Carbine for Home Defense

Yorec, at least tell me about the TAP ammo. What weight are you shooting? How's the penetration? Secondary penetration after the gelatin block? Performance against animals? Don't tease me, now!
 
Joven, believe it or not, there are more carbine configurations available out there than there are oppinions on your thread". Do you hunt at all? A multipurpose carbine, one that can be used for plinking, hunting and home defense might be just what you are looking for.

.30cal M1 Carbine - An oldy but a goody from WWII

Ruger 44mag Carbine - Older models have tubular magazines. Newer models are clip fed. The .44 mag is a bit much for home defense inside a frame and sheetrock house, but they are very fun to shoot.

Marlin .45acp or 9mm Camp Carbines - I don't know if they are still making these but they were quick little rifles.

Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30 - A good all around weapon. Sure there weapons out there that are better, but the Mini configuration is a great all around/versitile package. I personally prefer the Mini-30.

The list of carbines and their good/bad points is endless, I think you are going to need at least a couple.
 
A 12ga. slug will overpenetrate and obviously if you are looking for a head shot with a hostage, 00 will not work either.

I would go with the .223 with a 55gr. Less penetration, better round for my money.
 
remember where you are...

A shotgun loaded with a light bird shot will not overpenetrate but WILL stop an intruder at room distances. I personally keep my 1911 .45 loaded with Glasers or any good prefrag ammo. Practice spot shooting at 10 ft. until you can shoot the nuts off a mosquitoe.;)
 
"A 12 guage shotgun loaded with #6 or #4 shot is a hunting weapon employed for self-defense (sorry, no pistol grip). An AR-15 type weapon is a high powered military assault rifle purchased by a fanatic just waiting for someone to wander into their sights"

KyJim,

I think this here was a poor statement to make. This generalizes many here on this board and if nobody else will say it I will. It is loaded with ignorance.
I am not sitting at the ready with a hard on to kill someone, the topic here was asking what is a good carbine for "Home Defense". Thats what I have a carbine for home "defense". If you preference is a scatter gun thats great, nothng wrong with your choice, but then there is nothing wrong with ours either. Do our assault rifles frighten you?
 
Storm, I think KyJim was trying to illustrate how the City Officials/LEOs and the media will look at an AR used in a defensive situation by a law-abiding joe, and not making a negative statement about the people on this board. Whether it's fair or not, it is a very real sentiment among the unlearned.
 
Vaughn,

if that is the case, then I have been put in my place and apologize for the remark. It wasn't a personal attack I was trying to make.

KYJim,

My apologies to you.
 
I could not care less about what the responding LEO's think. I care somewhat about what the DA thinks. I care considerably about what a jury would think. Find me one real case where a reasonable person would conclude that had the 'defender' only used a more benign weapon there would not have been a conviction. It does not make the slightest difference what you use to hurt/kill someone if you were legally within your rights to use deadly force. That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered and if things are so muddy in that regard that you have to hope the type of weapon used was politically correct enough to somehow tip the balance in your favor you already made your biggest mistake. I find these types of questions regarding political correctness of weaponry as silly as asking if one would be better wearing a plain, pinstripe, or a plaid suit to their trial because of how one might be perceived by the jury for one's fashion sense. "Should I wear earthtones or bold colors?" If you are placing your fate in someones superficial perception of you, or your guns, you are in big trouble. Know the law and stay within its boundaries.
 
If you are placing your fate in someones superficial perception of you, or your guns, you are in big trouble. Know the law and stay within its boundaries.
Click to expand...

Wow. I understand the logic and the emotion behind the above post but if you are making such statements you have obviously not been informed of or in touch with how things are in the real world. Perception is the key to many situations in life, it may be sad but it is true. And the way people work may not measure up to your ideal vision of what is the law and justice but in the real world people are constantly making decisions on the basis of perception. Which is why when there is a person with serious issues who gets a hold of a gun and does evil things all of us as gun owners and RKBA advocates shudder becasue of how we will be perceived.

