Career in ATF anyone?
- Thread starter ClownFish
- Start date
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg Volk:
The question is: can one junior-level employee decrease the effectiveness of the organization enough to make it worth his time?[/quote]
Howling!!! BWAHHHHAAAAA
Personally, I wouldn't consider working for any Federal agency/dept/etc until the Gov't is fixed and ceases to use the various parts to further political agendas.
Examples...CDC, HUD, Interior, F&G, ad nauseum
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
The question is: can one junior-level employee decrease the effectiveness of the organization enough to make it worth his time?[/quote]
Howling!!! BWAHHHHAAAAA
Personally, I wouldn't consider working for any Federal agency/dept/etc until the Gov't is fixed and ceases to use the various parts to further political agendas.
Examples...CDC, HUD, Interior, F&G, ad nauseum
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
Kevin: They're only after the "criminals"?
Problem with that is their definition of "criminal". And with the political climate what it is, more of us are encompassed by their definition every day.
Make no mistake: They are the enemy! If you allow them to affect your heart and mind, you become an enemy sympathizer.
Problem with that is their definition of "criminal". And with the political climate what it is, more of us are encompassed by their definition every day.
Make no mistake: They are the enemy! If you allow them to affect your heart and mind, you become an enemy sympathizer.
Let me put it this way guys.. This guy has saved more than one gun owner(including me) from some bad ****.. I would stand beside him against anyone who tried to attack him. Including most people here. There is the enemy and there are people who are not the enemy. The uniform doesn't always dictate who is who.. US troops have commited war crimes and German troops saved people.. The majority was the other way around. But the facts are that people are people. Some are good, some are bad. Good guys sometimes do wear black..
The enemy are the politicos who set the tone, the media which incites it, the bureaucrats (political appointees and career climbing brown nosers) who administer it. The little guy at the bottom of the food chain has nothing to say about it. Direct any anger towards the first three.
Never looked at a Nazi, I meant ATF agent with envy. But then again, I never got off from tearing the wings off flies when I was a little kid either. I guess the ATF need certain people, the kind that shed a tear when the history channel shows the demise of Adolf Hitler. No one i work with likes them either. I do not think their own mothers like them.
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"Out here, due process is a bullet"
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"Out here, due process is a bullet"
Clownfish, I have two questions:
1) What are you smoking?
2) Why aren't you passing it over this way?
F-Troop is probably the least-respected arm of Federal law enforcement, both by Joe Gunowner and by other Federales. Put it this way: if a friend o' mine said he wanted to work for them, I'd have to smack the fecal matter out of him.
1) What are you smoking?
2) Why aren't you passing it over this way?
F-Troop is probably the least-respected arm of Federal law enforcement, both by Joe Gunowner and by other Federales. Put it this way: if a friend o' mine said he wanted to work for them, I'd have to smack the fecal matter out of him.
George Dickel at Work
New member
No one in this country has the authority to order another person to do an illegal act. It is your right and responsibility to refuse to comply with an illegal order. You can be prosecuted for performing an illegal act even if ordered by a superior. "I vas only followink ordersss" did not work at Nuremburg. On second thought this might not be the case anymore under the Cinton administration because complying with unlawfull orders to commit illegal acts seems to be acceptable.
The ATF agents at the bottom of the pole (the real workers) will say that they are only following orders as they take your guns away.
It didn't work for the Nazi's at their war crimes trials and it shouldn't work for the ATF agents. If you know it's wrong, don't do it. I don't buy that, "I'm only doing my job" crap.
It didn't work for the Nazi's at their war crimes trials and it shouldn't work for the ATF agents. If you know it's wrong, don't do it. I don't buy that, "I'm only doing my job" crap.
I'll second what Scooter said. I just took the exam for Border Patrol yesterday. The agent who spoke while our tests were being graded said almost the same thing. That hiring is at GS 5 or 7. GS 5 starts at about 28,000 a year and after the academy you will be promoted to GS 7. Then the overtime and other pay incentives add up to about $15,000 extra per year. He also said that there was alot of overtime and 10 hour days were the norm.
Blue jays, who Cares about pay! They will give you a horse and let you ride all over West Texas And give you money, too! Can't beat that in an office somewhere.
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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
true story, a Union Gen. once said "Don't worry about those Rebs. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..SPLAT.
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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
true story, a Union Gen. once said "Don't worry about those Rebs. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..SPLAT.
Clownfish,
I have to agree with others on what has already been said about a "respected" agency. There have been many who have chosen to leave the past several years. From what I know from friends who are cops, both federal and local, the ATF is definitely not considered glamorous or respected-and this coming from other police officers! I'm not saying they don't have a role, but they appear to overstep their charter at times, and when challenged in court, they have not had the best record.
Just my opinion. Mike
I have to agree with others on what has already been said about a "respected" agency. There have been many who have chosen to leave the past several years. From what I know from friends who are cops, both federal and local, the ATF is definitely not considered glamorous or respected-and this coming from other police officers! I'm not saying they don't have a role, but they appear to overstep their charter at times, and when challenged in court, they have not had the best record.
Just my opinion. Mike
Eric of IN
New member
Although Alchohol, Tobacco and Firearms are three of my favorite things, I don't think working there would be much fun.
Eric
Eric
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
IF Offered a 53K a year job with the BATF - If they said "Sign you name and the dotted line and you can start tomarrow - here are the key to a navy blue crown vic and to your new office."
I'ld walk away waiving my middle finger.
I'ld walk away waiving my middle finger.
