Cannot decide on carry gun. New guy here

One of the options for carry I really like is my T shirt holsters. I buy them from a guy here in NC and they are excellent. Good quality shirts that don't stretch with use. The 'holster' is sewn in under the left arm pit and can accomodate a full size auto. I normally carry a Bersa .380 or Taurus M85 in it during the summer with button from shirts. I can have the two top most buttons undone and gun out within a few seconds.
 
If you want a gun you can practice often with I would suggest getting something a little bit bigger. I have a pocket carry gun (Kahr PM9), but I would not call it a gun that I like to shoot often at the range and the guns you mentioned are even a little bit smaller. If I were you I would at least look into IWB carry. Even if you move up to something like a glock 26 or XDsc or something else along those lines you will have a much easier time using them as a range gun.
 
Out of the two you picked. The 709 is a lot better gun than the kel tek IMHO. I have shot both the 709 felt better in my hand and had a better trigger.
 
I have been pocket carrying a Kahr PM9 for a few months now and I really like it. The trigger is like a really good light double action revolver. The gun is very light and recoil is very well controlled. I also live in Florida so I know what you are going through. Anything outside the waistband is too easy to accidentally flash. Unless you wear your shirts untucked, even inside the waistband is hard to conceal. I say save up a little and try to find a good used PM9.
 
Concealment T shirt

These are the ones I've used. The T shirt material is very thick and durable. It's made that way specifically to maintain shape with the added weight of a firearm.

http://nextholster.com/gun_t-shirts

While browsing the net recently I've run across a number of new options for this year, including a holster T shirt in UnderArmor. Do a google search on "t shirt holster" and you'll find quite a few options.
 
stephen- which holster exactly are you using? I think Ive fallen in love with the PM9 after all the reviews and such Ive read. Youtube has helped a lot with the various videos people have mad. Where abouts in FL are you?

I also took the advise of another member in this thread and signed up for my CWP class 2-20 :). Im excited.
 
I definitely agree that a pocket gun will not be very enjoyable to shoot a lot.

9mm is a good caliber to start with, it's the most economical caliber (other than .22).

I would suggest shooting a fair amount before deciding on what you want.

Many of us have found that we can carry and conceal a decent sized gun with a loose tee shirt.
 
The Kel-Tec 9mm, although the smallest and lightest available, is still bigger and at least 50% heavier than the LCP fully loaded, and IMHO would still not be a comfortable pocket carry if you are anywhere near "normal" size (200 lbs or less). I guess if you're 300+ lbs, the extra weight wouldn't matter that much. With a decent pocket holster, the LCP is very easy to carry and conceal, much like the other very small .380s (P3-AT, TCP, P380, etc.).
 
My 1st gun was a Taurus PT140 .40 I did have some issues that were resolved. It's a compact gun but a little to big to conceal. After looking around for a smaller gun I found the Ruger LCP. It was recommended by a couple of people that own one. I have used it once and shot about 50 shots. I think it is a great gun and easy to conceal I purchased an inside waist holster and it makes it super easy to carry around. I never carried my PT140 because I didn't want people to notice it.So I keep my .40 for home defence and my 380 for personal defense. Since I purchased my LCP last week I haven't left it at home once. I would definitely recommend this gun to every one.
 
I really want a Ruger LCP- but the ammo scarcity bothers me along with the cost of it. This is why Im leaning more toward 9MM. Sigh- why is 380 so hard to come by???
 
I find even my PF-9 to be a little too big for me to pocket carry.

The P-11 would be even harder.

IMO the LCP P3AT are about as big as I can conceal in my pocket.
 
I really want a Ruger LCP- but the ammo scarcity bothers me along with the cost of it. This is why Im leaning more toward 9MM. Sigh- why is 380 so hard to come by???
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I probably have a thousand rounds of .380 that have been sitting here for ten years.:D Half handloads, half Kazakastani, and a box of WWB.

Ammunition To Go has S&B fmj available. S&B is decent ammo. I certainly do not recommend JHP in .380. It doesn't have enough energy to penetrate, much less expand and penetrate.

However, I don't consider a .380, especially out of a short barrel, to be a good self defense caliber. It's a gun ONLY for when you wouldn't carry something better.
 
I certainly do not recommend JHP in .380. It doesn't have enough energy to penetrate, much less expand and penetrate.
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That may have been true at one time, but the tests I've seen of Hornady's Critical Defense 90gr .380 show excellent expansion. Now, let me state that I've not seen any actual shooting evidence that would indicate performance, good or bad. However I've had very good success with Hornady components and believe they could produce a bullet that would perform at .380 velocities. There is a video on youtube somewhere showing a Critical Defense .380 going through a pig rib into ballistic gel and the expansion and penetration are very impressive.
 
That may have been true at one time, but the tests I've seen of Hornady's Critical Defense 90gr .380 show excellent expansion. Now, let me state that I've not seen any actual shooting evidence that would indicate performance, good or bad.
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Oh, I don't doubt that it expands....and that's the problem.

.380, even in FMJ, has marginal penetration. It if expands, the expansion process robs energy, which reduces penetration even more! Furthermore, an expanded round will then penetrate even less.:( Bottom line, if I'm using .380, I do not want to trade it's limited penetration for even more shallow penetration which will happen if it expands.

If you read the FBI report on wounding ballistics, penetration deep enough to hit something vital is critical. I believe that report and feel that an expanded .380 round will have way too shallow of penetration to make a quick stop.

Read the FBI report. Look at the shallow penetration of an expanded .380 round. It's not a good choice, IMO.

I think the expansion capabilities of modern .380 ammo is driven by marketing, not effectiveness!
 
I think the expansion capabilities of modern .380 ammo is driven by marketing, not effectiveness!
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I think you're right. Which is why I've decided to use hardball in my .380. An additional plus is that most pistols perform at their peak in terms of reliability with hardball.
 
Afboy143,

I am in Miami. I use a Desantis Gunhide pocket holster, size 02. This is a generic holster that works for small semi-autos or small revolvers. I added a Crimson Trace laser that attaches to the trigger guard. I had to modify the holster a bit to fit the new contour. It was really easy though since I can somewhat sew. It took me less than 15 mintues.

I totally agree with your decision to go with 9mm. .380 acp ammo is more expensive and harder to find than 9mm. It is also weaker by a fair amount. There are some very small .380's though.

The Kahr is actually very pleasent to shoot and recoil is not bad since it is a 9mm. I have heard the PM40 is a lot harder on the hands. The polymer frame and stainless slide are perfect for Florida's hot and humid weather. Good luck!
 
I have had good luck with my P-11, accurate and 100% reliable with numerous hollow points I have used. My friend has the P40 and has also had excellent performance. The only drawback is the heavy DAO trigger and it takes a bit more practice to master.
 
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