Perception is also the reason that many anti-gunners want to paint all gun owners as slightly crazed or unbalanced or a felony waiting to happen. For example one of reasons that we have to go through extensive background checks in some states is becasue they perceive that this will stop the aquisition of guns by criminals. Either way one should care how LEO perceives the defensive situation becasue his perception will be what he testifies in court for or against, as for me i would rather have them with me than against me. Also we live in a society and benefit greatly from that and there are rules for living in a society, having guns motivates most people to behave themselves in society and whether you like it or not other people in society have perceptions. I am not saying what gun you should use or how you should use it when protecting you and yours, but, be aware of the damage to the perception of gun owners when you carelessly spout off.:cool:
 
On behalf of your wife and children...

If you first hear a noise upstairs what will you do? Take your chosen firearm upstairs and confront Mr. Yuk in the doorway to the kids room, putting them directly in the line of fire? And at the same time leaving your wife unprotected down stairs? If you hear the noise downstairs, will you walk out of the room to investigate and leave your wife alone in the bedroom or do you stay in the room and leave your kids unprotected? And about the headshot in a hostage situation, with your own family member as a hostage. With all due respect sir if you had the skill and capability to do that you would not be posting a thread on here asking a bunch of people you do not know what you should use. If you are intent on having a weapon or in your case it should be weapons so your wife can help. Learn how to shoot and when to shoot to the point you can decide for yourself what would be best in your house. I don't care for the "modern techniques" taught by every one and his brother, they will get you killed and I say that from experience. But learn something. In the mean time get an alarm system and a nice loud dog.
Rimrod
 
AR-15 Hands Down...

Don't forget your backstop though...This should go for WHATEVER HOME DEFENSE WEAPON YOU CHOOSE:) ...

As long as your home defense AR does not have a 20" barrel(mine has a 14 1/2" barrel), and you use proper ammo selection for your home's construction/location, overpenetration is a secondary concern. Hitting the B/G with all rounds fired is your first:eek: ! I serioulsy doubt that an AR-15 bullet that enters and exits a B/G, will be an overpenetration issue to anyone outside the house,remembering that at HD ranges all AR bullets should tumble( if not fragment)...

So how about we don't shoot unless we can hit what we aim at, and overpenetration issues become moot....I use a Scorpion(LED) light, and a red dot, for my home defense carbine, all mounted forward, to help dampen muzzle jump(the AK muzzle brake helps to). The results are a carbine that can be set up for anything from a night time/defensive carbine(red dot and light and no recoil/muzzle climb), to a 100 yds bench gun/varminter(remove dot/light and add 3-9x scope), or just a light fast day time carbine with iron sights only(add removable carry handle, remove everthing else)...All transformations can be done in less than a minute or two. Aren't Rails great!!!

PS-A short barrel will generate less velocity, so the bullet(s) will travel less and have less energy to do secondary damage outside it's intended target area. Especially after hitting a wall or two, or hopefully the B/G...

Too Many Choices!?(and the AR-15 should definitely be one of them)...
 
I think a pistol-chambered carbine, anywhere from 9mm to .44 Magnum is a fine choice. It has enough power for terminal effect, but can be fired much more accurately than a handgun, and will have milder report and recoil than a 12 gauge or a deer rifle. The two factors always stressed are placement and followup shots, and a light carbine is a great performer in both those areas. One advantage of a handgun if you have children though is that they are more easily safed than a long gun.
 
+1 to CC here.

9mm carbine in the form of a CX4 Storm Beretta is my favorite choice as an alternative to my 12 GA pump. It is deadly accurate, low recoil, and I know exactly where all my shots are going. Plus with the rail system I can attach lasers and flashlights to make HD easier.
 
Duxman

I have done just that with my Storm, RedDot sight and forward lighting under the barrel. I also keep a mag loaded with 135grn low velocity hydroshocks. Hopefully that will do it. The Storm is accurate and more so with the RedDot, as well as balanced and due to its size very manuverable. I would grab the Storm well before a shotgun.
 
What ever you choose, please take a home clearing course with that weapon or something of the same size.

A few months ago I took a private class about clearing homes with a shotgun that a friend of mine was holding, he is in ERT (Ermergency response team) for the Tampa PD.

