tourist). I'll just go visit the Smithsonian, call me when (if?) you get back.

Cowardly, wild-eyed Grump
 
Ipecac. The article on the .475 Linebaugh is in the June 1999 issue of Guns and Ammo. That is Freedom Arms version. My error. The Ruger is in .454 Casull. That's in the April issue of Guns and Ammo.
As long as I'm here, here's an anecdote you might enjoy.
There was a gun shop in Reno, NV, called the Alpine reloading Room. The owner were two gay gentle people, who were very intelligent on the subject of firearms. Anyway, When I lived in NV, I used to get my reloading supplies there, and got to know these two people fairly well. One day we got on the subject of the .44 Magnum as protection from large bears. The handgun being discussed was a Ruger super Blackhawk in new model persuasion. He said, "If you ever have to shoot a Kodiak bear, or a grizzly with that thing, shoot him five times." I asked him why five, when I had six rounds in the gun? He said." Because it iwill take you a long time to die, laying there on the ground, disembowelled." Maybe he had a point. By the way, his favorite deer round was a .375 H&H. He also loved playing with several of the big bore British rounds, including a .600 Nitro Express. he let me try that one. Never again. That hurt.
Paul B.
 
I've been looking at a "Grizzly" .50cal pistol for just this use. I think it's a 6+1.
Any thoughts on this cartrige for bears?
Would it just be a waste of $800?

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Same Shot, Different Day
 
PaulB, thanks for the update. Knew about the Ruger .454, didn't know Freedom Arms was making a .475. I do like the Bisley grip style for that much horsepower, tho. Did Seyfried (sp?) write the article in G&A? He wrote several in the past on the Linebaugh and Bowen conversions.

Sameshot, if I'm gonna carry an 8 lb gun it's gonna have a shoulder stock. Just kidding, I don't really know the ballistics of the .50AE to say if it'd be good or not. Who is up on this?

Dennis, I agree with your point on anything you can carry. I'd like a Romulan disruptor myself, but somehow I think Commandant Reno and associates would frown on that. Hell, so would Pickard, the big limey poofter.
 
So where can I get some of these hot 44 mag loads. I do not reload and are subject to the whims of local sporting goods/gun shops in what ammo they stock. Here the only ones you can purchase are the 240gr JHP. I keep my 629 Classic stocked with the JHP's but do not have much faith in them if needed for bear.


What kind of carry rig do you guys use when out in the boonies?



[This message has been edited by Shrike9 (edited June 18, 1999).]
 
The best bear gun is a snubbie revolver with JHP bullets. Wait till the bear swollows you (tell it not to chew you much) and then fire from the inside. Good hearing protection is a must, it is loud inside a bear...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> The big limey poofter[/quote]

I am dying here
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Ipecac. The G&A article on the .475 Linebaugh was written by a Brian Pearce. Never heard of him. However he looks good in a cowboy hat. Jan Liborel, late of G&A and Petersons Handgunners made the comment that the new owners of Petersons Publishing want all their writers to look good in cowboy hats, or something to that effect.
Anyway this Pearce is shown with the .475 in recoil, the muzzle pionted ar about a 45 degree angle behind him. He complained about the terrible recoil.
I remember when the .44 Mag came, old Gen. Hatcher said you would have to wear good leather gloves to shoot this one as it will rub your hand bloody. Said it in the Rifleman. I had an early Smith 29 5 screw. Bad move in that I sold it. Anyway, after two boxes of factory, skin was still on my hand, no blood. I think the factories have downloaded the .44 Mag. as they don't seem to kick as hard. I have also heard that the Smith 29 and 629 don't hold up too well under a steady diet of factory ammo.(current loads) Must be true. My 629 has been rebuilt twice. It craps out after about 200 to 250 rounds of factory. When I do shoot it now, only .44 Spl. equivilent loads are used. I'm thinking of dumping it at the next gun show, if I am allowed too. It is accurate though.
There was a .475 Linebaugh Freedom Arms at the last gun show. It was the field grade. He wanted $2500 for it. According to the article, field grades sell for $1400. I guess they're like the 29's were a few years back, when scalpers were making a fortune on them because of the Dirty Harry movies.
Either way, too rich for my blood.
Paul B.
 
Shrike, try some of the Anchorage gun shops. Mountain View Sports definitely carries some heavy bullet loads for the .44 mag. As I recall, it was 18 rounds for about $20. Makes reloading seem pretty cheap.

PaulB, the 29s are well-known in these parts for having excellent triggers, short cylinders and a propensity to get out of time or even lock up under heavy loads. This is why I have a Redhawk. My 300 gr loads will not fit into a Blackhawk or 29/629 cylinder due to OAL.

$1400 is too much for me. $2500 is more than I spent on my truck, which, IMHO, would make an excellent bear stopper.

[This message has been edited by Ipecac (edited June 18, 1999).]
 
This has been fun. I grew up in Anchorage, but someone already stole my joke about filing off your front sight so it didn't hurt that much.
I don't personally have any negative experiences with bears, but I'll pass on a few things I've heard.
First, I read a recent article about the pepper spray. They were warning people not to test their spray cans near their campsites. It seems the spray was acting as a bear attractant. Bears would come from miles around to roll around on the spray spot. Guess it was bear cologne for them!!
2nd story. This came from a book I read as a kid. I think it was titled "Snow Leopard" or some such. It was a non-fiction, semi autobiography of an explorer in the early 1930's. Those guys really had fun. Anyway, it covered his expedition to find the mythical (at that time) snow leopard. This guy was a pretty good shot and he wowed the locals with his ability to hit wood blocks thrown into the air with his .38. Anyway, he was walking away from the campsite one day with just his .38 revolver. He stepped over a log and onto a sleeping bear. The bear reared up and grabbed him. He had just enough time to draw his .38 and jam it into the bear's neck under the jaw as the bear grabbed him. He fired and woke up to find out his one lucky shot had severed the spine. He was sore from having the bear fall on him, but that was it. Can't say as I recommend it as a way to dispatch bears at close range!
Finally, I think the original question was "how do you carry a rifle/shotgun while fishing?" I've never fly fished, but couldn't you sling your long gun behind your back and get enough freedom of movement to cast? A 6-7lb rifle or shotgun shouldn't be too heavy.

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Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal
weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the
monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
 
A question arises over this thread as to whether the concealed carry law, if you have one from the particular state you are visiting the national park overides the restriction of no firearms in the parks. Does anyone have an answer on this issue. I for one would always carry discretely as our senior member suggested and at least have some ability to protect myself in dire circumstances.
 
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