MP Freeman
New member
I couldn't work for the F-Troop at any level lower than Director. If that is what the head of ATF is called.
At the top, I could radically cut the number of agents, Reverse some of these stupid rules, and set things straight.
I couldn't even start out as an agent that had to enforce illegal laws though.
At the top, I could radically cut the number of agents, Reverse some of these stupid rules, and set things straight.
I couldn't even start out as an agent that had to enforce illegal laws though.
Good Evening Everyone-
Scooter71, you appear to have completed some exhaustive research, so I'm not going to counter your compensation numbers. My figures were based on memory from two or three years ago, but here's something of interest:
I've got a buddy who is an airplane and helicopter pilot with hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of accumulated flight time in the Armed Forces and Reserves who joined the Border Patrol after his time in the service.
He knew that I have been very passionate about pursuing a career in L.E. When he learned that I was expressing interest in the Border Patrol, he encouraged me to, "Run, do not walk, away from that Agency."
He joined the Border Patrol after being promised that he would be patrolling and providing surveillance exclusively from a chopper. Guess where he ended-up? You guessed it, on the ground, with a horse. Flight experience and skill-level be damned...he wasn't flying anytime soon.
He muddled through with them for about six years before leaving. Of course, he is sad and the disillusion was depressing.
He later started flying for a regional airline and received a raise, which brought him to just under $75K annually. This is basically the $53K you quoted with a 40% raise and his wife doesn't have to worry about him being a bullet magnet. He also sleeps at night and works (primarily) during the day.
Phillip, it is good to see you've done well on the test. America needs smart, dedicated people to secure our borders. I hope you reach all of your goals.
What I'm driving at is that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. In my case, through hard work and good luck in the technology sector, I've done a bit better financially than my friend described above. Am I still interested in a L.E. career? You bet! Will I run out the door to just any Agency that expresses interest? No way.
TexasVet, you're right in that money isn't everything...but it sure makes poverty lots more tolerable!
There must be some days when patrolling on a beautiful, sunshine-filled day on horseback makes you be glad to be alive, but there are also the "down" days, too.
Life is always a story of advantages and disadvantages to every decision we make.
This whole Border Patrol discussion probably belongs on a different thread, but the common theme is that we can't just "jump-in" to a career without considering all of the ramifications.
Regards to all,
~ Blue Jays ~
Scooter71, you appear to have completed some exhaustive research, so I'm not going to counter your compensation numbers. My figures were based on memory from two or three years ago, but here's something of interest:
I've got a buddy who is an airplane and helicopter pilot with hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of accumulated flight time in the Armed Forces and Reserves who joined the Border Patrol after his time in the service.
He knew that I have been very passionate about pursuing a career in L.E. When he learned that I was expressing interest in the Border Patrol, he encouraged me to, "Run, do not walk, away from that Agency."
He joined the Border Patrol after being promised that he would be patrolling and providing surveillance exclusively from a chopper. Guess where he ended-up? You guessed it, on the ground, with a horse. Flight experience and skill-level be damned...he wasn't flying anytime soon.
He muddled through with them for about six years before leaving. Of course, he is sad and the disillusion was depressing.
He later started flying for a regional airline and received a raise, which brought him to just under $75K annually. This is basically the $53K you quoted with a 40% raise and his wife doesn't have to worry about him being a bullet magnet. He also sleeps at night and works (primarily) during the day.
Phillip, it is good to see you've done well on the test. America needs smart, dedicated people to secure our borders. I hope you reach all of your goals.
What I'm driving at is that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. In my case, through hard work and good luck in the technology sector, I've done a bit better financially than my friend described above. Am I still interested in a L.E. career? You bet! Will I run out the door to just any Agency that expresses interest? No way.
TexasVet, you're right in that money isn't everything...but it sure makes poverty lots more tolerable!
There must be some days when patrolling on a beautiful, sunshine-filled day on horseback makes you be glad to be alive, but there are also the "down" days, too. Life is always a story of advantages and disadvantages to every decision we make.
This whole Border Patrol discussion probably belongs on a different thread, but the common theme is that we can't just "jump-in" to a career without considering all of the ramifications.
Regards to all,
~ Blue Jays ~
When I graduated from college, just for kicks, I called one of those ads in the paper that advertises govt. jobs. I was an earth science major and I wanted to work for the USFS ( 
I've gotten over that!)
Anyway, I called the number, and asked the guy which agencies/branches, whatever, they had opeings for. The guy says, "Well, we have lots of openings w/the IRS, and they don't even care what kind of degree you have."
Please see Dennis' response to this thread for my answer to him!
Please see my thread on taxes if you're wondering why.
I used to hold the IRS to be the most evil part of the US govt until I started reading TFL. Now I hold them pretty equal w/BATF. They don't shoot babies, but they have a knack (sorry, Knack) for destroying a person's spirit which is almost as evil as taking a life.
I think if I had a terminal illness, I would go work for the ATF, just so I could destroy everything I could get my hands on.
I've gotten over that!)Anyway, I called the number, and asked the guy which agencies/branches, whatever, they had opeings for. The guy says, "Well, we have lots of openings w/the IRS, and they don't even care what kind of degree you have."
Please see Dennis' response to this thread for my answer to him!
Please see my thread on taxes if you're wondering why.
I used to hold the IRS to be the most evil part of the US govt until I started reading TFL. Now I hold them pretty equal w/BATF. They don't shoot babies, but they have a knack (sorry, Knack) for destroying a person's spirit which is almost as evil as taking a life.
I think if I had a terminal illness, I would go work for the ATF, just so I could destroy everything I could get my hands on.