Clearing a house with a shotgun is tricky, especially when clearing around corners, you dont want to have the gun exposed because you dont want someone grabbing it from your blindsides, also you dont want to have it up or down, because someone can run to you and grab it, rendering the gun useless.

The best (in my opinion) home clearing class I took was with a knife. They (a good instructor) teach you how to use your weapon as if it was part of your body, really good stuff.

Some of you might remember my thread about going into condition black, well a good instructor teaches you how to try to avoid that, what i was told is that when i feel myself going into condition black, to just get down behind something using a wall or somehting else as support for my body and cover myself while breathing deeply until i regain control of my body.
 
I22,

I repectfully disagree...My AR15pistol(PDW), has less felt recoil than a 9mm carbine, has both advantages of the carbine and pistol(only ~24" long), can be shot like a hand gun(icoseles position, even with the heavy barrel + 30 rounder:)), and can be shot like an AOW(with a hand on the mag well), or like a carbine with shoulder to buffer tube(but can be painfull if I don't get under the coller bone into that ,"pocket", of my upper pec muscle and shoulder)...

So go out and buy/build your own PDW AR-15 Pistol!! With a 10 1/2" H-bar, it really sucks up recoil and muzzle jump.

I guess I cheated while answering the posted question, since I use a .223 carbine(Bushie M4), as well as a .223 caliber pistol/carbine(PDW), , and two handguns(oh and don't forget the Ak hiding behind my underwear :)...

My AR-pistol is the Bushmaster M4's side kick, and a soon as I figure out how to conceal it, it will become my,"Concealed Carry For Winter:)", bump in the night duty weapon, plus my car gun; replacing the Glock .40(which I will get to concealed carry now that it's winter, Hooray:))...I am thinking,"Tactical Scabard", either," Ninja-style" , on the back, or ,"Samurai-style", weak side cross draw for the PDW, with Glock 23 strong side at about 4 O'clock....Just need a Trench Coat now(lol), and I am ready for any Texas-style SHTF. Idiot with an AK , I can grab the PDW outta the car...More mundane threat(street thug), yet still life threatening, run with what I got on me, the Glock 23 in .40 or the Millinium Taurus .45...

PS-I sleep with my PDW-AR-Pistol or M4(locked loaded,safety on, next to or in bed always) , MY Glock 23(holstered in a Fobus w 15+1 rounder) on me or in a drawer(loaded), or my Taurus(off safe, chambered, and under the pillow with 11 rounds).

(isn't having)Too Many Choices!?(great!:D)
 
I'm glad I found this post. There are a lot of good points being made, even if some of them are conflicting. I never thought about a hostage situation.

I am still partial to my .45 rather than my shotty due to manuverability. I don't have any kiddies yet so I don't have to worry about others outside of my room. If I was barricading myself in, I would go with the shotty. If I was clearing the house (I know many think this equals suicide) I would use the .45. I think it is crazy to call the cavalry everytime you hear a bump in the night. My dog will usually confirm if there is an intruder or not by either barking her head off or dragging in their badly mauled cadaver.

As for my AR-15, I gave the HBAR with the 20" barrel. I have a full stock so I face the same problem as the 870 for manuverability. I know any of the guns fired without hearing protection will be loud, but the .223 really makes a lot of noise.

Even though the AR is probably my 3rd or 4th choice, I do keep it loaded with the Hornady TAPs which were previously mentioned. They are loaded with V-Max varmit rounds which have a plastic ballistic tip covering a nasty hollow point. I haven't shot anyone with these (or anything else thank God) but I imagine that they make a nasty wound. The V-Max offer less penetration but should shread whatever it does come in contact with.

I hope none of us ever end up in this kind of situation. As already stated, work harder at keeping the bad guys out and you won't have to worry about these kinds of scenarios as much.
 
OH yeah, I22,

I ,'Open Carry', at home, as their is no law requiring concealed carry in the house:)...

PS- I have no kids, and no desire to have someone constantly draining my gun fund. So no,"Girlfriend", in the traditional sense of the word either. I do have associates, and they know my guns come first;) ...
 
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